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  #121  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 5:49 PM
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travis bickle: I'm not suggesting that government doesn't add to the cost of the home, but I am very doubtful of econgrad's claim that these fees would nearly triple housing costs (in this example, a $250K loft that Econgrad assesses as worth $90K.) I just think he is overestimating the cost of city fees by a ludicrous degree, and discounting consumer demand entirely.

Quote:
Why do existing homes cost as much as new homes despite not having to pay government fees? C'mon wburg... you know the answer to that. The fees drive the costs for the entire market, not the other way around.
But then, why do buildings outside the central city neighborhoods cost less? If it is entirely the fees, rather than consumer demand, shouldn't a home in Del Paso Heights or Oak Park cost the same as a house of similar square footage in Midtown or Land Park? And yes, I know the answer to that: people are quite simply willing to pay more for property in Midtown or Land Park than in Del Paso or Oak Park, because the location is more desirable. Econgrad's second fallacy is that he doesn't seem to think that location matters in real estate. I am certain you know better than that, Travis.
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  #122  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 6:33 PM
Mr. Ozo Mr. Ozo is offline
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Location, location, location. Oak Park is also in the city of Sacramento with the same building fees as Midtown. But we know the value is less there.
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  #123  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 8:46 PM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
travis bickle: I'm not suggesting that government doesn't add to the cost of the home, but I am very doubtful of econgrad's claim that these fees would nearly triple housing costs (in this example, a $250K loft that Econgrad assesses as worth $90K.) I just think he is overestimating the cost of city fees by a ludicrous degree, and discounting consumer demand entirely.


But then, why do buildings outside the central city neighborhoods cost less? If it is entirely the fees, rather than consumer demand, shouldn't a home in Del Paso Heights or Oak Park cost the same as a house of similar square footage in Midtown or Land Park? And yes, I know the answer to that: people are quite simply willing to pay more for property in Midtown or Land Park than in Del Paso or Oak Park, because the location is more desirable. Econgrad's second fallacy is that he doesn't seem to think that location matters in real estate. I am certain you know better than that, Travis.

Now wait just a darn minute there wburg... are you telling me that location plays a role in the cost of a home?????!!!! Wow!!!! Who knew?

This whole time I thought it was just fees. Are homebuyers aware of this???

Thanks!

Your (now enlightened) friend,

Travis

PS - if you already knew the answer...

Q:
Quote:
if these "bureaucracies" result in higher prices, why are Sacramento's outer neighborhoods less expensively priced than downtown/midtown? They are governed by the same city government "bureaucracies," but homes are less expensive. Why is that?
A:
Quote:
because the location is more desirable.

Then why did you ask the question???
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  #124  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 8:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis bickle View Post
Then why did you ask the question???
I asked the question of Econgrad, because he doesn't seem to agree. He claims that central city housing is more expensive solely because of fees, and claims that it should be less expensive than suburban housing. I realize he's wrong, you realize he's wrong, but he's having a little trouble grasping the concept. Hopefully this discussion will help enlighten him.
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  #125  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
I asked the question of Econgrad, because he doesn't seem to agree. He claims that central city housing is more expensive solely because of fees, and claims that it should be less expensive than suburban housing. I realize he's wrong, you realize he's wrong, but he's having a little trouble grasping the concept. Hopefully this discussion will help enlighten him.
Wha? When did I say that housing in DT is higher priced solely because of fees??
Also, please tell me when I said these other things too.
Here is my exact post:

The costs of construction on DT and MT Sac are inflated because of bureaucracies. These are worth no more than $90,000 to $150,000. The costs of building them are so high not because of natural market causes. The costs are high to construct because too many people are involved. Also, downtown Sacramento will be a failure if it continues to avoid catering to families. Urban renewal will continue to be a failure and have to be tax funded if we cannot find a way to lower the prices and increase the size of what if offered for families. You will continue to see more and more companies locating in Folsom and Roseville, and more money and people continuing to move to those areas until Sacramento wakes up. You already know my opinion on this Wburg.... funny you even ask this question.

More words in my mouth. I asked you not to do that, nicely.
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  #126  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Econgrad
You're clearly putting words in my mouth again wburg. You claim I said "half a dozen" when I clearly said "six."
econgrad: Well then, what did you mean by "bureaucracies" and "too many people involved" are the causes behind downtown's higher prices? If it isn't the fees and taxes associated with Sacramento's bureaucracy, what is causing these higher prices?
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  #127  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 11:28 PM
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This is a really dumb conversation. I don't even know what the point of arguing is. The facts are the facts and the central city cost most than everywhere else per square foot. Why does it matter exactly where those increased costs are coming from? The only thing that matters is people are willing to pay for it.
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  #128  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 11:38 PM
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Thank you, majin, for getting to the point of the matter. Econgrad doesn't think downtown should be so expensive because he doesn't want to live here...but plenty of people do, and the amount of space is limited. That's basic supply and demand.
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  #129  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Econgrad (really posted by Wburg)
You're clearly putting words in my mouth again wburg. You claim I said "half a dozen" when I clearly said "six."


