Canadian Maps and Graphics

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Denscity

British Columbia is so British haha! #1 in Canadian support.

#1 in support in the 4/13 jurisdictions that were included.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by someone123

#1 in support in the 4/13 jurisdictions that were included.

Haha how many jurisdictions did your province include?

[GreaterMontréal]

the CMA-E maps offer a great representation of the size of a metropolitan area.

Montréal had a CMA-E of about 4.28M in 2011. 10,186 km²
+500,000 (2001-2011)

satellites cities (surrounding the CMA) give a great indication of how a metropolitan area evolves with time.

(2001-2011)
+426,000 - CMA
+489,000 - within the CMA-E

the satellite cities (458,000 in 2011) are still growing and they add to the traffic problem near the GMA. The CMA-E should be around 4.8M in 2020. +1M in 20 years,

[isaidso]

It's astonishing how much higher pay is in the US vs everyone else. The US benefits from being the 'first mover'. The first big tech firms were American. They've done a great job staying on top by offering the best pay to get the best talent. Until we close the pay gap we'll continue to suffer massive brain drain to the US. So will everyone else.





https://www.geekwire.com/2018/report...ot-relocation/

[J.OT13]

And we pay much higher taxes. The positive thing thought that tips the balance towards Canada is more social services (universal health-care, affordable post-secondary education, different levels of child care and pharmacare depending on the province, etc.) a better quality of life, more affordable housing (for the most part), safer cities, better public transit, more inclusive, better human rights, politicians and governments that, although far from perfect, are much more productive and good for its citizens...

[vid]

All the tech companies are owned by Americans (and the Canadian ones just sell themselves to Americans once they become valuable) so why would they pay Canadians more?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

And we pay much higher taxes. The positive thing thought that tips the balance towards Canada is more social services (universal health-care, affordable post-secondary education, different levels of child care and pharmacare depending on the province, etc.) a better quality of life, more affordable housing (for the most part), safer cities, better public transit, more inclusive, better human rights, politicians and governments that, although far from perfect, are much more productive and good for its citizens...

And that's exactly why there's been a massive Canada->USA brain drain for decades: when you're young, healthy, and already highly-educated, this trade-off (lower income and much higher taxes, in exchange for cheaper education and free healthcare) is not appealing at all.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

And that's exactly why there's been a massive Canada->USA brain drain for decades: when you're young, healthy, and already highly-educated, this trade-off (lower income and much higher taxes, in exchange for cheaper education and free healthcare) is not appealing at all.

It's definitely true that many professionals can get paid a lot more in the US, and the health care stuff doesn't matter much for younger workers with good jobs.

The idea that taxes in Canada are significantly worse across the board is not as accurate though. California is not a low-tax jurisdiction, and there are differences in the tax structure that make it misleading to directly compare provincial/state and federal taxes. Local taxes tend to be higher in the US. For example the effective property taxes I pay would go up to 3x in California (partly this is due to Prop 13). If the health care system in the US were structured better, I think they could have universal health care and not pay higher taxes.

It's also sad how bad tech wages are in European cities like London and Paris. To some degree I think this reflects the prevalence of an outdated corporate structure in which technical employees have a low value and are managed by much higher paid, higher prestige workers who are believed to have an abstract ability to manage people. In companies like this an MBA type with no ability to implement anything dreams up product ideas and then worker drones turn the brilliant vision into reality through what is assumed to be a repeatable process similar to factory work. In practice this model has proven not to work well and the better companies in the US have moved past this to a model where technical employees are more professional and empowered. Many Canadian companies have not. Beyond salary this is another big reason why some people tend to prefer US companies (or something from the small set of modern Canadian software-oriented companies).

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by someone123

It's definitely true that many professionals can get paid a lot more in the US, and the health care stuff doesn't matter much for younger workers with good jobs.

The idea that taxes in Canada are significantly worse across the board is not as accurate though. California is not a low-tax jurisdiction, and there are differences in the tax structure that make it misleading to directly compare provincial/state and federal taxes. Local taxes tend to be higher in the US. For example the effective property taxes I pay would go up to 3x in California (partly this is due to Prop 13). If the health care system in the US were structured better, I think they could have universal health care and not pay higher taxes.

It's also sad how bad tech wages are in European cities like London and Paris. To some degree I think this reflects the prevalence of an outdated corporate structure in which technical employees have a low value and are managed by much higher paid, higher prestige workers who are believed to have an abstract ability to manage people. In companies like this an MBA type with no ability to implement anything dreams up product ideas and then worker drones turn the brilliant vision into reality through what is assumed to be a repeatable process similar to factory work. In practice this model has proven not to work well and the better companies in the US have moved past this to a model where technical employees are more professional and empowered. Many Canadian companies have not. Beyond salary this is another big reason why some people tend to prefer US companies (or something from the small set of modern Canadian software-oriented companies).

