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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 3:50 AM
NBTX11 NBTX11 is offline
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SA Venue Tax - will kill chances to land pro team

Judge Wolff is pushing to use up all the venue tax funds on civic improvements. Good idea or bad?? Comments? It does appear to tie up these funds for the next 10-15 years and kill or seriously hurt SA's chances of landing another pro team, as those funds would be needed to build a stadium/upgrade the Alamodome. Unless they can find another revenue stream.

http://sanantonio.bizjournals.com/sanantonio/stories/2007/12/24/story4.html?b=1198472400^1567707

Venue-tax plans may hinder city's odds of snaring pro sports team

In January, Bexar County officials will begin to firm up a plan to present to voters later next year that could result in a lengthy extension of the venue tax to help fund an array of community projects, possibly including River Walk improvements and a new performing arts center.

But some critics warn that such a move would lock up for a decade or more a key funding mechanism that could be used to lure an NFL or Major League Baseball franchise to the Alamo City.

In 1997, state lawmakers created the venue tax as a mechanism to help Texas communities fund the construction of or improvement of certain projects, including arenas and stadiums. In 1999, Bexar County used that venue tax to construct AT&T Center, home of the defending NBA champion San Antonio Spurs.

It is a mechanism dependent on a combination of hotel occupancy and rental car taxes. In 2006, when local leaders were attempting to woo the Florida Marlins to San Antonio with the lure of a new ballpark, the venue tax was discussed as a potential funding source for such a stadium.

Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff, disappointed by the Marlins' decision to pass on San Antonio's offer, says he believes the Alamo City now has other priorities that need to take precedence over professional baseball or football.
"We have some other needs," he says.

A number of business and civic leaders agree.

Say good-bye
Some hospitality industry leaders believe that a 20-year extension of the venue tax could generate as much as $400 million or more in new revenues. They want $125 million of that to be earmarked for improvements to the San Antonio River.

Dozens of other groups have their own project proposal wish lists.

Wolff -- who made his run at the Marlins at roughly the same time that San Antonio Mayor Phil Hardberger was trying to convince the New Orleans Saints to turn a temporary visit into a permanent relocation -- says it's time to focus on some of those other projects.

"We've had some flirtations," Wolff says about the NFL and Major League Baseball. "I just don't trust those people anymore."

Former North San Antonio Chamber of Commerce Chairman T.J. Connolly, who previously spent some five years working for Saints owner Tom Benson, says this is not the time to close the door on the NFL especially.

"We may be the only city in America who truly auditioned for an NFL team with real games," Connolly says. "We showed the NFL our ability to not only fill seats but to generate corporate sponsor dollars. We demonstrated to the NFL that we are ready for prime time."

Connolly says he will work to oppose any extension of the venue tax if county leaders do not take into account San Antonio's future pro sports facility needs.
"We're at a crossroads right now," Connolly says. "I'm not sure San Antonians are ready to say good-bye to any new pro sports team for the next 20 years."
Tapped out?

San Antonio has a facility capable of accommodating an NFL team for a limited period of time -- perhaps longer with extensive upgrades. In 2005, the Saints played three regular season games in the 65,000-seat stadium.

But the Alamodome could be well over a quarter-century old by the time an extended venue tax expires.

According to Michael Sawaya, director of convention, sports and entertainment facilities for the city, there are no plans at present to dedicate any revenues from an extended venue tax toward Alamodome improvements.

Former Alamodome Director Mike Abington says San Antonio leaders need to extend the viability of the city's existing sports venues and keep their options open concerning any new facility needs.

"I'm not sure about the wisdom of maxing out that (venue tax) funding source for the next couple of decades," Abington says. "I think it would be wise to at least set aside a big portion of that money for the future."

Abington adds, "I'd hate to see us have to tell the NFL in a few years, 'Sorry. We used all that money on something else.'"


Sawaya says the Alamodome is still a viable building attractive to a number of high-profile users. But he understands that, like all stadiums, it has a shelf life. Sawaya says the Alamodome is still a viable building attractive to a number of high-profile users. But he understands that, like all stadiums, it has a shelf life.

When will that shelf life expire for the Alamodome?

"When people stop wanting to use it," Sawaya says.

Mixed emotions
Wolff believes there are still some stadium funding options available should a team take a serious enough interest in relocating to San Antonio.

One possibility, he says, is the same kind of tax increment financing plan that the Spurs proposed for a Northeast Side arena.

That plan stalled, however, and it took an offer of land, a venue tax plan from the county and voter approval to get the Spurs a new arena.

Abington says local leaders need to protect the viability of the Spurs, AT&T Center and the Alamodome. And he says they need to keep the doors open for any team that might look to relocate here.


