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  #4941  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 4:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
These urban infill projects are great and sure they'd be better with street level retail or commercial space, but that doesn't change that they're great projects none the less,
They're not great. They're mediocre. Car culture has lowered people's expectations for pedestrian-oriented development.
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  #4942  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 6:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Or they'll just walk or bike to St. Paul Square or Southtown or downtown or further. Ii mean geez, I think the doom and gloom you're imagining is a bit much.
Sirkingwilliam, there is a pattern with SOME of the forum members on this website. And THEY always have a "doom and gloom" attitude about any new development in San Antonio. These people NEVER have anything positive to say about any new development in town. SOOOOO, I think THEY are called "haters"? I believe this is "the word" to use in this NEW ERA of OUR WORLD!
And WE just RESIST and IGNORE!!!!!

And remember, I MENTIONED NO NAMES!

And just MY HUMBLE OPINION.
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  #4943  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Every city developed after the world wars is a car centric city. Once the interstates were built and suburbs became a hit with families, car centric was the way of the future.

That doesn't change the fact that sure, they'll get in their car, but they aren't driving to stone oak or la canters every time. They'll drive to Southtown or the pearl or Alamo heights. Just like New Yorkers drive to other areas. Just like people in Washington DC drive to other places whether near or far. Just like Chicagoans drive to other areas. Just like Parisians drive. None of those dense. And urban cities are carless. San Antonio will never be carless. These urban infill projects are great and sure they'd be better with street level retail or commercial space, but that doesn't change that they're great projects none the less, because those residents will walk, bike, jog, drive, car pool, bus, uber, taxi, pedicab, barge their way to areas immediately surrounding them because those areas will attract them, for the same reason the housing attracted them.
It's easy to accept things the way they are. It takes a little effort to make things a little better. It takes some work to make things as good as possible. I don't mind having a positive attitude and doing a little hard work to do the things I do in the best way possible. I wish these developers had the same attitude.
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  #4944  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 8:39 PM
Bigfoot Yancey Bigfoot Yancey is offline
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
It's easy to accept things the way they are. It takes a little effort to make things a little better. It takes some work to make things as good as possible. I don't mind having a positive attitude and doing a little hard work to do the things I do in the best way possible. I wish these developers had the same attitude.
I tend to agree with you and also with the folks who are just happy with increased density. It would be nice if there was a policy focus on live work or first floor apartments with commercial capability. The fact is that we have so much space that is underutilized for commercial. Any one of these apartment developments has vacant or underutilized lots up and down both ways of the street. And frankly those developments with retail components have traditionally struggled to sign up and keep tenants.

I am game for housing/density focus until demand dictates need for first floor retail. Honestly most of this 3-4-5 story development is of such inferior quality that it is not built to last more that 40 years. Knowing that SA is probably 10-20 years behind other sunbelt cities in urban core development can you cite examples of cities who overbuilt on the residential side only to realize that they have failed in the retail/commercial/entertainment side? It is possible to have an interesting mix of higher density residential areas with dining/entertainment in nearby zones. From places I have lived I would consider Austin with the Rainey street area and Dallas with the Knox/Henderson area. Not exactly high urbanism I know, but where can you find that in cities with our development patterns?
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  #4945  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2017, 9:24 PM
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Consider: there is nothing preventing complexes like this from remodeling portions of the first floor later to suit ground level retail once population density demands it.
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  #4946  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2017, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigfoot Yancey View Post

It is possible to have an interesting mix of higher density residential areas with dining/entertainment in nearby zones. From places I have lived I would consider Austin with the Rainey street area and Dallas with the Knox/Henderson area. Not exactly high urbanism I know, but where can you find that in cities with our development patterns?
The Pearl and the future Lone Star development offer everything you mentioned. Also, Blue Star and the hundreds of apartments around it too.
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  #4947  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 3:53 PM
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I think an area that has a lot of potential is the intersection of S. Flores and E. Cevallos, where Nogalitos branches out. That interesting intersection has nice historic buildings that could all easily be turned into really cool restaurants, bars, retail, etc. It already has the Steel House Lofts and The Fruteria right near by. That location, with just a little bit more investment into that certain intersection could be a great gateway or heart of the SoFlo neighborhood, and spur more development further down S. Flores and further west on Cevallos. I'm just spit balling ideas since nothing has been posted in awhile.
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  #4948  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mklunder13 View Post
I think an area that has a lot of potential is the intersection of S. Flores and E. Cevallos, where Nogalitos branches out. That interesting intersection has nice historic buildings that could all easily be turned into really cool restaurants, bars, retail, etc. It already has the Steel House Lofts and The Fruteria right near by. That location, with just a little bit more investment into that certain intersection could be a great gateway or heart of the SoFlo neighborhood, and spur more development further down S. Flores and further west on Cevallos. I'm just spit balling ideas since nothing has been posted in awhile.
I like that!

Yeah it's been pretty quiet lately on here. Nothing major has been announced and nothing else has broken ground yet.
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  #4949  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jaga185 View Post
Yeah it's been pretty quiet lately on here. Nothing major has been announced and nothing else has broken ground yet.
Yep. I am doing my best at patiently (and hopefully) waiting for a (major) announcement.

Just not sure if CBD San Antonio is ripe for urban, vertical development (yet). We're getting passed up be several cities (in terms of average CBD building height).

Dallas is hot; Houston is warm; and we all know what Austin is (with two additional 30+ buildings moving forward this week in their entitlement process)...

There is a delicate symbiosis between office, residential and retail in CBDs around the country (leading to development booms - and overall mass of structures). One cannot rely solely on tourism.

