HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southeast


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #3301  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 4:43 PM
kevinlpugh's Avatar
kevinlpugh kevinlpugh is offline
Gump Watcher
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Montgomery
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSAHort View Post
There is a sign on the Cuco's on the eastern blvd. that says its moving to Chantilly Pkwy. by the Home Depot. Looks like there won't be anything on the blvd in a few years.
There's already nothing past the intersection of Vaughn and the Blvd. Soon East Montgomery will be in Macon County!
__________________
Representin' da Dirty Gump
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3302  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 7:16 PM
thoraudio's Avatar
thoraudio thoraudio is offline
Witty comment fail
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Prattville, Alabama
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlpugh View Post
There's already nothing past the intersection of Vaughn and the Blvd. Soon East Montgomery will be in Macon County!
Yep.... soon 'white flight' is gonna end up in Tuskegee..... and won't that be ironical.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3303  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 8:06 PM
OCA REP OCA REP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montgomery (Old Cloverdale)
Posts: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoraudio View Post
Yep.... soon 'white flight' is gonna end up in Tuskegee..... and won't that be ironical.
Absolutely! I have made that comment during conversations (in person) and maybe on here too. In person I generally get a blank stare back... like they cannot believe I said that!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3304  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 9:21 PM
hiijakd hiijakd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
but it is oh so true....i especially love making that comment to east side lovers that moved out there for "that" reason. it makes them squirmy and uncomfortable. then i tell them about how safe downtown is and how much i love walking at night down here and that sends them over the top with discomfort. I love it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3305  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 3:01 AM
neilson neilson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCA REP View Post
Absolutely! I have made that comment during conversations (in person) and maybe on here too. In person I generally get a blank stare back... like they cannot believe I said that!
They'll build up then when they realize they can't move away.

Hey? Condos at Eastchase? Could become MTG's Sandy Springs or Vinings.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3306  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 3:02 AM
neilson neilson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiijakd View Post
but it is oh so true....i especially love making that comment to east side lovers that moved out there for "that" reason. it makes them squirmy and uncomfortable. then i tell them about how safe downtown is and how much i love walking at night down here and that sends them over the top with discomfort. I love it.
They're not racist. They just all want their children to have "christian values" at those tiny "academies".
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3307  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 4:32 AM
bystander1's Avatar
bystander1 bystander1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: In the "Alley"
Posts: 1,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoraudio View Post
Yep.... soon 'white flight' is gonna end up in Tuskegee..... and won't that be ironical.


yes, come... COME!!
...and WELCOME!!...to TUSKEEGEEEEE ALABAMA!!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3308  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 4:31 PM
Dale Dale is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 4,776
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilson View Post
They're not racist. They just all want their children to have "christian values" at those tiny "academies".
Jeez, I had to wipe down my screen from all your contemptuous spittle.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3309  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 8:07 PM
neilson neilson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
Jeez, I had to wipe down my screen from all your contemptuous spittle.
Haha, it's sad that people still have this mentality in cities like Montgomery and Jackson, MS, for example. All to get away from black ppl and try and justify their closet racism through the guise of white, mainly protestant academies that are a rouse.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3310  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 8:25 PM
thoraudio's Avatar
thoraudio thoraudio is offline
Witty comment fail
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Prattville, Alabama
Posts: 2,906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
Jeez, I had to wipe down my screen from all your contemptuous spittle.
Dale, fyi, there is a very interesting post over in Skybar about trolls.

Just, in case, something, or someone brought that to mind.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3311  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2008, 9:26 PM
neilson neilson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by thoraudio View Post
Dale, fyi, there is a very interesting post over in Skybar about trolls.

Just, in case, something, or someone brought that to mind.
I was just making an honest point as to the farce that the bulk of christian academies and "white flight" in general is throughout the South. Thankfully, we're seeing the generational change of the guard for the better thanks to folks like you, bystander, and the rest. I thought my extremely thick sacrasm and wit were picked up on.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3312  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 1:42 AM
thoraudio's Avatar
thoraudio thoraudio is offline
Witty comment fail
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Prattville, Alabama
Posts: 2,906
well.... something certainly was thick.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3313  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 3:25 AM
kevinlpugh's Avatar
kevinlpugh kevinlpugh is offline
Gump Watcher
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Montgomery
Posts: 129
"White Flight"