Connolly says there is too much at stake for San Antonio to accept indefinitely its status as a one-horse sports town.

But while Wolff says he has not given up entirely on the notion of San Antonio expanding its pro sports presence beyond a single NBA franchise, he doesn't foresee that happening anytime soon.

Says Wolff, "I'm convinced we are 10 to 15 years away from (getting another) team. I've got some mixed emotions about all of this. But right now we have to address some other things."
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  #2  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:01 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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Talk about people trying to get an agenda across subtly. It's no surprise Connelly doesn't a Venue tax extension used on anything other than pro sports, he's the mouth piece for developers who are trying to make money off of any future pro teams in SA. Wolff is smart, he knows the improvement of quality of life in San Antonio is much more important than a pro team. Wolff was smart enough to realize that SA needed to be the one wanted not the one that wanted. The improvements that will come with this new venue tax (sans the 1/4 going to the Spurs/at&t center) will help to foster a much better quality of life for this city in the long run.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:10 AM
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But on the other hand it does seem to tell potential franchises, sorry we aren't interested, because we have no funds to upgrade alamodome or build new facility, a mandatory step in landing a franchise. I am all for making these other upgrades, but like Abbington suggested, keep some aside for when a team comes knocking on the door. And they will, unless they know SA has used up all it funds.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Talk about people trying to get an agenda across subtly. It's no surprise Connelly doesn't a Venue tax extension used on anything other than pro sports, he's the mouth piece for developers who are trying to make money off of any future pro teams in SA. Wolff is smart, he knows the improvement of quality of life in San Antonio is much more important than a pro team. Wolff was smart enough to realize that SA needed to be the one wanted not the one that wanted. The improvements that will come with this new venue tax (sans the 1/4 going to the Spurs/at&t center) will help to foster a much better quality of life for this city in the long run.
I couldn't have said it any better myself. The things they are talking about using the venue tax for are investments in downtown (riverwalk) and improvements to quality of life (arts). They could work out an agreement with UTSA to let them use the dome for football (one day).

Besides, if the residents of the city really want another pro franchise that requires building a stadium, then they can simply pay for it themselves (like they did with the dome). Let's see what kind of enthusiasm they have for sports then.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:26 AM
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Originally Posted by NBTX11 View Post
But on the other hand it does seem to tell potential franchises, sorry we aren't interested, because we have no funds to upgrade alamodome or build new facility, a mandatory step in landing a franchise. I am all for making these other upgrades, but like Abbington suggested, keep some aside for when a team comes knocking on the door. And they will, unless they know SA has used up all it funds.
No, the only funds that are not available are the ones that come from hotel and rental car taxes. If that is all the city has to offer then it tells franchises that they can't afford or are unwilling to pay for a team.
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  #6  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kornbread View Post
I couldn't have said it any better myself. The things they are talking about using the venue tax for are investments in downtown (riverwalk) and improvements to quality of life (arts). They could work out an agreement with UTSA to let them use the dome for football (one day).

Besides, if the residents of the city really want another pro franchise that requires building a stadium, then they can simply pay for it themselves (like they did with the dome). Let's see what kind of enthusiasm they have for sports then.
People don't mind paying for a new stadium if they think the other guy (ie: visitors) are footing the bill (for example the venue tax). Most people however don't want funds coming directly out of their pockets. That is why the venue tax is such a good deal, the taxpayers don't see it as a tax on them, but visitors using hotels.
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  #7  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:52 AM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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The venue tax wasn't and never will be the only option for funding a professional teams stadium. So anyone getting in an uproar about using the tax for something else and saying we're sh-t out of any other opinions is just being an alarmist.
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  #8  
Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBTX11 View Post
People don't mind paying for a new stadium if they think the other guy (ie: visitors) are footing the bill (for example the venue tax). Most people however don't want funds coming directly out of their pockets. That is why the venue tax is such a good deal, the taxpayers don't see it as a tax on them, but visitors using hotels.
The Alamodome was funded by tax payer dollars. When no team came as promised, the venue tax was a direct result of that failed promise.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:58 AM
kornbread kornbread is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NBTX11 View Post
People don't mind paying for a new stadium if they think the other guy (ie: visitors) are footing the bill (for example the venue tax). Most people however don't want funds coming directly out of their pockets. That is why the venue tax is such a good deal, the taxpayers don't see it as a tax on them, but visitors using hotels.
That's my point as well. If the city really wants a team, they should be willing to pay for it. If the only way they will support a team is if they think someone else is paying for it, it's not really support.

I'm glad the current city leaders are realist and are focusing their efforts towards something they have control over.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 3:38 PM
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Didn't SA have a chance to get a MLS team, but the mayor back then turned it down.

