London Public Transit

GreatTallNorth2 · #1 Posted **May 12, 2008, 1:26 PM**

I wanted to start a thread on London Transit, mainly dealing with future plans for the system. I don't know about you, but I am a little underwhelmed by London Transits future plans. They are talking about Bus Rapid Transit, but really it is just enhanced bus service. No right of way and no stations. Anyways, I thought I would share a letter that I wrote to our mayor, our controllers, city councillors and LFP editor and the responses.

Dear Annie Marie Decicco Best,

I wish to inform you that London, Ontario is once again "missing the train" by not planning right now for a rapid light rail transit system. Just look at every other city in Ontario our size or larger and you will find that they are in the planning stages and beyond in building rapid light rail systems in their cities. Take for example the cities of Kitchener/Waterloo/: this area has been planning a light rail system for several years now at the cost of $300 million. It will probably be in operation in five years or less.

http://transitea.region.waterloo.on.ca/

Where will Kitchener get the money to build this system, you ask? The province has committed to paying two-thirds the cost of building it and the province is asking the federal government to pay for the balance. That means the entire capital cost of Kitchener's light rail transit system will be paid for by the upper levels of government. Similar projects will take place all over the province in Toronto, Mississauga, Hamilton and York Region. All of these projects are being funded by a government initiative called Move Ontario 2020.

http://www.premier.gov.on.ca/news/Pr...ProductID=1383

My question to you, Anne Marie, is this: When is London going to come up with a solid plan to build a similar system and why would you allow the province and federal government to build Kitchener a light rail system and not want the same for the citizens of London?

London Transit is in the planning stages of what they call a "Bus Rapid Transit" system. They are correct that it is a bus system, but "rapid" it is not. It is not rapid because it does not have "right of way" or dedicated roads for buses. It also does not have real station stops. The proposal I have read makes me embarrassed to be a Londoner and it will not get people out of their cars and onto transit.

I hear catch phrases used in our city such as "London is a creative city" and "London is progressive" and I have to scratch my head. The only London I know that is creative and progressive is the one across the pond.

Anne Marie, the time is now to start action on light rail. Gas prices are rising and Londoners want real solutions to our transportation problems. Tomorrow, the money will not be handed out by the province and the system we wish we had will cost four times as much. We lost out thirty years ago in building a proper expressway system (unlike Kitchener). Please ensure we don't lose out again.

Yours truly,
XXX

Response #1
Mr XXXX
Thank-you for your comments. As Ward 4 Councillor I would like to hear more about the funding by other levels of government. I think you should appear in front of the Environment and Transportation Committee to explain more. I will forward your email to the ETC secretary to contact you to set a time for your appearance if you are interested in speaking to us about this matter.

Best. Wishes

STEPHEN ORSER
Councillor, Ward 4

Response #2
Hi Stephen,

Perhaps Mr. XXXX would like to read the final report of the LTC Long Term Working Group's final report which will be coming before Council through ETC in the next few weeks. The report will also refer to funding from other levels of government and we, in fact, had a presentation from Kitchener/Waterloo last yaer about what they had done. Thanks.

Nancy
Nancy Branscombe

City Councillor - Ward 6
London, Ontario

Response #3
Dear Mr. XXX,
Greetings! Thanks for your note. Let me assure you, we have not missed the train. We are on top of it. It is a matter of timing, population, size and growth. We are getting there and are planning for it. As the Chair of the LTC I will refer your letter to Mr. Larry Ducharme, the LTC General Manager, who I noticed you copied.

If you wish to review our plans I or Mr. Ducharme or a member of his planning staff would be happy to review them with you.

Warmest personal regards,

Harold Usher, P.Eng., DTM
Councillor Ward 12
Chair London Transit Commission

LondnPlanr · #2 Posted **May 12, 2008, 1:56 PM**

In short, well done.

Make sure you follow up with your responses, and yes, take up Harold on his offer to review their 'plans'. Cripes, I'll join you!

Get in touch with me via personal message if you want.

MolsonExport · #3 Posted **May 12, 2008, 2:05 PM**

Well done. I am with you on these arguments.

worldwide · #4 Posted **May 12, 2008, 10:01 PM**

im just finishing up my diploma here in vancouver that would allow me to qualify for jobs as a planning assistant or planning tech. im seriously considering looking for a planning job in london, preferably with london transit, or at city hall. what do you guys think my chances would be? and do you think that a job in planning in london would be a good alternative to working out west? i really like london and i know the city very well. i would love to lern more about the city and help it progress into the future.