Umm...what is your point of this above Wburg?
I never wrote that, I think your joking right?
Your being kind of a loony Wburg...
Is that how you want to beat me at debates? Lying and putting up stuff that is simply not being said by anyone, including me?
Weirdo...
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  #130  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2009, 11:53 PM
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econgrad: Okay, I will repost my question with my snarky attempt at humor removed:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wburg View Post
econgrad: Well then, what did you mean by "bureaucracies" and "too many people involved" are the causes behind downtown's higher prices? If it isn't the fees and taxes associated with Sacramento's bureaucracy, what is causing these higher prices?
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  #131  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2009, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by econgrad View Post
Also, downtown Sacramento will be a failure if it continues to avoid catering to families.
What does "catering to families" mean, econgrad? Are you saying more detached single family homes with yards should be built downtown?

Can you give an example of a Sacramento suburb or neighborhood that you think does a good job of catering to families and therefore is a success?
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  #132  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2009, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip View Post
What does "catering to families" mean, econgrad? Are you saying more detached single family homes with yards should be built downtown?

Can you give an example of a Sacramento suburb or neighborhood that you think does a good job of catering to families and therefore is a success?
Wburg and Philip, your questions require me to write an article. Which I am going to do, all I ask is a little time.
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  #133  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2009, 7:31 AM
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I can't speak for wburg but please don't write an article for my sake, econgrad. We've talked about this subject on the board before and I think I understand your views on this pretty well.

If the purpose of your article is to inspire further debate on the subject on the board I won't be participating. If you write something I'll read and consider it, but I probably won't say much. Maybe others will want to debate it longer, but I don't.

Anyhow I'm going out of town tomorrow and I usually don't read the board as much when I'm out of Sac. If you write an article I'll see it when I get back.
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  #134  
Old Posted Apr 16, 2009, 9:42 PM
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Looks like the Maydestone is ready to go with D&S taking on the project.....Thank God! That thing will look good when it's done.

It's pretty amazing that that piece of property only sits on .11 acres.

City Council Meeting: April 21, 2009
(Redevelopment Agency) Approval of Owner Participation Agreement and Loan Documents for Maydestone Building Project

Location: 1001 15th Street (District 1)

Recommendation: Adopt a Redevelopment Agency Resolution a) approving Downtown Low/Moderate Tax Increment (TI) funds for an Agency loan of $4,570,000 for the project, b) authorizing the Agency to transfer Downtown Low/Moderate TI funds for a loan of up to $4,570,000 for the project, and c) authorizing the Executive Director, or her designee, to execute an Owner Participation Agreement (OPA) and loan documents with the developer.


Staff Report



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  #135  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 1:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugit View Post
Looks like the Maydestone is ready to go with D&S taking on the project.....Thank God! That thing will look good when it's done.

It's pretty amazing that that piece of property only sits on .11 acres.

City Council Meeting: April 21, 2009
(Redevelopment Agency) Approval of Owner Participation Agreement and Loan Documents for Maydestone Building Project

Location: 1001 15th Street (District 1)

Recommendation: Adopt a Redevelopment Agency Resolution a) approving Downtown Low/Moderate Tax Increment (TI) funds for an Agency loan of $4,570,000 for the project, b) authorizing the Agency to transfer Downtown Low/Moderate TI funds for a loan of up to $4,570,000 for the project, and c) authorizing the Executive Director, or her designee, to execute an Owner Participation Agreement (OPA) and loan documents with the developer.


Staff Report




This is a rehab of the existing building I hope?
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  #136  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 2:24 AM
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Correct
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  #137  
Old Posted Apr 17, 2009, 5:02 AM
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I think we're all pretty happy to hear about that one. I just hope I can get a peek at the inside before the remodel, although I imagine it's looking very rough indeed...
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  #138  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2009, 11:57 PM
Yogi916 Yogi916 is offline
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wburg gimme a call on my cell a little ways down the road and we can go through it prior to us starting. hope to start construction in 2-3 months. coordinating everything as we speak... this one will be special...
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  #139  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2009, 9:30 PM
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I would love to get a tour prior to construction. Are these open to City staff?
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  #140  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2009, 8:33 PM
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While I was on the bus on L Street today I noticed scaffolding surrounding the YWCA building on L Street and 17th--the clay tiles were being removed from the roof, so it looks like it is finally getting a long-deferred roof repair as well as structural and interior upgrades. Nice to see a pretty building that plays such a vital role (it is considered an SRO, and unique in that it is for women only) under repair!
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