SA is booming by the way. I have a new respect for SA after being here (am still here until later on today).
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 5:46 PM
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Didn't SA have a chance to get a MLS team, but the mayor back then turned it down.
Yeah, the now Houston Dynamo were supposed to be in SA via San Jose but Mayor Hardberger wise and shot them down which was one of the first decisions that he made that was resoundingly applauded by the citizens of San Antonio.

Quote:
SA is booming by the way. I have a new respect for SA after being here (am still here until later on today).
That's really great to hear. One really can't understand unless they see it for themselves. If I may ask, what opened your eyes?
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 6:03 PM
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All of the dirt. I'm staying at my Uncle's house here on the NW side near Blanco. We were here for the Katy game. We swooped around 1604 from I-10 on the east side, and it is like on both sides of the freeway there are developments (new and under construction) everywhere. They all look real upscale. There are a lot of midrises around this side where he lives, too.

I'm going to get another look in about three hours as we leave, too.
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Old Posted Dec 23, 2007, 7:21 PM
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sirkingwilliam sirkingwilliam is offline
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I recommend, if you can, check out The Rim and The Shops. I went to The Rim for the first time in about a year and I was shocked at how big was and how much construction was going on. Also, check out Stone Oak if anything. Tell your uncle to drive Stone Oak Parkway from 1604 to 281.

Last edited by sirkingwilliam; Dec 23, 2007 at 7:35 PM.
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Old Posted Dec 24, 2007, 11:59 PM
kornbread kornbread is offline
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Originally Posted by sirkingwilliam View Post
Yeah, the now Houston Dynamo were supposed to be in SA via San Jose but Mayor Hardberger wise and shot them down which was one of the first decisions that he made that was resoundingly applauded by the citizens of San Antonio.
I thought San Antonio and MLS would have been a good fit. The city would have had someone using the dome. San Antonio would have had the chance to embrace a game that people actually play in south Texas (as opposed to hockey) for an affordable price.

I don't think the city resoundingly applauded the move. It was more likely applauded by those with delusions of getting an NFL team. Given the chance, I think MLS would have succeeded just like the ABA did.
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Old Posted Dec 25, 2007, 12:21 AM
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I thought San Antonio and MLS would have been a good fit. The city would have had someone using the dome. San Antonio would have had the chance to embrace a game that people actually play in south Texas (as opposed to hockey) for an affordable price.

I don't think the city resoundingly applauded the move. It was more likely applauded by those with delusions of getting an NFL team. Given the chance, I think MLS would have succeeded just like the ABA did.
No, I remember the move being greatly received because of what the former Mayor (Garza) was offering to the MLB. It was basically, we'll let you use the Dome (rent free for 20 years) and you keep all the money you make from using it.

Edit: Here it is:

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news...._mls&fext=.jsp

Quote:
The agreement also contains a detailed stadium plan in which the City of San Antonio has agreed to provide an MLS team with a facility appropriate for the sport, granting the club the rights to all ticket sales, certain sponsorship and stadium signage sales, stadium concessions/merchandise and parking, and the state-of-the art practice complex.
Basically, keep all the money you make.

I have no problem with the MLS and it seems the MLS really wanted/still does to be here but next time a better/more even deal needs to be laid out.
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Old Posted Dec 25, 2007, 2:33 AM
NBTX11 NBTX11 is offline
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No, San Antonio does not want Futbol, we want FOOTBALL. We made that very clear last time MLS tried coming here. Garza tried to bring in MLS and had a deal, but as soon as Hardberger came in he told mls to get lost. A decision that was widely accepted by SA. San Antonians want football, and are willing to wait for it, whether it be D1A football by UTSA or more preferably an NFL team. SA has proved over and over to be football mad and can support an NFL team. We do not want a second rate soccer league that has to bring in a washed up Beckham to draw any interest in the media whatsoever.
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Old Posted Dec 25, 2007, 5:01 AM
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No, San Antonio does not want Futbol, we want FOOTBALL. We made that very clear last time MLS tried coming here. Garza tried to bring in MLS and had a deal, but as soon as Hardberger came in he told mls to get lost. A decision that was widely accepted by SA. San Antonians want football, and are willing to wait for it, whether it be D1A football by UTSA or more preferably an NFL team. SA has proved over and over to be football mad and can support an NFL team. We do not want a second rate soccer league that has to bring in a washed up Beckham to draw any interest in the media whatsoever.
Shows how much you know about the MLS. You should check out some videos on the Houston Dynamo playoff games. There were crazy. 30,000+ screaming fans.
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Old Posted Dec 26, 2007, 3:36 PM
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Not surprised that people are arguing against culture and civic improvements in favor of OMG FOOTBALL HECK YEAH FOOTBALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111oneone
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