I'm black and I'm trying to get away... And my kid recently went to one of those little academies... I HATE PUBLIC SCHOOLS!
__________________
Representin' da Dirty Gump
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3314  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 3:37 AM
hiijakd hiijakd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 201
i picked up on the sarcasm. i love it when those same people start a racist statement by saying "i'm not a racist but....." or " i have a "black" friend but they whisper the word black. it cracks me up that they think it is ok if you excuse yourself first. sorta like the church lady gossiping then saying "bless his heart."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3315  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 4:52 AM
neilson neilson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiijakd View Post
i picked up on the sarcasm. i love it when those same people start a racist statement by saying "i'm not a racist but....." or " i have a "black" friend but they whisper the word black. it cracks me up that they think it is ok if you excuse yourself first. sorta like the church lady gossiping then saying "bless his heart."
Thanks, and thoraudio's just giving me his trademark wit. See, at the end of the day I know he's got the market cornered on here with wit and I'm nowhere near his level. Glad I could give it a valiant effort and make some ppl smile, but the real master is always gonna be skeptic of me(and you know, things just wouldn't be the same on here if he wasn't).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3316  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 7:59 AM
philopdx philopdx is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Deep South
Posts: 1,275
Quote:
Originally Posted by neilson View Post
Haha, it's sad that people still have this mentality in cities like Montgomery and Jackson, MS, for example. All to get away from black ppl and try and justify their closet racism through the guise of white, mainly protestant academies that are a rouse.
Well, coming from the viewpoint of a 27-year AL resident that has secured refugee status on the left coast, I can tell you that Neilson is absolutely right about the private "academies" in town.

The Past

The story of public education in Montgomery is so sad. My mom went to Lanier and remembered the first six or seven black kids that were allowed to attend back in the 60's, and she was one of the few white kids who even spoke to them. In fact, she still remembers Mr. Carr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanier_...mery,_Alabama)

Of course, all the white parents panicked. At first, only the wealthiest white kids started attending private schools like Montgomery Academy on Vaughn Road, which was founded by, among others, Winton Blount. Incidentally, it is still about 90% white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_academy

So, over time, more academies like St. James, Catholic, ACA, etc. sprung up and the percentage of white students attending public schools declined steadily.

Eventually, a large segment of the upper-class white public lost all interest in funding public education, since they were paying for private schools out of their own pockets anyway. So what emerged was a vicious cycle of under-investment, which drove even middle-class kids out of the public school system, further shrinking the pool of concerned stakeholders come ballot-time.

This isn't just nebulous commentary on my part - as a student of Cloverdale Jr. High, I remember staring at the paint peeling off the walls, the rodents, the short circuits, the barely functioning heaters, the dearth of ANY technology in the classrooms besides an overhead projector, the dilapidated text books and above all else, the absolutely incompetent administration. The school was eventually closed by the state in 2002 due to gross underperformance.

I also remember EVERY funding proposal for public schools going down in flames, the last one I recall being the spectacular disintegration of the education lottery initiative put forth by Don Siegelman.

But at least they have evolution disclaimers stamped in front of the rotting science books.

So now, as a result of decades of starving the schools of funds, guess what? Montgomery now has a massive, unmanageable, young, poor criminal underclass with no marketable job skills. In trying to make their kids "safer", and in their teeth-gnashing efforts to keep "big liberal government" from draining their pocketbooks, white cultural conservatives have inadvertently made everyone in Montgomery considerably less safe. What irony! Talk about "thick"! http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime1.aspx

The Future?

Now, all hope is not lost. Electing Mayor Bright, I think, was a tepid step in the right direction, as he is trying to push for redevelopment of the downtown core and also generally avoids raiding adult novelty shops with the SWAT team and waving dildo contraband in front of the evening news cameras as his predecessor Emory Folmar was so apt to do.

Also, the establishment of Hyundai as an economic and cultural beachhead into the 21st century is a tremendously positive development to the area. One can now get some decent Kimchi, Yakisoba or Bi Bim Bop around town, which was unheard of five or ten years ago; though getting the culinary denizens of Montgomery to break out of their Golden Corral blinders may take a miracle.

I also think that the massive recent influx of Hispanic immigrants can only mean good things for Montgomery's future, especially if it can help dislodge the intransigent, plantation mindset of the Soul-Brotha Hatfields and Country-Club McCoys with a few deftly placed burritos and politically active Catholic churches.

In addition, the continued presence of the military personnel from Maxwell (and Annex) is also a tremendous cultural boon to the area. Although Air Force officers are generally known for being culturally conservative elsewhere; in lower Alabama, their presence is a moderating force. In this neck o' the woods, their total unawareness of the significance of Nathan Bedford Forrest alone makes them progressive ambassadors from another time and place, even if that place is Sheboygan.

So, then, the groundwork has been laid for the Gump to one day break out of its torpor. With the implementation few more progressive policies like bike paths and lanes, urban renewal zones, and <GASP> perhaps an urban-growth boundary, Montgomery just might launch itself into the 21st century and eventually turn away from the car-centric, mid-century, strip-mall, low-rise, gated-subdivision, let's-run-for-Elmore-County-as-fast-as-our-Ford-Expedition-can-take-us mentality like some other parts of the country started turning away from ten to fifteen years ago. One way that starts is by voting for the right people, from state representatives on up to the highest offices.

HINT: That means stop voting people in that have a "Jr." or "III" behind their name. I'm lookin' at y'all Hooper, Wallace, Folsom and Blount!

And, if that happens, Montgomery might, and I say just might, stop driving away its smartest, most successful young people to far-off climes in droves.

Yes you can, Montgomery!

Last edited by philopdx; Aug 9, 2008 at 9:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3317  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 2:20 PM
montman montman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 34
WOW philopdx, I am not sure where to begin. First, I agree with your statements concerning the public's lack of support of public education, but you might need to know who did not support tax initiatives. Being a 59 year resident of Montgomery, one of those kids from the 60's who graduated from Lee High School and taught at Lanier for 15 years, I have some data for you. Data from both major attempts to raise taxes for public education in Montgomery County show interesting facts. First, the people living in the area I grew up in, Capitol Heights, plus Highland Gardens, Dalraida, Morningview, etc. voted soundly against both attempts. In addition, the people who stood the most to gain from money for public schools, African Americans living on the west side of Montgomery, voted against. The east side of Montgomery to include most of the people whose children attend Saint James, Montgomery Academy, or Trinity, voted soundly for the taxes. In fact, I have copies of the full page article sponsored by the Board of Saint James and Montgomery Academy supporting a yes vote. So, first know your facts. By the way, Saint James and The Academy were founded long before public schools in Montgomey were integrated. In fact, about 10 years before.
There is no doubt that white flight has and is a problem in Montgomery. I could not agree with you more that there are "Butler Building Academies" that exist for the wrong reasons. However, if you again look at the demographic data about our city, you will find that the flight in 2008 is more about economics now than race. My brother, who has been in real estate in the city for over 30 years will tell you that there is no neighborhood in Montgomery that is not a mixed neighborhood. Certainly, some more than others. The deal is though, that Blacks and Whites are now segregating themselves by class or economics. Montgomery is not unusual in this. If you look at any mid size city in America, this is happening.
I grew up in Aparteid Montgomery. I remember when Blacks pretty much stayed on Monroe Street downtown while Dexter was reserved for Whites. I remember separate lunch counters and drinking fountains. Let me tell you, Montgomery has come a long way. Is there more to do, you bet. Are we where we need to be, no. But I love this city and can tell you, from the perspective of those of us who have not chosen to become a "refugee" this city will continue to be a great one. Eastward movement will continue, buildings will be emptied to build new ones, gated communities will exists, but the city will continue to grow together and move upward. Downtown is coming alive, public schools are in general improving. By the way, I resent your extremely prejudice words about a "massive, unmanageable, young, poor criminal underclass." Public schools in Montgomery, Alabama, and America are struggling, but I don't believe Alabama would be number one in industrial recruitment if the work force were not a great one. Those of us who mentor the young people of our city are choosing to help, not just talk about the need to educate all young people in our city.
I worry that your tone is so negative about our city. Perhaps you do not have the full perspective to understand everything about which you wrote. Certainly, if you do not live or work in Montgomery, it would be difficult for you to have the perspective you need to fully understand. Perhaps, if we speak intelligently about the many problems in Montgomery, positively about the wonderful people who by far make up our population, and work to improve, we would accomplish more than speaking with what I perceive venom and prejudice.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3318  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 5:09 PM
Capital Heights's Avatar
Capital Heights Capital Heights is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by philopdx View Post
Well, coming from the viewpoint of a 27-year AL resident that has secured refugee status on the left coast, I can tell you that Neilson is absolutely right about the private "academies" in town.

The Past

The story of public education in Montgomery is so sad. My mom went to Lanier and remembered the first six or seven black kids that were allowed to attend back in the 60's, and she was one of the few white kids who even spoke to them. In fact, she still remembers Mr. Carr. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanier_...mery,_Alabama)

Of course, all the white parents panicked. At first, only the wealthiest white kids started attending private schools like Montgomery Academy on Vaughn Road, which was founded by, among others, Winton Blount. Incidentally, it is still about 90% white.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_academy

So, over time, more academies like St. James, Catholic, ACA, etc. sprung up and the percentage of white students attending public schools declined steadily.

Eventually, a large segment of the upper-class white public lost all interest in funding public education, since they were paying for private schools out of their own pockets anyway. So what emerged was a vicious cycle of under-investment, which drove even middle-class kids out of the public school system, further shrinking the pool of concerned stakeholders come ballot-time.

This isn't just nebulous commentary on my part - as a student of Cloverdale Jr. High, I remember staring at the paint peeling off the walls, the rodents, the short circuits, the barely functioning heaters, the dearth of ANY technology in the classrooms besides an overhead projector, the dilapidated text books and above all else, the absolutely incompetent administration. The school was eventually closed by the state in 2002 due to gross underperformance.

I also remember EVERY funding proposal for public schools going down in flames, the last one I recall being the spectacular disintegration of the education lottery initiative put forth by Don Siegelman.

But at least they have evolution disclaimers stamped in front of the rotting science books.

So now, as a result of decades of starving the schools of funds, guess what? Montgomery now has a massive, unmanageable, young, poor criminal underclass with no marketable job skills. In trying to make their kids "safer", and in their teeth-gnashing efforts to keep "big liberal government" from draining their pocketbooks, white cultural conservatives have inadvertently made everyone in Montgomery considerably less safe. What irony! Talk about "thick"! http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/crime1.aspx

The Future?

Now, all hope is not lost. Electing Mayor Bright, I think, was a tepid step in the right direction, as he is trying to push for redevelopment of the downtown core and also generally avoids raiding adult novelty shops with the SWAT team and waving dildo contraband in front of the evening news cameras as his predecessor Emory Folmar was so apt to do.

Also, the establishment of Hyundai as an economic and cultural beachhead into the 21st century is a tremendously positive development to the area. One can now get some decent Kimchi, Yakisoba or Bi Bim Bop around town, which was unheard of five or ten years ago; though getting the culinary denizens of Montgomery to break out of their Golden Corral blinders may take a miracle.

I also think that the massive recent influx of Hispanic immigrants can only mean good things for Montgomery's future, especially if it can help dislodge the intransigent, plantation mindset of the Soul-Brotha Hatfields and Country-Club McCoys with a few deftly placed burritos and politically active Catholic churches.

In addition, the continued presence of the military personnel from Maxwell (and Annex) is also a tremendous cultural boon to the area. Although Air Force officers are generally known for being culturally conservative elsewhere; in lower Alabama, their presence is a moderating force. In this neck o' the woods, their total unawareness of the significance of Nathan Bedford Forrest alone makes them progressive ambassadors from another time and place, even if that place is Sheboygan.

So, then, the groundwork has been laid for the Gump to one day break out of its torpor. With the implementation few more progressive policies like bike paths and lanes, urban renewal zones, and <GASP> perhaps an urban-growth boundary, Montgomery just might launch itself into the 21st century and eventually turn away from the car-centric, mid-century, strip-mall, low-rise, gated-subdivision, let's-run-for-Elmore-County-as-fast-as-our-Ford-Expedition-can-take-us mentality like some other parts of the country started turning away from ten to fifteen years ago. One way that starts is by voting for the right people, from state representatives on up to the highest offices.

HINT: That means stop voting people in that have a "Jr." or "III" behind their name. I'm lookin' at y'all Hooper, Wallace, Folsom and Blount!

And, if that happens, Montgomery might, and I say just might, stop driving away its smartest, most successful young people to far-off climes in droves.

Yes you can, Montgomery!
Damn....I wish I had written that. I absolutely, 100%, totally agree with every word of your statement. Amen, brother.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3319  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 5:19 PM
OCA REP OCA REP is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montgomery (Old Cloverdale)
Posts: 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by philopdx View Post
Well, coming from the viewpoint of a 27-year AL resident that has secured refugee status on the left coast, I can tell you that Neilson is absolutely right about the private "academies" in town...
Quote:
Originally Posted by montman View Post
WOW philopdx, I am not sure where to begin...
I think both of you made some pretty good observations and points. I am not going to dissect each of your comments point by point, but I agree with parts of each.

Thanks neilson for prompting this discussion (I think). Your mixture of TRUTH and SARCASM was very interesting...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3320  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2008, 9:51 PM
neilson neilson is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweet Home Alabama
Posts: 2,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCA REP View Post
I think both of you made some pretty good observations and points. I am not going to dissect each of your comments point by point, but I agree with parts of each.

Thanks neilson for prompting this discussion (I think). Your mixture of TRUTH and SARCASM was very interesting...
Thank you guys, it was just something smart to bring up and find out how backwards that time period really was(along with the relics that still remain today). It's folks like you that are making changes for the best, and it makes everyone feel pretty damn good about MGM's chances going forward. You'll be at Huntsville's level yet.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Southeast
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:31 PM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.