Winnipeg | True North Square | 86.9M | 77.8M | 25F | 17F | 22F | 17F | 19F | U/C

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

How is Halifax relevant to this thread? They have 1/2 the population of Winnipeg, and the only bright spot in an economically depressed region.

And no Funnelator.

[esquire]

Compare what has been built in Winnipeg as opposed to Halifax over the past 15 years. End of discussion. You're getting desperate to keep your narrative going, recluse.

[Biff]

Next page.

[The Unknown Poster]

If Chipman is building TNS (as well as being involved with Centre point) out of civic pride, then he's a hell of a man. Elect him Mayor. Better yet, appoint him Emperor of Winnipeg.

Wouldnt the Sutton project be tailor made for NHL players and management (luxury furnished apartments, attached to the arena)? I could see the team controlling a bank of rooms for their staff/players/VIP's etc. And if you're a young player either single or without children, its a great spot.

[bomberjet]

Chipman is doing absolutely zero out of civic pride. He is doing it for the payday.

[CoryB]

It is somewhat interesting that TNS includes a residential tower thought to be condos that has had no public pre-sale. If it is condos seems to hint it might be marketed privately towards targeted individuals (ie young professional hockey players).

Also don't kid yourself if you think Chipman is doing this purely for altruistic reasons. The SHED gets a nice tax kickback from the City and basically having a vice grip on parking, food and drink near the arena ensures that as many of the arena related dollars are going into Chipmans pocket.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is somewhat interesting that TNS includes a residential tower thought to be condos that has had no public pre-sale. If it is condos seems to hint it might be marketed privately towards targeted individuals (ie young professional hockey players).

Also don't kid yourself if you think Chipman is doing this purely for altruistic reasons. The SHED gets a nice tax kickback from the City and basically having a vice grip on parking, food and drink near the arena ensures that as many of the arena related dollars are going into Chipmans pocket.

Yes. I have no doubt Chipman loves his city and is community minded. But he's not risking this kind of money for civic pride. Its a win-win.

He's building a family dynasty. And hopefully a Stanley Cup one too!

[BigG]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Yes. I have no doubt Chipman loves his city and is community minded. But he's not risking this kind of money for civic pride. Its a win-win.

He's building a family dynasty. And hopefully a Stanley Cup one too!

Yes, and in my mind, there is absolutey nothing wrong with that.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by CoryB

It is somewhat interesting that TNS includes a residential tower thought to be condos that has had no public pre-sale. If it is condos seems to hint it might be marketed privately towards targeted individuals (ie young professional hockey players).

Also don't kid yourself if you think Chipman is doing this purely for altruistic reasons. The SHED gets a nice tax kickback from the City and basically having a vice grip on parking, food and drink near the arena ensures that as many of the arena related dollars are going into Chipmans pocket.

There are no condos at TNS, it’s a mixed use apartment building.

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bu...442394003.html
By: Martin Cash
Posted: 08/31/2017

The 24-storey residential tower at 225 Carlton St. also will include two floors of retail and four floors of office. Apartment sizes will range from 500-square-foot, one-bedroom units — likely starting somewhere above $1,000 per month — to penthouse suites. It will open in the spring of 2019, but pre-marketing will begin next fall.

[Biff]

I'm not sure I understand this sentiment that because there is low interest in new office space and existing capacity that sits empty in the market, that no new buildings should be constructed. This view makes sense as a whole if you are looking at the better good of the downtown - wanting to have all vacancies full.

If I am a businessman and I believe that I can offer a better product (TNS) and take clients from other facilities and make money I will build a new building. Leasing agents for the buildings loosing tenants might not like this but business is tough. Too much in this town rely on same-old same-old in not improving their investment. Richardson and Artis are bucking that trend by investing significant dollars in upgrades to their buildings. 201 Portage...not so much and they are loosing tenants. So be it.

[Urban recluse]

Originally Posted by Authentic_City

Setting aside the issue of demand for office space, you can't be seriously suggesting that Chipman is doing this as some type of civic charity project? Let's all be clear here: Chipman is in this to make money, and he has obviously determined that revitalizing and developing the area around the arena will increase the value of his asset. This is not motivated by pure altruism. What Pollard is doing on Main Street may well be an act of charity, but not a project of this scale.

I did not say it was a charitable act, but to think this tower is needed is foolish.

[Wpg_Guy]

Originally Posted by Biff

I'm not sure I understand this sentiment that because there is low interest in new office space and existing capacity that sits empty in the market, that no new buildings should be constructed. This view makes sense as a whole if you are looking at the better good of the downtown - wanting to have all vacancies full.

