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View Poll Results: Which transbay tower design scheme do you like best?
#1 Richard Rogers 40 8.05%
#2 Cesar Pelli 99 19.92%
#3 SOM 358 72.03%
Voters: 497. You may not vote on this poll

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  #461  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2007, 5:31 PM
nequidnimis nequidnimis is offline
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By all means. That's the reason for my posting it.
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  #462  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2007, 7:25 PM
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Also, I have a couple other points that can be added (I won't be able to attend the meeting tonight)

1 - Environment - Building dense housing/offices here increases the pool of housing for people to choose from. This will provide more options for those people who may have otherwise chosen to live in the suburbs and commute to and from the city to work by car. This, coupled with the fact that the area has excellent public transportation within walking distance will reduce the reliance over the long-run on the automobile and will help SF curb carbon emissions and suburban sprawl (destruction of open spaces).

2 - Neighborhood Preservation - For all the preservation activists in the city, this will help ease the housing crunch. By building smartly (high density in an underutilized area) it will reduce demand in other areas. For all of those preservationists who are concerned about destroying old victorians in Pac Heights, Noe Valley, etc, this is an answer.
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  #463  
Old Posted Jul 25, 2007, 8:17 PM
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For more detailed background regarding Transbay Redevelopement, look here:
http://www.sfgov.org/site/sfra_page.asp?id=5583

Much of this material has already be discussed here on SSP.

The transit hub area around 4th and King will also be given attention at the workshops. See SSP Forum discussion here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=133568

Last edited by SFView; Jul 25, 2007 at 8:24 PM. Reason: additional information
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  #464  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 3:33 AM
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Back from the meeting. My camera actually turned on before I left the house, and was left on, so when I got there it was completely DEAD But.. there wasn't too much to take pictures of, and nothing that we haven't seen or read already.

The whole meeting was basically some guy, who was a very good speaker, standing at the podium generalizing the TransBay and Downtown plans pre- and post- Embarcadero Freeway, and how the city wants to change the density and height limits in the areas that are state owned (the bus overpasses, for example) and that these are really the only unspoken for parcels downtown, thus the intense planning process and public input necessary to begin development of this vital area. He said that this area needs to be dealt with in a mindset that looks toward the future. He also brought up something which I thought was very intriguing: that if height limits are raised and density increased in this area, that San Francisco can provide more competitive office space that is currently in Silicon Valley, thus bringing more business and jobs right downtown, which is the goal of the TransBay development plans.

He explained that the TJPA and City Planning commission has discussed raising height limits for the signature tower above the current 550' to 850', and possible 1000+ feet. The environmental review process will begin and will continue onto the next six months, so that when the planning commission decides how tall and what type of tower to build, those reports and reviews will already be taken care of.

I stayed for a little while for some of the questions. The ones who spoke while I was still there seemed to be very supportive of a very tall, beautiful tower, or at least had no open qualms about that. Their main concerns were providing enough underground transportation to be able to support the dense populations that will inhabit this area when all of these towers open, and one guy asked why there is no AmTrak or other express train service taking people directly to downtown SF, and that this is a major issue with tourists flying in, most likely to the Oakland Airport and San Jose, and taking in AmTrak (the station is in Emeryville and there is a very slow bus that drops people off at the Ferry Building).

The meeting was very brief and introductory, so there were no workshops or thorough discussions. The real date to mark is Aug 6, when the designs will be unveiled. These had better be immaculate so that the public will accept something 1000+ ft.

I think it very important that everybody take time off of whatever they are doing and plan ahead to attend these meetings, as we need as much of the support we can get for a 21st century world class anti- NIMBY downtown core.

Last edited by tyler82; Jul 26, 2007 at 3:50 AM.
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  #465  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 3:57 AM
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Thank you so much for the prompt and well documented feed back--you're our hero tonight!
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  #466  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 4:39 AM
nequidnimis nequidnimis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
I think it very important that everybody take time off of whatever they are doing and plan ahead to attend these meetings, as we need as much of the support we can get for a 21st century world class anti- NIMBY downtown core.
Yes, everybody's support here will be required to help turn San Francisco into a 21st century world class city, like Shangai, Taipei, Moscow, New York or Dubai... Also, our elected officials should take field trips to see how officials do it there.

