Killed potential

newflyer · #1 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:26 AM**

In response to the Gerbasi granola clan .. and the rest of the anti-development gang I feel this thread is nessesary to mark all the killed developments.

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Playing 'Whack a Winnipeg'
By COLIN CRAIG

Remember the "whack a mole" carnival game at the Red River Ex? That's the game where a plastic mole pops up through a hole and you have to hit it on the head with a giant mallet.

Many developers and entrepreneurial ideas in Winnipeg have been treated a lot like the mole in recent years. It seems every time a good development idea comes along, it gets whacked on the head by the city, the province or the ever-present anti-development crowd.

Consider the recent proposal to build two new apartment towers on Whellams Lane in North Kildonan. That proposal would have seen a $50-million investment in our city generating approximately $500,000 in annual property taxes. As we're in the middle of an economic slowdown, most cities in North America are frothing at the mouth for that scale of development.

But due to opposition from a vocal "not in my backyard" crowd and a lack of council support, the proposal was pulled by the developer. Certainly some kind of compromise could have been worked out prior to that result. Not surprisingly, the developer is now looking at investing in Alberta or Saskatchewan. Whack! The Olywest pork plant proposal from a few years ago is another great example. That project would have invested $200 million in our city and created hundreds of new jobs. We all know what happened to that initiative. Whack!

Who could forget the idea of putting "condos in the parking lot." It was such a "green" development idea, even David Suzuki probably would have supported it. Had it proceeded, rarely used parking lot space at the south end of the zoo would have been turned into a small condo development. Proceeds from that project could have been used to fix up the park.

As we all know, shortly after the idea was floated, the anti-development crowd whipped people into a frenzy and began a fear-mongering campaign that the park's beautiful green space was going to get scarred by development all over the place. To this day, few people know that not a blade of park grass would have been uprooted by that proposal. Whack!

Perhaps the most surprising "whack" in recent years was against the proposal to build a new condo building beside the remains of Upper Fort Garry in downtown Winnipeg. After all, for decades, people have been clamouring for more condo and apartment units in the downtown area.

Even though the developer was extremely accommodating in preserving the existing ruins, people still found a problem with it. Suddenly Winnipeg needed a park downtown more than new condo units. Whack! Whack! Whack!

Were each of those projects perfect? Perhaps not, but consider the recent "bend over backwards" customer service that Ikea received from the city and provincial government. All kinds of capital upgrades like the widening of Kenaston are being sped up to help move the project along. It's probably fair to say that there have been dozens of phone calls and behind-the-scenes meetings to make that project move forward. If only other projects got that level of "let's make it work" support government and the "anti-development" crowd in this city. Hopefully it's a sign of times to come.

-- Colin Craig is the provincial director of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

JayM · #2 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:34 AM**

Yeah the amount of Projects that get killed in Winnipeg might as well be added to the Crime Stats for Murders!

newflyer · #3 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:35 AM**

With the newly proposed Forks .. it is only a matter of time....

All those granolas will fight tooth and nail to save those gravel surface parking lots. It seems like Winnipeg witnessed something similar to this last year with 100 Main.

Here we go again..

... by the way has anyone heard anything about the amazing park which was to have occupied that surface lot at 100 Main.

... while we are at it ... hope those granolas have been making good use of the unused surface lot at Assiniboine Park, instead of generating revenue to revitalize the greatly aged zoo.

newflyer · #4 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayM

Yeah the amount of Projects that get killed in Winnipeg might as well be added to the Crime Stats for Murders!

Murder of a different sort ..

JayM · #5 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:41 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by newflyer

With the newly proposed Forks .. it is only a matter of time....

All those granolas will fight tooth and nail to save those gravel surface parking lots. It seems like Winnipeg witnessed something similar to this last year with 100 Main.

Here we go again..

I totally liked the condo project for 100 Main, they still kept the surroundings as natural and as historic as possible. I would've stamped the OK without anyones approval. Sure hate mail would roll in but in the end it would've added a nice view and more downtown residence.

JayM · #6 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by newflyer

Murder of a different sort ..

Yeah get council on death row!

newflyer · #7 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:45 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayM

I totally liked the condo project for 100 Main, they still kept the surroundings as natural and as historic as possible. I would've stamped the OK without anyones approval. Sure hate mail would roll in but in the end it would've added a nice view and more downtown residence.

´

Don`t be ridiculous!! ... buildings don`t belong downtown.

JayM · #8 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by newflyer

´

Don`t be ridiculous!! ... buildings don`t belong downtown.

Oh my bad surface parking lots? And lots of them right?

newflyer · #9 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:49 AM**

Quote:

But due to opposition from a vocal "not in my backyard" crowd and a lack of council support, the proposal was pulled by the developer. Certainly some kind of compromise could have been worked out prior to that result. Not surprisingly, the developer is now looking at investing in Alberta or Saskatchewan. Whack!

Geee .... I have to actually applaud his efforts ... I wish him all the best.