GreatTallNorth2 · #5 Posted **May 13, 2008, 1:39 PM**

Well, I got a great response from Anne Marie herself. It shows that she did not read the email.

Response from Mayor Anne Marie
Hi XXX:

In fact, we have supported efforts and plans with our colleague cities for rapid transit between the Windsor to Quebec corridor. I agree, it is the way of the future, and hopefully, both the provincial and federal governments will work toward building it.

Sincerely,

Anne Marie DeCicco-Best
Mayor

flar · #6 Posted **May 13, 2008, 1:42 PM**

I've never had high hopes for transit in London. So many of London's little club of "leaders" simply don't care about public transit.

worldwide · #7 Posted **May 13, 2008, 4:58 PM**

hahaha that is too funny GTN2

FazDeH · #8 Posted **May 14, 2008, 10:34 PM**

You know I've been as questioning of Londons leadership as most on this forum, but I've actually had a chance to sit down and talk with the Mayor recently, and one thing I asked her was about transit as I use it, and the area of the city I live in doesn't have good transit coverage.
She said the city does have a short term plan to expand coverage and that an LRT line is something they are considering, the expense for such a project however is why they have kept it simply on the city planning room floor.
That statement resulted in alot of questions from me, mostly about inovation and partnership with the private sector to reduce the cities finacnial commitment to which I got a big "well that's something we've been considering" . I have to admit that the conversation left me still with questions, but sadly the mayor had to continue serving tables. It's really funny having the mayor of the city bring you a beer, if any of you want to exeperience that you should try Friday Night Lights, Saturdays shes there and its generally slow so she actually has time to chat, and she didn't seem to mind as I tried to be as polite as possible without saying "Why is the city doing NOTHING to prepair for the future?!"

GreatTallNorth2 · #9 Posted **May 15, 2008, 12:32 PM**

I am sure that Anne Marie is a nice person. I talked to her several years back and she was indeed friendly. The problem, however, is that she does not possess the qualities of a leader.

After she emailed me, I sent her a response telling her that she did not read my message properly. She then sent me another email (yesterday) saying that she misunderstood my original message, but that Nancy Branscombe was looking into the situation regarding transit. Contrast that with Kitchener's mayor. He has been at the forefront leading Kitchener to a place where LRT is probably going to happen soon. Our politicians are not stepping up and making noise about good transit. They don't even know what good transit is. Instead, we spend our time talking about the small, petty issues at City Hall.

MolsonExport · #10 Posted **May 15, 2008, 1:03 PM**

The city definitely needs a change of leadership and vision.

ssiguy · #11 Posted **May 18, 2008, 4:00 PM**

I think the first thing london Transit should do is extend the late-night routes. Midnight is ridiculous especially for a university/college town like London and we live in a much different world than 1970.
Not all routes have to be later but maybe the 10 busiest or so running til atleast 1:30, preferably 2:00, epecially on the weekends.

FazDeH · #12 Posted **May 19, 2008, 2:17 PM**

^^^ I completely agree about extending the bus schedules. I could think of at least 4 or 5 bus routes that the city should have late hours for. I think it would be a cheap substitution to cabbing for the public, lets face it, if you go downtown on a Friday or Saturday night, getting home is the last thing you want to worry about, but there are so few options. And I think it would help reduce the problem of drinking and driving, so the police would have less to worry about.
Major bus routes should have a last bus leave downtown by 2:30am, I think that would be really well recieved. The Richmond, Oxford east, Kipps, Wellington, Westmount to name afew. Basically the most used student buses, maybe even at a reduced rate... something to think about.

worldwide · #13 Posted **May 19, 2008, 7:45 PM**

the 9A and 9B whitehills should run until midnight instead of finishing at ~7pm and no service on sundays.

and then the 6 richmond could just turn into the 9C at UWO from midnight to about 2 or 3 am

also the 19 should run a bit later than it currently does, and the 17 needs much more frequent service.

ldoto · #14 Posted **May 28, 2008, 11:09 PM**

Wed, May 28, 2008

London commuters frustrated with parking downtown will soon have a new option.

The City of London and London Transit have joined forces to offer a $50 monthly park-and-ride pass.

Beginning June 1, Londoners will be able to park their vehicles at a municipal parking lot located north of Dundas Street and take a bus downtown.

“The city has a supply issue of long-term parking close to the core area,” said Larry Ducharme, general manager at the London Transit Commission.

Long term means parking a vehicle for eight hours, or the length of a work day.