Last edited by nequidnimis; Jul 26, 2007 at 5:21 AM.
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  #467  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 4:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nequidnimis View Post
Yes, everybody's support here will be required to help turn San Francisco into a 21st century world class city, like Shangai, Taipei, Moscow, New York or Dubai...


id rather live in sf than any of those cities

i soooo wanna come down and peek at those proposals
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  #468  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 5:33 AM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
one guy asked why there is no AmTrak or other express train service taking people directly to downtown SF, and that this is a major issue with tourists flying in, most likely to the Oakland Airport and San Jose, and taking in AmTrak (the station is in Emeryville and there is a very slow bus that drops people off at the Ferry Building).
A clarification: As somebody who takes AMTRAK fairly regularly, I've got to point out that there is a very nice new, modern AMTRAK station in Emeryville which is on the main line of several major routes including LA to Seattle and Sacramento to San Jose, not at the end of a long peninsula like SF. Non-high speed train service to SF would necessarily involve a long (timewise) detour unless somebody wants to pay for a tunnel under the Bay for AMTRAK. Meanwhile, the bus isn't at all slow. It meets the train, takes maybe 20 minutes to get into the city and makes pickups/drops in 4 locations: In front of Boomingdales on Market St., the Ferry Bldg, Fisherman's Wharf and one more I can't remember. Actually, last time I used the bus I slipped the driver $10 and he let me off at my front door.

Emeryville Station

Last edited by BTinSF; Jul 26, 2007 at 5:42 AM.
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  #469  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 5:41 AM
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tyler82,

Great job! I am giving you my two thumbs up on this. Keep it going!
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  #470  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 6:01 AM
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Tyler, you left too early!

You missed the guy who went on and on about losing his views from Twin Peaks and the lady who complained about eminent domain stealing the building she is leasing.

Not too much new stuff at the meeting though.
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  #471  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 6:32 AM
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I too was at the meeting, and I must say it was preety informative. All went just like Tyler said so before. It seemed to me that most people had mass transit on their minds. Also, most of the people welcomed the idea of a tall transit tower (I recall one person mentioning 1500' and even 1800'), which is a very good sign. As usual, at least one person spoke about how the buildings would block the views of the Bay Bridge and such from the Twin Peaks. A few moments later, another gentleman spoke the complete oposite as an advocate to the towers (I sensed some tension between the two guys, heh). Another lady sitting near me was worried about what eminient domain would do to a historic building that she had been fighting to preseve as it sits on top of the proposed Caltrain extension tunnel. Also, I happen to sit right next to one of the architects of 45 Lansing who also spoke out about how buildings should be designed in the city, it was very informative to get such an insight. I wound up staying for the entire meeting, including all the question and comment time.

Overall, I was pretty satisfied and learned some new things in the process. I would say that at 20 years old, I was probably the youngest person there. However, I filled out a comment sheet to let them know my opinion as several of the TJPA members were present, along with Dean Macris. I look forward to August 6th, and will definetly attend that presentation as well.

Some shots that I took, or tried to take. My vantage point was not too good, but the slides shown were what we all have seen already, not much new. Sorry for the quality anyways .



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Last edited by Reminiscence; Jul 26, 2007 at 7:03 AM. Reason: Pictures Added
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  #472  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 7:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTinSF View Post
A clarification: As somebody who takes AMTRAK fairly regularly, I've got to point out that there is a very nice new, modern AMTRAK station in Emeryville which is on the main line of several major routes including LA to Seattle and Sacramento to San Jose, not at the end of a long peninsula like SF.
As somebody who takes Amtrak rarely, into Sacramento, to visit family, I can say that the current situation SUCKS. Anybody who defends having to pay a regular Amtrak fare from the city, to have to take a diesel bus across the bay bridge, having to deal with regular rush hour traffic to get to this destination, just go make it to an ACTUAL Amtrak station, is pitiful (the idea, not the person), to say the absolute least.

SF downtown (not Emeryville, or San Pablo, or Anytown, USA) needs to be THE transit center for the west coast, and nothing less.

What I left with from this meeting was a very positive outlook and much energy to transform this area into nothing less than SPECTACULAR! I walked out of the forum optimistic for the future, which is a really great place to start for all of us!

PS... the fact that SF GATE (as of now) has no mention of this meeting (front page news: SANJAYA!) shows just how in touch they are with the REAL SF community.