Winnipeg`s loss... will be someone else`s gain.

newflyer · #10 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 5:53 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayM

Oh my bad surface parking lots? And lots of them right?

TONS

Surface lots.. for Granola`s!!

.... Butt scratcher!!! .. Butt scratcher!! (gotta love Family Guy!!)

JayM · #11 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 6:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by newflyer

TONS

Surface lots.. for Granola`s!!

.... Butt scratcher!!! .. Butt scratcher!! (gotta love Family Guy!!)

I bet they can publish a hardcover book about how many projects have been turned down in Winnipeg. Now try making one with projects that fell through and were built. sheesh!

newflyer · #12 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 6:23 AM**

Oh here we go!!!!

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NO THANKS TO HOUSING AT THE FORKS
Free Press readers who responded to a feedback opportunity are strongly opposed to the possibility of residential development at The Forks.
A Free Press story on Tuesday explained The Forks North Portage Partnership may transform a six-acre parking lot near The Forks into a mixed-use development. According to Jim August, CEO of the partnership that manages The Forks site, the development could include a mix of residential, office and commercial buildings.

The development would be built on a parking lot south of Canwest Park. It would feature a European-style promenade, a one-kilometre public walkway, including fountains and sitting areas, stretching from Pioneer Avenue to The Forks Market.

August said that no final decisions would be made before Winnipeggers are given the opportunity to weigh in through public consultations and open houses, but we decided to get started early.

The Free Press asked readers to email their thoughts on a possible residential development at The Forks. About 90 per cent of respondents were opposed to the initial suggestion:

I think that housing at The Forks is absolutely ridiculous! The powers at be (i.e. Jim August and company) must make it their mission in life to fill every piece of green space with something! Whatever happened to the original concept of The Forks which was to be a meeting place and a green space by the river? Wake up people! Don't sit back and let this happen!

-- Peggy Wilton

This is exactly the kind of development that the city needs. In a time when many of our politicians are loudly cheering for more suburban sprawl (read: Waverley West, IKEA), it's refreshing to see people like Mr. August working hard to breathe life back into our downtown. Thank you Mr. August!

-- Chris Schulz

Why can we not have a bit of open space here in Winnipeg? When visiting other cities, it is the parks and green areas that attract me, but I do have to be able to find a spot to put the car so that I can get out and enjoy them. I realize that our city seems to be on the lookout for any way to find new tax dollars but what fun is a concrete jungle? Green means grass and trees not office buildings and yet more shops. Leave well enough alone!

-- Elizabeth Deacon

We are not in agreement with the proposed mixed-use development at The Forks. The whole area is overrun already! The river walk is under water half of the warmer season and there is not sufficient parking as is, what with the baseball stadium and the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. We had visitors from Europe this Christmas, and they thought that there would be more space around The Forks, as they had been here a number of years ago, before the hotel was built! Their comment -- "Overcrowded."

-- Ingrid and Kurt Fischer

Your statement that "there has never been a residential component" is not correct. I was on the original planning team for The Forks when the site was an abandoned rail yard. In the original plan there definitely was a residential component, roughly in the same place as is shown on the photo accompanying your article.

-- Bob Foster P. Eng.

I would highly support adding some residential at The Forks and I'm sure the merchants of The Forks would support this as well. This can be a real demonstration of "new urbanism," promoting a real neighbourhood by downplaying the importance and need of an automobile. For those who fear losing green space, remember that the plan is on an existing gravel parking lot.

-- Brent Wagner

We used to come to Winnipeg on a regular basis to visit The Forks, now it's a chore to find parking. I guess rural residents will have to promote Fort Whyte and Oak Hammock more. Winnipeg is totally becoming a concrete jungle. Therefore, this household is totally against any further construction of any type at The Forks. It should be an area to enjoy in peace.

-- The Fletts, Selkirk

For those who understand urban planning, and what makes downtowns vibrant, replacing the barren gravel lots at The Forks with a mixture of housing and retail is extremely positive. What I do not agree with is consulting the public, as there seems to be an anti-development mentality that permeates many residents of Winnipeg. They do not comprehend that the key to a successful downtown is having pedestrian activity 24/7, and that the more people living downtown, the better it will become. By increasing the downtown population with the targeted demographic, that will increase the median income for the area, and that is key to attracting better retailers downtown. This development should be approved only by The Forks North Portage Partnership, and the City of Winnipeg.

-- Kyle Snihur

My husband and I used to go to The Forks on a regular basis. When changes started happening (such as Inn At The Forks), parking became more and more difficult for us. My husband is handicapped and "special" parking spaces are terribly scarce. Walking is definitely out of the question for him. Therefore, we find ourselves visiting The Forks maybe once a year. If residential housing were brought in to the area, then, visiting The Forks would certainly be more of a challenge for us. Strange how people forget our handicapped!

-- Denise Manhard

Residential housing should not be allowed at The Forks. It will be overcrowded as it is with the human rights museum. If people can't find parking space, they won't come.