I believe SA "might" be where Austin was in the late 1990's, prior to their current CBD boom. However, the economics do not quite match.

Major businesses do not seem to be "demanding" new downtown space and thus, demand for residential will not follow in as big of droves as it has in Dallas or Austin. If office and residents don't move downtown, then retail will hesitate a move into the area.

Again, I preface these comments based on a comparison of how the other major CBDs in Texas are growing relative to new building construction.
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  #4950  
Old Posted May 4, 2017, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ILUVSAT View Post
Yep. I am doing my best at patiently (and hopefully) waiting for a (major) announcement.

Just not sure if CBD San Antonio is ripe for urban, vertical development (yet). We're getting passed up be several cities (in terms of average CBD building height).

Dallas is hot; Houston is warm; and we all know what Austin is (with two additional 30+ buildings moving forward this week in their entitlement process)...

There is a delicate symbiosis between office, residential and retail in CBDs around the country (leading to development booms - and overall mass of structures). One cannot rely solely on tourism.

I believe SA "might" be where Austin was in the late 1990's, prior to their current CBD boom. However, the economics do not quite match.

Major businesses do not seem to be "demanding" new downtown space and thus, demand for residential will not follow in as big of droves as it has in Dallas or Austin. If office and residents don't move downtown, then retail will hesitate a move into the area.

Again, I preface these comments based on a comparison of how the other major CBDs in Texas are growing relative to new building construction.
1. There's also the nature of the economies. Some particular industries prefer downtown urban core office settings, whereas others don't. San Antonio happens to not have a lot of traditionally "downtown" industry.

2. San Antonio, unlike Austin and many other mid-size cities (Charlotte, Nashville, OKC, Richmond) who are currently experiencing building booms in their CBDs, has historically had VERY viable suburban high rise districts along freeways that have drowned out demand in the core (similarly to Houston and Dallas). San Antonio, thus, likely won't experience the kind of CBD redevelopment and intensity until it gets quite a bit larger (I.E. similarly to Houston and Dallas). Thankfully, San Antonio has history and tourism on its side to give some guidance and structure and to help maintain the downtown in the meantime.

Last edited by wwmiv; May 5, 2017 at 1:16 PM.
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  #4951  
Old Posted May 5, 2017, 11:27 AM
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Well it didn't take long for the Saint Motel folks to take that turd down on Travis Street.
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  #4952  
Old Posted May 5, 2017, 3:28 PM
mklunder13 mklunder13 is offline
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Could you remind me, which project is going on there?
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  #4953  
Old Posted May 5, 2017, 4:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mklunder13 View Post
Could you remind me, which project is going on there?
The Saint Hotel

*via rivard Report
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  #4954  
Old Posted May 5, 2017, 8:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jaga185 View Post
The Saint Hotel

*via rivard Report

The San Antonio location will only be the third one in the USA. There is one in New Orleans and one in Key West I believe. The owners obviously know the "major tourist cities"!!
The Saint Hotels are very unique, and obviously choose their locations in very "unique" cities. The Saint New Orleans, The Saint Key West, and soon The Saint San Antonio.....

And GO SAN ANTONIO SPURS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #4955  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 12:48 AM
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Saint San Antonio is redundant.

Just sayin'.
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  #4956  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by JACKinBeantown View Post
Saint San Antonio is redundant.

Just sayin'.
That's funny!

Jus saying!
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  #4957  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 5:21 AM
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Hadn't been paying attention for a while, didn't know Lula's had closed or that this was going up.

I sketched this exact spot on location back in 2010.

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  #4958  
Old Posted May 7, 2017, 9:07 PM
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The one thing I love about SA's downtown is its density. The potential is there...
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  #4959  
Old Posted May 8, 2017, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Boquillas View Post
Hadn't been paying attention for a while, didn't know Lula's had closed or that this was going up.
Lula's is in the Milam now, they just moved it
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  #4960  
Old Posted May 10, 2017, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by wwmiv View Post
1. There's also the nature of the economies. Some particular industries prefer downtown urban core office settings, whereas others don't. San Antonio happens to not have a lot of traditionally "downtown" industry.

2. San Antonio, unlike Austin and many other mid-size cities (Charlotte, Nashville, OKC, Richmond) who are currently experiencing building booms in their CBDs, has historically had VERY viable suburban high rise districts along freeways that have drowned out demand in the core (similarly to Houston and Dallas). San Antonio, thus, likely won't experience the kind of CBD redevelopment and intensity until it gets quite a bit larger (I.E. similarly to Houston and Dallas). Thankfully, San Antonio has history and tourism on its side to give some guidance and structure and to help maintain the downtown in the meantime.
I like this discussion and agree with your points. However, a lesser discussed effect of the thriving tourism industry maintaining Downtown San Antonio in the meantime is that the demand for hotels and tourism-oriented space is so high that it drives up prices for real estate Downtown. Conversely, the historically tepid demand for office and apartments (and the associated lower rents of those uses) means that buying land and developing for those uses doesn't pencil with the high cost of land.

In part because of this, we've seen the development of apartments and some office in the Downtown perimeter where land is cheaper. Only within the last few years have we had strides in those uses in the urban core proper (Houston St, not River North/Southtown), however that's primarily due to local developers with a larger mission than just short term returns have taken a risk on Downtown, even though technically it doesn't pencil near term.

Their risk has appeared to confirm that "if you build it, they will come."
Recent activity Downtown suggests that there is a latent demand for quality office space in the urban core.
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