DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by RyanD

That's the same height at 1670 Broadway. Nice

Also the same roof height as the Hyatt Regency.

[twister244]

Sweet news on the 162 hotel front. I look forward to seeing renderings at some point!

On other fronts, it appears apartment construction isn't going to significantly slow down anytime soon, not until a major economic slowdown at least:
http://milehighcre.com/denvers-multi...ilt-says-cbre/

[CherryCreek]

Originally Posted by twister244

Sweet news on the 162 hotel front. I look forward to seeing renderings at some point!

On other fronts, it appears apartment construction isn't going to significantly slow down anytime soon, not until a major economic slowdown at least:
http://milehighcre.com/denvers-multi...ilt-says-cbre/

Amazingly, despite the biggest apartment building boom in Denver history, the rapidly rising rents and absorption shows that the boom wasn't boomy enough, and that even more apartments should have been built, more rapidly.

Of course, a sharp economic downtown could quickly put the kabash on future building plans.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by twister244

Sweet news on the 162 hotel front. I look forward to seeing renderings at some point!

On other fronts, it appears apartment construction isn't going to significantly slow down anytime soon, not until a major economic slowdown at least:
http://milehighcre.com/denvers-multi...ilt-says-cbre/

I've seen that analysis before; it's interesting.

Actually there's been a slowdown this year in apartment starts and other than for Greystar or Holland breaking ground this year nothing else comes to mind... but then my memory?? There's an ample supply of apartments still under construction, being completed. So for the moment Denver's fine. There's a number of towers now in the pipeline from apartments to condos which is nice for the future.

The key is we're seeing solid job growth continue including announcements like VF Corp which will play out over years including their ripple affect.

What I still anticipate is more development outside downtown in Sun Valley, Broadway/I-25, ofc RiNO and even TOD along the W and G Lines.

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

Of course, a sharp economic downtown could quickly put the kabash on future building plans.

The latest projection is now suggesting a slow 'reversion to the presumed mean' of 2% GDP growth after the 3rd quarter which should be over 3%. Two things; the tariffs although they've done little real damage so far they're taking the sugar-high off of Trump's pro-business high including the tax cuts. Oddly, I saw a Fox News poll that showed only 41% of the population has a positive view of the tax cuts while 51% approve of Obamacare. Go figure.

One thing I forgot about is that the Fed is now letting their $4 trillion balance sheet run off at about $50 billion a month. So it will take years but it's a mild brake on economic activity and upwards pressure on interest rates.

[SirLucasTheGreat]

I wonder if the Block 162 developer has already locked prices for their steel, hence the sdp for the hotel. It seems that the steel tariffs would otherwise keep developers on the sidelines for these sorts of projects

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

I wonder if the Block 162 developer has already locked prices for their steel, hence the sdp for the hotel. It seems that the steel tariffs would otherwise keep developers on the sidelines for these sorts of projects

My understanding is steel prices aren’t that much higher than ~2012 right now. I’d be interested if people know otherwise but I’d guess some companies are thinking ‘better get in this cycle now before trade wars and recession hits full cycle’

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

My understanding is steel prices aren’t that much higher than ~2012 right now. I’d be interested if people know otherwise but I’d guess some companies are thinking ‘better get in this cycle now before trade wars and recession hits full cycle’

According to the St Louis FRED you would be correct. After thinking about it, 2012 was at time of oil patch drilling/fracturing frenzy; IIRC oil prices crashed in 2014. 2015 saw steel prices drop like a rock.

In 2012 the costs of labor and land were much lower. Industrial metals were in a downtrend in 2012 after getting a nice deadcat bounce off the bottom of the recession.

With respect to Block 162 depending on historical inclusion/challenges which could enhance the long term investment value on a key block to begin with, if the developer (presumably) has access to institutional and/or foreign capital I could see this project moving forward... but it could take a couple of years to jump through all the hoops so today's prices a bit premature anyway.

With respect to tariffs, it's not that Team Trump doesn't have some valid complaints but nobody is about to roll over and be spanked by an arrogant bully. Signs are suggesting that it will be Team Trump that will blink first. His rural/farm constituency is getting their hat handed to them as China stops importing and farm commodity prices take a dive. Assume some (wink, wink) face-saving deals to take place especially with Europe and the Americas.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by Chucolo

Closing its doors, according to Denverite. Wonder if that means that old proposal to renovate the Cable Railway Building and plop a hotel on top of it is back in play?

And on a unrelated note; has anybody heard of any updates to the plan to renovate the 16th Street Mall? Rode my bike down there Sunday. Those pavers are in really bad shape....

I ate at the Spaghetti Factory 3 months ago and my impression was the restaurant was being mismanaged, run down and resorting to cheap ploys to try and boost sales. The food was bland, using cheap ingredients 8n an effort to cut costs. On top of it, their pasta was all over cooked. That's the one thing a pasta centric restaurant can't be doing, is over cooking its pasta! C'mon man! My wife and I talked about all these observations while we ate there and I said to her, this place won't be in business much longer. If they were operating a successful business, even not being able to come to terms on a new lease would not result in them closing. They would so My relocate to a new downtown location. This issue is likely that they are operating in the red and can't afford lease rates downtown any longer.


I have a question about 16th Street. Why have they still not added in the primary shuttle stop next to the commuter rail platforms? This was the main concession agreed upon for opening up that section of 16th Street to vehicular traffic, was that this key shuttle stop would be included next to the commuter rail terminal, once that building was completed. The building is completed, where is the stop? This was a crucial eminent in the pedestrian flow models used to plan Union Station redevelopment. It is highly inconvenient not having the shuttle stop there.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I'm sure I'm 'dating' myself... when I ate at the Milk Market on my trip it was very cool; little pricey but what I anticipated. Just the same that place gets incredibly noisy when busy. Give me a mom n pop hole-in-the-wall restaurant, especially good Mexican or even better So American food. I realize finding this 'downtown' is not so realistic but that's my preference unless going upscale.


