Downtown Tunnels

[DizzyEdge]

nevermind........

[Chadillaccc]

I know Vancouver converted its old railway tunnel under downtown into its stacked skytrain tunnel from Stadium-Chinatown Station to Waterfront Station... perhaps some/one of these tunnels is an abandoned train tunnel?

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I know Vancouver converted its old railway tunnel under downtown into its stacked skytrain tunnel from Stadium-Chinatown Station to Waterfront Station... perhaps some/one of these tunnels is an abandoned train tunnel?

I've heard some inner city residents are suggesting that the rough'ed in LRT tunnel be used for river over-flow IE to protected homes instead of facilitate better public transportation.

[Innersoul1]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I've heard some inner city residents are suggesting that the rough'ed in LRT tunnel be used for river over-flow IE to protected homes instead of facilitate better public transportation.

These people are idiots if they really think that the volume of the tunnel is any match for the river!

[s211]

And isn't the only tunnel to-date the portion built under City Hall?

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by suburbia

I've heard some inner city residents are suggesting that the rough'ed in LRT tunnel be used for river over-flow IE to protected homes instead of facilitate better public transportation.

There just ain't a smiley to express my thoughts here.

That is hilarious on so many levels. Not the least of which are capacity, and structural soundness.

This, folks, is why we do not live in a direct democracy and why referendums for everything are a really, really stupid idea. The so-called "average person" is truly a short-sighted idiot on most issues.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by freeweed

There just ain't a smiley to express my thoughts here.

That is hilarious on so many levels. Not the least of which are capacity, and structural soundness.

This, folks, is why we do not live in a direct democracy and why referendums for everything are a really, really stupid idea. The so-called "average person" is truly a short-sighted idiot on most issues.

Where would the water entering the tunnel go? Water only flows down hill so the tunnel would have to spill into the Bow at a lower elevation than downtown. Where would that be? Most likely somewhere way SE in Fish Creek Park. This idea is even dumber than suggestions that Calgary needs a Winnipeg style floodway.

[monocle]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

These people are idiots if they really think that the volume of the tunnel is any match for the river!

You quoted the troll that said what he "heard". It's bullshit.

[Blue_Cypress]

The Civic Parkade, a much larger structure -- which is directly connected to the tunnel structure -- filled completely during the flood with 60 million litres of water, and did nothing to alleviate the flooding. The c-train tunnel between Victoria Park and City Hall filled completely with water, and did nothing to alleviate the flooding. The roughed-in area did not help either, did it?

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by s211

And isn't the only tunnel to-date the portion built under City Hall?

There is a roughed in station area under Bankers Hall, and supposedly one under Western Canada Place, although not confirmed.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Cowtown_Tim

There is a roughed in station area under Bankers Hall, and supposedly one under Western Canada Place, although not confirmed.

At Bankers Hall, I understand it to be a roughed-in connection to where a station would be located, and not a full station per-se. Given the age of WCP, I'm surprised to hear a rumour of something there.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by s211

At Bankers Hall, I understand it to be a roughed-in connection to where a station would be located, and not a full station per-se. Given the age of WCP, I'm surprised to hear a rumour of something there.

WCP is only a few years older than the first Bankers Hall tower isn't it? Also, what year was the Municipal Building built? It was in the late 70's and early 80's that Calgary was thinking about building a subway I believe. Does anyone know the history of the proposed subway and the later decision to go with a LRT?

[RyLucky]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

WCP is only a few years older than the first Bankers Hall tower isn't it? Also, what year was the Municipal Building built? It was in the late 70's and early 80's that Calgary was thinking about building a subway I believe. Does anyone know the history of the proposed subway and the later decision to go with a LRT?

Municipal building was finished in 1985.
Several options were considered for the c-train. It was determined that at grade track would be fine until Calgary was bigger, at which time a subway under Stephen Ave would be ideal. You can even tell from the original 7th ave stations, that they were not intended to satisfy a city of 1 million. Running the train at grade worked better than many of the original planners thought. IIRC there were a lot of worries about conflicts with vehicles and pedestrians. IMO, Calgary made 100% the right call to stay at grade, and this is a major reason our LRT (and dare i say our city) is so much more successful that Edmonton's. Saving cost allowed us to build more line, something that was especially important in establishing a network.

[Blue_Cypress]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

WCP is only a few years older than the first Bankers Hall tower isn't it? Also, what year was the Municipal Building built? It was in the late 70's and early 80's that Calgary was thinking about building a subway I believe. Does anyone know the history of the proposed subway and the later decision to go with a LRT?

1983, six years earlier than the east tower of bankers hall. I am surprised that you don't know this, or that they were designed by the same firm.

[Calgarian]

I don't keep up on stats of when buildings were completed, and I didn't know that Cohos Evamy designed WCP. The timing does seem to work with when the tunnel under the Municipal building and Bankers Hall were done, so it's possible there is a station roughed in.

IMO, Calgary made 100% the right call to stay at grade, and this is a major reason our LRT (and dare i say our city) is so much more successful that Edmonton's. Saving cost allowed us to build more line, something that was especially important in establishing a network.

I'd say that the success of downtown lead to the success of the LRT, not the other way around. Does anyone know why Edmonton's downtown didn't become much of a corporate centre while we did? I doubt very much that our LRT at grade made any difference, actually I think that burying the line should have been better. I agree that going with the on grade option lead to our system being better as both cities have spend a similar amount to date and ours is much more extensive and carries way more passengers.

[Doug]

How does the flood impact plans for a future Stephen Ave subway? Downtown's high water table has always been a challenge but the experience with the Municipal Building present numerous questions:

1) Will building owners allow underground tie-in to a tunnel that could allow water into their own buildings?

2) Tunnels can be designed to be water tight but the portals will be possible entry points for water. The existing Victoria Park portal failed. Could it be redesigned for greater resilience?

3) Could the tunnel and underground stations be designed to easily recover from flooding?

4) The large foundations downtown have already raised the water table by displacing the porous material through which water normally flows. What would be the impact of a very long, continuous barrier to underground water flow?

5) Could tunnels be constructed under the Bow or Elbow in a cost effective manner? One solution to the portal problem might be to connect the Cemetery Hill and Victoria Park tunnels with a new tunnel under the Elbow. The future NC line might require a tunnel under theBow.

[kw5150]

I was wondering this as well.......the C train service was hardly affected by the floods, imagine a flooded subway to deal with...

[Chadillaccc]

There should (in a perfect world) be a tunnel right after Sunnyside Station, a portal heading under the Bow River, under 8th Avenue, under where the Stampede Stations are right now, under the Elbow, and then connecting with the existing cemetary hill tunnel. That would make for three underground stations in the financial core (8th Street, 3rd Street, City Hall) and both Stampede stations underground.

[DizzyEdge]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Does anyone know why Edmonton's downtown didn't become much of a corporate centre while we did?

Arguably due to the Barron building.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by DizzyEdge

Arguably due to the Barron building.

Care to elaborate?