So true about local / municipal taxes being much higher in many part of the U.S.. Those taxes are often not factored into taxation comparisons between there and Canada.

My relatives in New Jersey were shocked that I paid $3500 in municipal property taxes and about $1000 for water and sewer last year. Total is $4500 . And the tax rate in Timmins is among the highest of any city in Ontario. But my relatives paid $7000 (CDN) in property taxes and also many additional fees for specific things that are mandatory which totalled about $3000 (CDN). Their total bill was about $10,000 in Canadian dollars! And their house and property are only slightly larger than mine. And they have fewer municipal services than Timmins. They live in what would be a suburban to rural area.

My relatives in California and Texas also pay much more for local taxes but they are quite wealthy with large properties so it's more difficult to compare.

[someone123]

They seem to have more homeowners' associations with fees too, not just in condo-like developments but in areas that looks like standard subdivisions and don't seem to provide much in the way of special services.

Then of course there are the gated McMansion compounds where you have to pay for the standard gardeners, swimming pool maintenance, security guards, etc. You can avoid these places in the US but in some of the higher salary markets they make up a significant share of the housing options.

[vid]

They also have municipal income taxes, and municipal sales taxes (both county and city levels). And those city and county income taxes aren't just imposed on those who live in those cities, they're also imposed (at a lower rate) against those who work there.

Also the health insurance thing tends to leave Americans with healthcare plans similar to ours with less disposable income. I only pay about $1,800 towards healthcare in Ontario. Americans can pay several times that per year for a similar plan that I get, but with a deductible (which we don't have here).

[esquire]

Originally Posted by isaidso

It's astonishing how much higher pay is in the US vs everyone else. The US benefits from being the 'first mover'. The first big tech firms were American. They've done a great job staying on top by offering the best pay to get the best talent. Until we close the pay gap we'll continue to suffer massive brain drain to the US. So will everyone else.

It's like that in a lot of fields... there are vast armies of people in the US earning 100-500K that I doubt Canada would even come close to on a per capita basis. All those assistant regional managers named Todd with bachelors' degrees out there in suburban business parks pulling in 250K or whatever selling bandages or air filters or what have you. Any time I get on a plane going through the US I see them en masse.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by vid

All the tech companies are owned by Americans (and the Canadian ones just sell themselves to Americans once they become valuable) so why would they pay Canadians more?

So their competitors don't get them first. Canadian wage packages are lower because the the bulk of top Canadian talent has already left for US cities. When they start staying in Canada after graduation, wage packages in Canadian cities will rise drastically.

[vid]

"Wage packages" just makes me want to seize the means of production even more tbqh.

[isaidso]

https://qz.com/1194051/a-new-world-b...trys-progress/

[esquire]

^ Surprising. It doesn't feel that way, although living in a city where one tends to always hear the reasons why seemingly normal things like providing basic infrastructure (recreational, transportation, etc.) can't be done obviously shapes my feelings on the matter.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ Surprising. It doesn't feel that way, although living in a city where one tends to always hear the reasons why seemingly normal things like providing basic infrastructure (recreational, transportation, etc.) can't be done obviously shapes my feelings on the matter.

Same here. I've travelled quite a bit all over the world, and Canada definitely feels "middling" among the world's wealthier countries, as opposed to a front-runner.

[mistercorporate]

The typical Canadian family has a spacious detached house with nice fixtures (by world standards), two cars and a small cottage or home they'll inherit from their parents. Also some money for their retirement. The average Brit family has a tiny townhouse, maybe one car and little else. The UK is one of the world's most recent imperial nations so they have tons of community/public infrastructure. Very few countries can offer Canada/Australia/NZ/US levels of material prosperity without oil. The dividends of exploiting a whole continent depopulated of its original inhabitants have been quite fruitful and will continue to be till we max out the living space.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The typical Canadian family has a spacious detached house with nice fixtures (by world standards), two cars and a small cottage or home they'll inherit from their parents. Also some money for their retirement. The average Brit family has a tiny townhouse, maybe one car and little else. The UK is one of the world's most recent imperial nations so they have tons of community/public infrastructure. Very few countries can offer Canada/Australia/NZ/US levels of material prosperity without oil. The dividends of exploiting a whole continent depopulated of its original inhabitants have been quite fruitful and will continue to be till we max out the living space.

Interesting you should mention community and public infrastructure. I find this is one area where Canada often doesn't look too good. We have shiny new stuff here and there, but for every new piece we cut the ribbon for, there seem to be at least 10 pieces in serious disrepair. This applies to schools, transit systems, roads, sidewalks, public buildings... basically everything "public".

[esquire]

^ mistercorporate is right in that your chances of owning a nice, big new house on a large yard are probably higher in Canada than in much of the rest of the world. But the state of the public realm seems to range from OK (the big 3 cities), borderline acceptable (the next dozen or so cities) to mediocre (almost everywhere else).

Canada may be a relatively wealthy country, but the towns and cities don't really project that all that well.