Generally these open houses draw the whiny malcontents so the results were fairly predictable.

Colorado Blvd is a corridor that needs light rail. Consider the properties along that stretch up to 1st avenue and there's yuge potential for redevelopment.


Good song - understandable.

I did not know that Tulsa also had a Casa Bonita. (Now I do)

The original Casa Bonita was in San Antonio.

[SnyderBock]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

According to the St Louis FRED you would be correct. After thinking about it, 2012 was at time of oil patch drilling/fracturing frenzy; IIRC oil prices crashed in 2014. 2015 saw steel prices drop like a rock.

In 2012 the costs of labor and land were much lower. Industrial metals were in a downtrend in 2012 after getting a nice deadcat bounce off the bottom of the recession.

With respect to Block 162 depending on historical inclusion/challenges which could enhance the long term investment value on a key block to begin with, if the developer (presumably) has access to institutional and/or foreign capital I could see this project moving forward... but it could take a couple of years to jump through all the hoops so today's prices a bit premature anyway.

With respect to tariffs, it's not that Team Trump doesn't have some valid complaints but nobody is about to roll over and be spanked by an arrogant bully. Signs are suggesting that it will be Team Trump that will blink first. His rural/farm constituency is getting their hat handed to them as China stops importing and farm commodity prices take a dive. Assume some (wink, wink) face-saving deals to take place especially with Europe and the Americas.

The USA tried this whole trade war thing in the late 1920's and the results were negative pressures on job growth and GDP. The leaders at the time even wrote about this mistake for future generations considering a trade war, to remind us that it does not work.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

I ate at the Spaghetti Factory 3 months ago and my impression was the restaurant was being mismanaged, run down and resorting to cheap ploys to try and boost sales. The food was bland, using cheap ingredients 8n an effort to cut costs. On top of it, their pasta was all over cooked. That's the one thing a pasta centric restaurant can't be doing, is over cooking its pasta! C'mon man! My wife and I talked about all these observations while we ate there and I said to her, this place won't be in business much longer. If they were operating a successful business, even not being able to come to terms on a new lease would not result in them closing. They would so My relocate to a new downtown location. This issue is likely that they are operating in the red and can't afford lease rates downtown any longer.


I have a question about 16th Street. Why have they still not added in the primary shuttle stop next to the commuter rail platforms? This was the main concession agreed upon for opening up that section of 16th Street to vehicular traffic, was that this key shuttle stop would be included next to the commuter rail terminal, once that building was completed. The building is completed, where is the stop? This was a crucial eminent in the pedestrian flow models used to plan Union Station redevelopment. It is highly inconvenient not having the shuttle stop there.

Actually I just initiated a conversation with RTD about this. I'll let you know what I find out.

[rds70]

The tower crane on Block 162 is going up this weekend.

[rds70]

Here are a couple of new renderings of Block 162:

[rds70]

A couple of quick shots from Riverfront Park:

[BG918]

Originally Posted by SnyderBock

The original Casa Bonita was in San Antonio.

Not the same Casa Bonita owned by Bill Waugh. The original owners opened the first one in Oklahoma City in 1968, followed by Tulsa in 1971 and then Lakewood in 1973. OKC closed in 1993 and Tulsa in 2005, but was reopened a few years later then closed for good in 2011. I believe there were two other regional locations at one time or another, one in Ft Worth and one in Little Rock. Obviously the Lakewood location is the only one still open, and was also the largest though Tulsa's was close and had caves, waterfalls, etc

[Robert.hampton]

Originally Posted by BG918

Not the same Casa Bonita owned by Bill Waugh. The original owners opened the first one in Oklahoma City in 1968, followed by Tulsa in 1971 and then Lakewood in 1973. OKC closed in 1993 and Tulsa in 2005, but was reopened a few years later then closed for good in 2011. I believe there were two other regional locations at one time or another, one in Ft Worth and one in Little Rock. Obviously the Lakewood location is the only one still open, and was also the largest though Tulsa's was close and had caves, waterfalls, etc

Did Tulsa’s have a black Bart’s cave? If not, it wasn’t genuine.

[twister244]

I know Block 162 isn't that tall with respect to other buildings around it, but man is it going to fill a big hole in that part of downtown. Those renderings do a good job in highlighting that. I really really hope they don't ax the crown lighting on this one, but I wouldn't be surprised if they did.

Does anyone have any updates on why we STILL don't have that lighting on the Confluence going, along with the strip lighting on 1144? I know someone mentioned the city process is slow for approval, but it's been several months now.....

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Actually I just initiated a conversation with RTD about this. I'll let you know what I find out.

Well what do you know...

https://denverurbanism.com/2018/08/n...reet-mall.html

[Denvergotback]

Originally Posted by twister244

Does anyone have any updates on why we STILL don't have that lighting on the Confluence going, along with the strip lighting on 1144? I know someone mentioned the city process is slow for approval, but it's been several months now.....

I wonder the same thing, I was in the tech center last night, there are buildings in there that already have lighting lit up at night that are still under construction...it shouldn't be right for downtown to move at a slower pace than the tech center

[Curtis Park]

Complete with a bus in the bike lane on Glenarm!

They don't show any buses on the Mall but instead have the roadway populated with people. I wish that were the case and that we could get the buses moved to 15th and 17th with the same frequency. Those pavers are taking a beating and I don't seem them surviving if RTD is faced with eternal repairs.

Originally Posted by rds70

Here are a couple of new renderings of Block 162: