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  #121  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2013, 5:20 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I'll take a crack at it. Street grid design with main (medium density residential and main street type commercial), secondary (townhomes) and local (single family) arteries with a natural flow of buses on the main (and possibly a few routes on secondary) heading towards rapid transit stations at key areas (where we would find park and rides and employment area, but with some after ours interest à la downtown instead of just banal office blocks with no retail/restaurants, surrounded by parking.)
But the mechanism for creating main streets is broken. The time when small entrepreneur/proprietors bought individual lots and built their own buildings is long gone. Nowadays the huge tracts of soon-to-be-suburbia are all owned by huge corporations and the fastest buck to be made is to hand over commercial development to other large corporations who want control of their properties as private holdings instead of creating places that could be construed as public domain. The city is basically powerless if developers refuse to build a better model.

The sad thing is corporations are buying up property along old main streets and consolidating small properties in what is a dwindling resource for small business incubation. After they've gentrified all our main streets, where will the funky dives and eclectic shops be able to set up?

Last edited by Kitchissippi; Jun 26, 2013 at 11:14 AM.
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  #122  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2013, 6:50 PM
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What would your version of a "better suburb" be? I ask because I wonder is it political will or is it just people want the kind of suburbs they have now rather than your version?
Street layouts which, at the macro-level, favour linearity and rectilinearity, over curvilinearity. Neighbourhoods which are built to the same internal compass-point orientations, so that you know the next street over runs the same way. Variations from this rule only for interests' sake such as prospects or squares, or where topography demands it.

Street layouts which, at the micro level allow for easy movement and intuitive navigation by ALL modes of transport. Curvilinear crap suburbs do not.

An end to mass-segregation of land uses, other than for noxious or noisome industry. Commercial and institutional development directed, at higher densities than is presently the case, along main STREETS, not main drags or "power centres" or strip malls.

Smarter green spaces. Parks that serve a function other than satisifying some imaginary rote formula for how much green space a "community" is supposed to have, and other than making a planning drawing look pretty.

Urban design, not suburban. Smaller setbacks. Finer grains. Variety. Not massive setbacks, coarse grains, and architectural and land-use monoculture.

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As for taxes; what is onerous? They seem pretty high to me. I also always thought suburbanites were getting a relatively good deal property tax wise
They are, but they are convinced, despite the subsidization of the suburbs, that they are getting ripped off. This only adds to the political power of the small-c conservatives who are also the people most likely to oppose urban development, and most likely to approve more crapurbs.
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  #123  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2013, 6:51 PM
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But the mechanism for creating main streets is broken. The time when small entrepreneur/proprietors bought individual lots and built their own buildings is long gone. Nowadays the huge tracts of soon-to-be-suburbia are all owned by huge corporations and the fastest buck to be made is to hand over commercial development to other large corporations who want control of their properties as private holdings instead of creating that could be construed as public domain. The city is basically powerless if developers refuse to build a better model.
The city doesn't have to approve crapurban layouts. It is under no obligation to do so. In fact, it has the power to lay out streets.
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  #124  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2013, 8:54 PM
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The sad thing is corporations are buying up property along old main streets and consolidating small properties in what is a dwindling resource for small business incubation. After they've've gentrified all our main streets, where will the funky dives and eclectic shops be able to set up?
In formerly residential houses on streets off the older traditional main streets. Want to hear real NIMBYism in action, relax zoning and let small business start to buy suburban houses and operate on those side streets like they do in central neighbourhoods.
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  #125  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2013, 9:28 PM
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In formerly residential houses on streets off the older traditional main streets. Want to hear real NIMBYism in action, relax zoning and let small business start to buy suburban houses and operate on those side streets like they do in central neighbourhoods.
That's exactly the sort of natural evolution that needs to be allowed. But there'd be no end of dead children.
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  #126  
Old Posted Jun 25, 2013, 9:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
But the mechanism for creating main streets is broken. The time when small entrepreneur/proprietors bought individual lots and built their own buildings is long gone. Nowadays the huge tracts of soon-to-be-suburbia are all owned by huge corporations and the fastest buck to be made is to hand over commercial development to other large corporations who want control of their properties as private holdings instead of creating that could be construed as public domain. The city is basically powerless if developers refuse to build a better model.

The sad thing is corporations are buying up property along old main streets and consolidating small properties in what is a dwindling resource for small business incubation. After they've've gentrified all our main streets, where will the funky dives and eclectic shops be able to set up?
You're right; even with more effort from city politicians, the burbs' will never be West Wellington, Wesboro or Bank Street. The best we could hope for are more developments like Kanata Centrum, sort of a faux Byward Market.
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  #127  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 4:08 AM
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You're right; even with more effort from city politicians, the burbs' will never be West Wellington, Wesboro or Bank Street. The best we could hope for are more developments like Kanata Centrum, sort of a faux Byward Market.
In what way - other than the presence of stores - does Kanata Centrum even remotely resemble a faux Byward Market?
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  #128  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 4:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitchissippi View Post
The sad thing is corporations are buying up property along old main streets and consolidating small properties in what is a dwindling resource for small business incubation. After they've've gentrified all our main streets, where will the funky dives and eclectic shops be able to set up?
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In formerly residential houses on streets off the older traditional main streets.
Are we talking about the same city, here? Those "formerly residential houses on streets off the older traditional main streets" are not going to be transformed into eclectic shops; they're going to be knocked down and turned into semi-McMansions. That's how it works here.


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Want to hear real NIMBYism in action, relax zoning and let small business start to buy suburban houses and operate on those side streets like they do in central neighbourhoods.
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
That's exactly the sort of natural evolution that needs to be allowed. But there'd be no end of dead children.
Ever been along Maitland or Woodroffe (Carling to Baseline for both)? People don't like buying places on roads like that, children or not. But it's not like would-be small businesses do either.

Those two roads have had decades to see redevelopment occur to replace the housing with something, well, non-monocultural... and it hasn't happened yet. Given that the planning department hasn't run into a rezoning request it hasn't bent over backwards to accommodate (including in suburban areas), it's not like zoning is holding it all back, either.

So Kitchissippi's original question remains valid: we're losing the diverse, eclectic areas like Westboro (yes, it used to be such a place) and Hintonburg to gentrification but we're not seeing it extend into other areas.

And it's not just traditional mainstreets where this is occurring. Carling from Pinecrest to Bayshore is getting gentrified in the sense that corporate box stores (Shoppers and Rexall, together!) are replacing older suburban strip malls with their cheap digs and sometimes quite diverse tenants.
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  #129  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 12:01 PM
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You're right; even with more effort from city politicians, the burbs' will never be West Wellington, Wesboro or Bank Street. The best we could hope for are more developments like Kanata Centrum, sort of a faux Byward Market.
Of course I'm not referring to the actual farmer's market. But come on, a pedestrian area (Market is obviously not pedestrian only, but it might as well be) with low buildings, smaller type stores and restaurants.

You can't not understand what I am saying here. I'm just saying it is the closest thing to the Market district you will find in suburban hell.
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  #130  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 7:27 PM
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From the technical briefing happening right now:

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David Reevely live ‏@ReevelyLive 20m
Deans says planning the system actually requires station names by the end of August. Have to be plugged in early to the computers.

David Reevely live ‏@ReevelyLive 19m
Naming the actual line is not so urgent, funnily enough, so that'll take a bit longer.

David Reevely live ‏@ReevelyLive 19m
There'll be consultations and whatnot in July.

David Reevely live ‏@ReevelyLive 19m
Map in the room names Downtown East station "Parliament.

David Reevely live ‏@ReevelyLive 19m
" and the Downtown West station "Kent."

David Reevely live ‏@ReevelyLive 18m
At a glance, I didn't see other changes. Well, "Tunney's Pasture" is just labelled "Tunney's."
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  #131  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 7:32 PM
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From the tweets, the proposals are:
Tunney's (no "Pasture")
Bayview
LeBreton is to be renamed, in consultation with Algonquin FN to select a name expressing aboriginal heritage.
Kent
Parliament
Rideau
uOttawa
Lees
Hurdman
Tremblay
St. Laurent
Cyrville
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  #132  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Of course I'm not referring to the actual farmer's market. But come on, a pedestrian area (Market is obviously not pedestrian only, but it might as well be) with low buildings, smaller type stores and restaurants.

You can't not understand what I am saying here. I'm just saying it is the closest thing to the Market district you will find in suburban hell.
Centrum, with its ample parking, buildings oriented towards the parking lots, and away from the transit station and pedestrian walkways, is not much of a pedestrian area.
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  #133  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 8:05 PM
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semi-official map of Ottawa's future LRT system

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  #134  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 8:22 PM
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thanks, but it's missing a big "Here Be Dragons" on the left-hand side, though...
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  #135  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 9:31 PM
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I like the names. I really hope they go with just 'Parliament' for that station. All of our Stations now are English names (except the few that are meant to be French names) and it works. When they announce the French variant it works. Just because we are going to have an LRT line doesn't mean we have to make all the stations bilingual names... I think that will be ridiculous. So far we haven't had a problem with our BRT names, why change them now?
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  #136  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 9:34 PM
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Looking at this is disappointing. I hope they start the Tunney's to Baseline link in 2017 as soon as Tunney's to Blair is complete.
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  #137  
Old Posted Jun 26, 2013, 11:36 PM
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Looking at this is disappointing. I hope they start the Tunney's to Baseline link in 2017 as soon as Tunney's to Blair is complete.
What's really depressing is how very un-urban the urban transit system is, or will be. Five, maybe six LRT stations (including O-Train) in the pre-war city; all the rest in either post-war suburban areas, or areas that were wiped clean by previous rounds or master planning.

