Judge orders Vancouver strata to impose $16 million levy

[whatnext]

Well, this is a reality check to those who love to sing the praises of density and multi-unit living:

Judge orders Vancouver strata to impose $16 million levy to repair leaky condo problems

...The strata did not implement an engineer’s report recommending a comprehensive remediation program, prompting a group of owners to go to court seeking an order for an administrator with powers to impose a special levy

The judge in that first court case dismissed the petition after concluding that the complex’s salvage value — its expected sale price if bought by a developer for demolition and redevelopment — might be less than the then-estimated price of $40 million for repairs. He left open the possibility a similar application might succeed on new evidence.

“Notably, almost ten years have elapsed since that petition and Gardenia Villa continues to face serious water ingress problems,” said B.C. Supreme Court Justice Maria Morellato in her ruling ordering the $16 million levy....

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-n...condo-problems

[Pinion]

I was shocked when my strata voted to replace the pipes in our building properly rather than fill them wish some shitty gimmicky foam stuff that was supposed to plug the constant leaks we were getting. We usually go cheap on everything.

That was like $18,000 per unit (included partial bathroom reno with new tub etc. and modern fire system) and a lot of units went up for sale after we approved.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I was shocked when my strata voted to replace the pipes in our building properly rather than fill them wish some shitty gimmicky foam stuff that was supposed to plug the constant leaks we were getting. We usually go cheap on everything.

That was like $18,000 per unit (included partial bathroom reno with new tub etc. and modern fire system) and a lot of units went up for sale after we approved.

The thing that people do not realize is that you pay a huge premium on brand new condos. In some case's I've seen a new 2 bedroom condos selling for 75% more then my 18 tear old place in the same area. Investing money to repair, upgrade and replace stuff is way, way cheaper then selling, moving and buying a brand new place.

One has to be careful though. As a strata council member I have seen proposals for upgrades or repairs of various things that can range almost 10 to 1 in price. So getting competing bids and carefully examining them is a must.

Most people buying condos are however blissfully ignorant and rarely realize that strata fees cannot pay for major upgrades. They also think that strata fees should never go up and thus are shocked when repairs come about.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by WBC

The thing that people do not realize is that you pay a huge premium on brand new condos. In some case's I've seen a new 2 bedroom condos selling for 75% more then my 18 tear old place in the same area. Investing money to repair, upgrade and replace stuff is way, way cheaper then selling, moving and buying a brand new place.

One has to be careful though. As a strata council member I have seen proposals for upgrades or repairs of various things that can range almost 10 to 1 in price. So getting competing bids and carefully examining them is a must.

Most people buying condos are however blissfully ignorant and rarely realize that strata fees cannot pay for major upgrades. They also think that strata fees should never go up and thus are shocked when repairs come about.

That's why it's best (IMHO) to buy into a pre leaky condo era building (1980ish). While the maintenance fees are usually anywhere from 250-400/month for a 1 bed in a pre 1980 building, the purchase price is significantly less. The total monthly payments for the mortgage plus maintenance fees on an older 35+yr condo is still less than purchasing in a new building. It already accounts for the cost of major repairs as the building has had enough of a sample period to have the fees in line with the performance of the building and an adequate reserve fund to pay for predictable future repairs. Also note most pre 1980 buildings have hot water heating, the heating and hot/cold tap water are included in the maintenance fees, newer condos have additional heating and water fees. Money saved on the purchase price on an older unit can be used to upgrade the unit to your specific personal tastes and you get more square footage.

The problem with newer buildings having lower maintenance fees is they are not in line with the performance of the building because the sample period only includes a new building covered by warranties. Once those warranties expire (2-5-10 formula) unless the maintenance fees triple or quadruple you end up with special levies that could be 30-60k per unit; while still paying your mortgage on a condo that you likely paid almost double the purchase price of an older unit because you wanted to buy new.

My grandpa had a leaky condo in Kits built in 1990, rebuilt twice before selling (more repairs pending). Gardenia Villa is the epitome of the leaky condo debacle; designed by the well known James Cheng aswell. Excessively complex and complicated stucco facade (best for drier climates), lack of maintenance because of low maintenance fees and low quality materials and finish quality. Add on to that the complex has many owners who communicate poorly and can't decide what to do with their exceedingly high maintenance building.

Here's a link with a list of affidavits from tenants in Gardenia Villa, you can read the various nightmares the people have to live with:
http://hakemiridgedale.com/2016/04/n...ardenia-villa/

More background info on Gardenia Villa:
http://blog.myleakycondo.com/index.p...93&blogId=1060

Wikipedia has a very in depth article of the leaky condo debacle, worth the read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaky_condo_crisis

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I was shocked when my strata voted to replace the pipes in our building properly rather than fill them wish some shitty gimmicky foam stuff that was supposed to plug the constant leaks we were getting. We usually go cheap on everything.

That was like $18,000 per unit (included partial bathroom reno with new tub etc. and modern fire system) and a lot of units went up for sale after we approved.

Yeah, I don't what it is but every condo building seems to develop pinhole leaks in the water pipes before 10 years is even up. Was this common in office or rental apartments and just never publicized because it was corporate ownership?

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, I don't what it is but every condo building seems to develop pinhole leaks in the water pipes before 10 years is even up. Was this common in office or rental apartments and just never publicized because it was corporate ownership?

The quality of the copper and our soft acidic water eating them away.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yeah, I don't what it is but every condo building seems to develop pinhole leaks in the water pipes before 10 years is even up. Was this common in office or rental apartments and just never publicized because it was corporate ownership?

There was also the Wolverine (IIRC) pipe scandal. Several years of substandard pipes delivered to the market. Put the company out of business.