Last edited by tyler82; Jul 26, 2007 at 8:22 AM.
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  #473  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 8:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Gordo View Post
Tyler, you left too early!

You missed the guy who went on and on about losing his views from Twin Peaks and the lady who complained about eminent domain stealing the building she is leasing.

Not too much new stuff at the meeting though.
I have more important things to do in my life than to stick around and listen to petty arguments about some entitled snob's view being blocked
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  #474  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 5:44 PM
BTinSF BTinSF is offline
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As somebody who takes Amtrak rarely, into Sacramento, to visit family, I can say that the current situation SUCKS.
Do you have any idea how much longer it would take to get to Sacramento by train starting in SF? Several hours. You'd have to be crazy to do that vs. a 20 minute bus ride to Emeryville. Although even better is to take BART to Richmond and cross platform there to AMTRAK. Unfortunately, AMTRAK dropped Richmond as a stop for some of the long-distance trains like the Zephyr but I think the Capital Corridor still stops there. Anyway, it should.

Last edited by BTinSF; Jul 26, 2007 at 5:51 PM.
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  #475  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 6:30 PM
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Do you have any idea how much longer it would take to get to Sacramento by train starting in SF? Several hours. You'd have to be crazy to do that vs. a 20 minute bus ride to Emeryville. Although even better is to take BART to Richmond and cross platform there to AMTRAK. Unfortunately, AMTRAK dropped Richmond as a stop for some of the long-distance trains like the Zephyr but I think the Capital Corridor still stops there. Anyway, it should.
An Amtrak train from TransBay to Sacramento, if more underground tubes and tunnels were built, would be quicker than sitting on a bus in the parking lot that is the east bound bay bridge. It takes me 2 hours (at least) round trip if I want to drive to Oakland or Berkeley from my house in the Sunset, if I leave after 2pm on any given weekday. Weekends aren't any better. I stand by my claim!
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  #476  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 6:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
As somebody who takes Amtrak rarely, into Sacramento, to visit family, I can say that the current situation SUCKS. Anybody who defends having to pay a regular Amtrak fare from the city, to have to take a diesel bus across the bay bridge, having to deal with regular rush hour traffic to get to this destination, just go make it to an ACTUAL Amtrak station, is pitiful (the idea, not the person), to say the absolute least.
You could always catch BART to Richmond and board Amtrak there. The 2 stations are right next to each other if Im not mistaken.
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  #477  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 7:00 PM
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You could always catch BART to Richmond and board Amtrak there. The 2 stations are right next to each other if Im not mistaken.
My original point was that one of the forum attendees brought up a good point about people who are not from here, visiting SF and getting frustrated with the tedious transportation issues of getting downtown. Out of towners don't know where all the train stops and connections are, and since they spend buco bucks here, that is a big issue.

I can imagine the frustration of visitors before the BART extension was built to SFO, because that meant there was no direct way to get into downtown from outside of the Bay Area.

We've been 'outsourcing' too much of our city to other parts of the bay area, whether it be jobs to Silicon Valley, low cost airlines to Oakland Airport, Amtrak stations in the east bay, so on so on.

One other point I'd like to make is that, in the meeting, the planning commission's goal of getting more cars off the roads of downtown have failed, and that is because people from outside the city and the bay area find it easier to just drive across the bridge instead of having to take multiple methods of transport just to get downtown.
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  #478  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2007, 7:35 PM
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Reading some of the Socketsite comments, from what I gather one of the posters asked a question (after I had left) about when heights would be finalized, and was told in 6 months, after the environmental review process was complete.
If all works out according to plan, looks like we'll be getting a nice late Christmas/ New Year's present!
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  #479  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 2:25 AM
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Very good news - no protests or anything at the meeting!

People that were there - what sort of people were at the meeting? Was it mostly 'businessmen' or a whole mix?

Looking forward to the 6th...
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  #480  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2007, 2:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post
An Amtrak train from TransBay to Sacramento, if more underground tubes and tunnels were built, would be quicker than sitting on a bus in the parking lot that is the east bound bay bridge. It takes me 2 hours (at least) round trip if I want to drive to Oakland or Berkeley from my house in the Sunset, if I leave after 2pm on any given weekday. Weekends aren't any better. I stand by my claim!
By the time that happens, if it ever happens, you'll be able to fly to Sacramento in your personal hybrid helocar.

As I said and now several other people, consider BART to Richmond.
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