Commuters can leave their car in one of the two parking lots with access from English Street, Elizabeth Street, Adelaide Street and Queens Avenue. They can then board a bus on Dundas Street between English and Ridout Streets on routes 2 Dundas, 7 Wavell and 20 Cherryhill anytime from Monday to Sunday.

A London business manager said the program should help the weekday parking crunch downtown.

“Anything that can alleviate the problem of parking downtown during the week is positive,” said Bob Usher, manager of the Covent Garden Market and London Downtown Business Association board member.

Participants will be issued a special parking and transit pass. They will be able to claim the federal tax credit for the bus pass portion of the expense.

The park and ride will be a pilot program for a few months to gauge interest. The pass will be continued if there is a good response, said city parking manager Shane Maguire.

The program was motivated by a 2006 city parking study that highlighted a need for more long-term parking downtown.

“A number of long-term parking spots in the downtown have been lost in the last year to construction and other development,” said Maguire.

The park-and-ride may have spin-off benefits for the surrounding Old East area. The manager of the Old East Village business improvement area said she will be watching the program with interest.

“It remains to be seen if the people parking their cars will come into the Old East commercial corridor,” said Sarah Merritt. “Anything that brings people into the area can only be of use to us.”

MolsonExport · #15 Posted **May 29, 2008, 3:56 AM**

Egads, I read this somewhere else!

upinottawa · #16 Posted **May 29, 2008, 8:18 PM**

If London was to build a light rail line, from where to where would it run? If the light rail vehicles were to run in mixed traffic there would be more options than if the vehicles were intended to run in separate lanes. However, if the LRVs operated in separate lanes (and I do not mean grade separated), the system would be more effective and could draw better ridership numbers.

That being said, I could not imagine London politicians (and the electorate) supporting the coversion of two lanes on Richmond, Dundas or Oxford to exclusive use by LRVs. Also, I could not imagine London politicians supporting a line from downtown to UWO/Masonville (such a line would be heavily used during the 26 weeks of university classes, but would receive light traffic during exams and the summer).

Anyone have in mind a proposed route that could be politically feasible?

Koolfire · #17 Posted **May 30, 2008, 2:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by upinottawa

If London was to build a light rail line, from where to where would it run? If the light rail vehicles were to run in mixed traffic there would be more options than if the vehicles were intended to run in separate lanes. However, if the LRVs operated in separate lanes (and I do not mean grade separated), the system would be more effective and could draw better ridership numbers.

That being said, I could not imagine London politicians (and the electorate) supporting the coversion of two lanes on Richmond, Dundas or Oxford to exclusive use by LRVs. Also, I could not imagine London politicians supporting a line from downtown to UWO/Masonville (such a line would be heavily used during the 26 weeks of university classes, but would receive light traffic during exams and the summer).

Anyone have in mind a proposed route that could be politically feasible?

Yes, It would be a matter of making a deal with CN. Their lines would give you access to the South, Northwest, NorthEast (Airport and Fanshawne if you go up Highbury and the East on Oxford to the Airport) and the Southeast. So spots are too narrow to build two tracks and a little property acquisition might be needed. It's not going to drop you off a Dundas and Richmond but a frequent bus loop would do fine. And when the time is right you build a North to Southwest Metro. Calgary's first line started with a deal with CP.

GreatTallNorth2 · #18 Posted **May 30, 2008, 12:35 PM**

I think the best way to get light rail in London is to start with this question: how do we get the CN or CP tracks outside the city? If we could accomplish this, it would be a double blessing. We could remove the headaches of long trains running through the centre of the city and replace them with light rail trains moving passengers in the city. This idea would take a strong willed visionary in the mayor's city...something we do not have.

MolsonExport · #19 Posted **May 30, 2008, 1:57 PM**

London today:
No freeways, no LRT.
Extreme amounts of development on the periphery.
Dead-end major arteries (Wellington, Sarnia Road, Gainsborough/Windermere)

London tomorrow:
Gridlock.

manny_santos · #20 Posted **Jun 1, 2008, 2:15 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreatTallNorth2

I think the best way to get light rail in London is to start with this question: how do we get the CN or CP tracks outside the city? If we could accomplish this, it would be a double blessing. We could remove the headaches of long trains running through the centre of the city and replace them with light rail trains moving passengers in the city. This idea would take a strong willed visionary in the mayor's city...something we do not have.

There is a proposal that was produced in the 1970s that would have routed freight rail traffic outside of the city, and created rapid transit corridors. One copy of it can be found on the main floor of Weldon Library. Very interesting stuff, which also included various road widening proposals - some of which have YET to be built!