If I am a businessman and I believe that I can offer a better product (TNS) and take clients from other facilities and make money I will build a new building. Leasing agents for the buildings loosing tenants might not like this but business is tough. Too much in this town rely on same-old same-old in not improving their investment. Richardson and Artis are bucking that trend by investing significant dollars in upgrades to their buildings. 201 Portage...not so much and they are loosing tenants. So be it.

Chipman gets a lot of credit for spearheading these developments but financially Artis is a 50% stakeholder in Centrepoint and the Richardsons have a 50% investment in TNS. The big players are not sitting idly by theyre investing in the new projects while upgrading their existing buildings.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

I did not say it was a charitable act, but to think this tower is needed is foolish.

If they secured the tenants to fill this building to the level they require to justify its being built - then how are you to argue it isn't "needed"?

There is obviously a market in Winnipeg for businesses that wanted to be in some swanky new digs - rather than in tired old office space that the owner wasn't keeping up.

Like Biff said, if the owners of the towers at P&M are going to compete with TNS, they need to get off their wallet and improve their buildings. It's safe to say that 360 Main did just that.

A little competition is not hurting anyone here.

[esquire]

^ Exactly. The market has already made the decision as to whether the new towers are needed or not. Some of us are just in a state of denial over it.

[Jammon]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Exactly. The market has already made the decision as to whether the new towers are needed or not. Some of us are just in a state of denial over it.

*ding, ding* [points to nose]

I'm not sure why people are so quick to compare Winnipeg to Halifax or Edmonton. There is no comparison to Halifax. If anyone has been there, you would know that the entire Atlantic region is struggling economically. Growth in Halifax is nice, but the only thing sustaining it is the small amount of immigration they receive from abroad and Atlantic relocation from other depressed Atlantic provinces. It's akin to robbing Peter to pay Paul. I love the east coast, but there is no denying the region is struggling.

Edmonton, on the other hand, always lagged in development compared to Calgary. Only in the last few years has Edmonton actually landed some nice developments. Otherwise, you could argue that the city was in a state of stasis for some time. I go to Edmonton a lot for work and I have not seen that skyline change for 10+ years. The last few years have been significant for new developments and I think it's great for that city because they have always been seen as Calgary's poor cousin.

Winnipeg is plugging along. You need to infill first before you start on mega-projects. I would personally rather see multiple small projects to fill some of the empty land and derelict buildings than some mega tower that isn't really needed yet. Keep building the population and building smaller projects and the rest will come in time.

[bomberjet]

I think we'd all agree a downtown filled with ~6 storey buildings would be much better than having nothing but the odd mega tower. Although they are nice to have on the skyline.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by Jammon

There is no comparison to Halifax. If anyone has been there, you would know that the entire Atlantic region is struggling economically.

There's talk of Nova Scotia following Detroit into bankruptcy a few years down the road. Largely due to an aging population, the highest senior-to-child ratio in Canada.

[CoryB]

I think the whole discussion on office space being over capacity spun out of a suggestion that new mid-rise office buildings be built on the old stadium site and I replied it would be a dumb move on speculation as there is too much space available. Vacant spaces of course give people in the market power to pressure lease rates down to points that make it hard to cover the costs of new buildings. As TNS is viewed as a prestige location tenants were willing to pay more and significant work was done before construction to land tenants.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I think we'd all agree a downtown filled with ~6 storey buildings would be much better than having nothing but the odd mega tower. Although they are nice to have on the skyline.

I'm not sure that's necessarily preferable. When there's little change in the skyline to a city it creates the impression that it's not a growing city (or possibly shrinking in population). Even if that's not the case it can still be perceived that way. That can cause people to think that nothing is happening here and they might want to move elsewhere. It also can make it difficult to attract people or business to relocate to Winnipeg if there is the impression that it's not a growing city. It may be inaccurate to make judgements based on a city's skyline but it does happen. People will believe change is happening downtown if they can see it in the skyline from a distance. If all they notice is the towers at Portage and Main they may just think nothing much has changed in 30 years.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I think the whole discussion on office space being over capacity spun out of a suggestion that new mid-rise office buildings be built on the old stadium site and I replied it would be a dumb move on speculation as there is too much space available. Vacant spaces of course give people in the market power to pressure lease rates down to points that make it hard to cover the costs of new buildings. As TNS is viewed as a prestige location tenants were willing to pay more and significant work was done before construction to land tenants.

I'd love to hear how you took my comments about a mixed use office area eventually taking root north of Polo Park as literally meaning that someone should start building now, under current market conditions and totally on spec.