-- O. Parkasewych

Regarding the "seldom-used lot" near the Canwest Park, I have had to park there, and pay, on a number of occasions I have visited The Forks. Also when I drive by during baseball games the area looks very full. The area outlined in red by the railway station is often in use!

-- John Perry

No! No! No! One of the most unique sites in North America should never be defiled with housing. Another money-grubbing, short-sighted cash grab by some capitalist neanderthal troglodyte. Leave it alone and let it be enjoyed.

-- Gary Attenborrow

- source: Winnipeg Free Press

newflyer · #13 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 6:26 AM**

We have a REAL winner... The Furthest From Reality award goes to.....

Quote:

No! No! No! One of the most unique sites in North America should never be defiled with housing. Another money-grubbing, short-sighted cash grab by some capitalist neanderthal troglodyte. Leave it alone and let it be enjoyed.

-- Gary Attenborrow

Good little socialist...
I think Gary wants to be a happy caveman, far away from development (so scarey) .... sadly he wants to be a caveman in downtown Winnipeg.

Gary.. I heard they don`t allow development in N.K ... or in your language .. grunt.. grunt.. ung .. urg.
you rub stick... make big fire.

JayM · #14 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 6:31 AM**

Quote:

Why can we not have a bit of open space here in Winnipeg? When visiting other cities, it is the parks and green areas that attract me, but I do have to be able to find a spot to put the car so that I can get out and enjoy them. I realize that our city seems to be on the lookout for any way to find new tax dollars but what fun is a concrete jungle? Green means grass and trees not office buildings and yet more shops. Leave well enough alone!

-- Elizabeth Deacon

What the hell? yeah like Winnipeg doesn't have enough open space? WHAT A LOAD OF BS! In fact Winnipeg has plenty of space. Swiss Cheese kinda space.

I don't think people realize how much of a drag they really are to this city. They want development but no not in places that need development. Insanes I tells ya!

The whole idea of The Forks was just for this purpose. Its suppose to have all these amenities. Like god forbid we build to suit our needs.

Quote:

Residential housing should not be allowed at The Forks. It will be overcrowded as it is with the human rights museum. If people can't find parking space, they won't come.

-- O. Parkasewych

It's a PARK! WALK YOU LAZY F*$K!!

Quote:

We used to come to Winnipeg on a regular basis to visit The Forks, now it's a chore to find parking. I guess rural residents will have to promote Fort Whyte and Oak Hammock more. Winnipeg is totally becoming a concrete jungle. Therefore, this household is totally against any further construction of any type at The Forks. It should be an area to enjoy in peace.

-- The Fletts, Selkirk

Concrete Jungle? I think the term used is "City".

Quote:

I think that housing at The Forks is absolutely ridiculous! The powers at be (i.e. Jim August and company) must make it their mission in life to fill every piece of green space with something! Whatever happened to the original concept of The Forks which was to be a meeting place and a green space by the river? Wake up people! Don't sit back and let this happen!

-- Peggy Wilton

Green space? The location of the Proposed Residential is based on a Parking LOT!! A PARKING LOT! As far as green space by the river apparently this women hasn't been down to the walk way which wraps around The Forks. I find that this walk way is beautiful and very scenic.

newflyer · #15 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 6:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayM

Concrete Jungle? I think the term used is "City"

CITY!!!!

... most of those people don`t believe its a city .. they think Winnipeg a clown-town, lazy ass, inbred love yer sister, pot smoking, hippie loving, anti-everything, I hate capalists, can you spare some change, kum ba ya singing, waa waa, cry me a river, granola crunching, parking festival playground for idiots.

AND HOW DARE THOSE EVIL DEVELOPERS TRY TO RUIN OUR GRAVEL SURFACE LOTS!!!

vid · #16 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 8:30 AM**

At least you guys don't have mountains. We're trying to get some waterfront condos built but everyone is all pissed off because if we do, the local geography will vanish.

Only The Lonely.. · #17 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 10:15 AM**

Hahaha I like the way this guy thinks..

Quote:

This is exactly the kind of development that the city needs. In a time when many of our politicians are loudly cheering for more suburban sprawl (read: Waverley West, IKEA), it's refreshing to see people like Mr. August working hard to breathe life back into our downtown. Thank you Mr. August!

-- Chris Schulz

Only The Lonely.. · #18 Posted **Jan 3, 2009, 10:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by vid

At least you guys don't have mountains. We're trying to get some waterfront condos built but everyone is all pissed off because if we do, the local geography will vanish.

You guys must secretly be Manitobans! You have the same incompetent civic leaders that we do.

vid · #19 Posted **Jan 4, 2009, 11:31 AM**

Has Winnipeg exiled a former mayor yet?

Spocket · #20 Posted **Jan 4, 2009, 12:29 PM**

Now I see it's the turn of Sun readers to prove their ignorance. The editor of that rag is also decrying the "loss of greenspace" at the Forks. Are these people monochromatic or something ? Since when were parking lots green ?

Would the last person to leave (or die as it were) please turn off the lights.