And the priorities for expansion, for decades, are all out to the further and outer suburbs. Unless the Political Will and Money Fairies get together in a big way, there won't be mass transit in any downtown residential or main-street area this century. Just buses.
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  #138  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 12:50 AM
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When it comes to the naming of stations, the only thing that really bothers me is not calling the station in Lebreton Flats "Lebreton". Perhaps "Booth" could work, but Lebreton is the most appropriate name in my opinion. Sounds like they wanted names that really speak to the area it's located in; names that won't confuse riders. Using an Algonquin name that nobody knows will do just that. If they want to pay homage to the Algonquins they should call the current O-Train line the Algonquin Line and keep the Lebreton Flats Station as "Lebreton".
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  #139  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 2:15 AM
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New light-rail system takes shape

By David Reevely, OTTAWA CITIZEN June 26, 2013 8:11 PM


OTTAWA — In a briefing Wednesday afternoon, OC Transpo revealed big plans for the light-rail line that’s now in the early stages of construction.

New names all around

When the new light-rail system opens in 2018, say goodbye to Tunney’s Pasture, LeBreton and Campus transit stations. Train, don’t let the door hit you on the caboose. Ottawa’s transit planners are working on fixing confusing and obsolete station names as they get ready for what they hope will be a “world-class” transit experience, one that’s pleasant to use and, above all, simple.

That means finding names that tell more of a story about where they are, said planner Pat Scrimgeour in a Wednesday afternoon briefing. Riders “need to know where they are as a train pulls into the station,” he said. Destination screens on buses should be comprehensible in an instant, even to people who aren’t that familiar with Ottawa.

Tunney’s Pasture is becoming the snappier Tunney’s, which is also slightly more bilingual. LeBreton is at LeBreton Flats, which is OK, but it’s not at LeBreton Street, and anyway that rail station is to have an aboriginal theme, so a name is being worked out with the Algonquins of Ontario (but isn’t settled yet).

The dull Downtown West label for the system’s western underground station, which has been used in planning, is to become the dull but more informative Kent. Downtown East is becoming Parliament/Parlement.

East of downtown, Campus station is becoming uOttawa. “We have several campuses in Ottawa,” Scrimgeour explained, and eventually the very same line is supposed to serve both the University of Ottawa and Algonquin College. They fooled around with variations of “University of Ottawa,” but they were all redundant or less clear than the university’s own preference.



And farther east, the fiasco of the Train station station will end when it’s renamed Tremblay. The confusing name was set to get even worse as the same station featured both Via trains and the city’s light rail.

Naming the whole line

The city’s been calling the new LRT the “Confederation Line” during planning but that’s up for grabs. We’ll need a name both for the overall system (something as generic as Toronto’s “subway” or Montreal’s “métro,” or a little more locally distinctive like Calgary’s “C-Train”) and the multiple individual lines Ottawa expects to build.

Should the lines be given colours? Numbers? Fancier names like Vancouver’s Millennium, Canada and Evergreen lines? That’s to be decided.

Advertising

OC Transpo is ruling out advertising on the outsides of trains. It just doesn’t bring in enough money ($200,000 a year at the most, according to estimates, and probably less) to justify the trouble of applying and removing the “wrap” ads that bring in the most. They do surprising damage to doors and window gaskets and with the city in a complex contract with the Rideau Transit Group to maintain the trains, having the contractor be forced to contend with problems created at the city’s behest is too much of a pain.

Interior advertising at stations is about as lucrative and poses fewer problems, so OC Transpo intends to allow it, but not for the first five years the rail system operates. The space reserved for ads will instead be used for information on how to use the trains and other public-service messages aimed at establishing a new transit culture in Ottawa. That means the kind of things riders in long-established subways are used to, like walking left and standing right on escalators.

Riders have strong habits, explained OC Transpo’s customer-service chief David Pepper, who prides himself on being a habitual transit user. “Sometimes when we’re asked to change those habits, we’re resistant.”

Retail in stations

Places will be reserved for retailers but there’s a global decline in stores inside train stations, with many of them closing up for good. The intent is to keep locations for kiosk-based vendors, ones that might be open only at rush hours — dry-cleaning operations in the mornings, flower-sellers in the evenings. Nobody knows for sure what retailing will look like in five years, so this should allow some flexibility, OC Transpo figures.

Designs of trains

The basic shape of the trains the city’s buying, Alstom’s Citadis Spirit model, isn’t up for grabs but the interior configuration is flexible. The city’s aiming for an uncluttered interior with a simple colour scheme and eight spots per train where seats fold up to make way for wheelchairs, bikes or other cargo when trains aren’t crowded.

How to have your say

Many of these matters have to be settled at a transit commission meeting Aug. 21 so Alstom can start building the trains to Ottawa’s specifications and the control systems can be programmed with the right names (which has to be done very early).

First, the city’s transit commission has to approve the general outline of the plan, which it’s slated to do at a meeting July 3 where the public can speak. Between then and its August meeting, the city plans consultations online (including with recordings of the new station names to see how they sound), through leaflets, and possibly in local public meetings.

dreevely@ottawacitizen.com

ottawacitizen.com/greaterottawa
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/light+r...#ixzz2XNXoN9Zd
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  #140  
Old Posted Jun 27, 2013, 3:26 AM
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I am looking forward to a station name that is difficult to pronounce for the average resident, let alone having nothing to do with the location it serves. But we must be politically correct.

Perhaps, we should name each station after a different Conservative Prime Minister. Where should Stephen Harper station be located?

Funny, how Kent station is located at Lyon Street on the map.
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