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View Poll Results: Which rapid transit line would you like to see most?
Hastings 32 15.69%
Vancouver - Other 70 34.31%
North Shore 40 19.61%
Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge 2 0.98%
Tsawwassen/Ferries 10 4.90%
Surrey - Guilford 16 7.84%
Surrey - Newton 11 5.39%
South Surrey/White Rock/Border 5 2.45%
Langley 10 4.90%
Abbotsford 5 2.45%
Other 3 1.47%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 5:16 AM
djh djh is offline
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If you build it they will come.

And then guess what happens on the North Shore mountains? You know that really ugly development creep that we can see from Vancouver, as they gradually log the mountains and build houses higher and higher up...?

So even though it would be nice to develop the North Shore, if the current development style is the future then I would prefer not. However, if city hall forces development of high-density condos (like around Lonsdale) and makes it prohibitively expensive to build 1/2 acre mansions in the hillls, then great.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 6:11 AM
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Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
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Just FYI, djh, there are three different municipalities in play here. There is West Vancouver, North Vancouver District, and City of North Vancouver. Of the three, the City of North Vancouver has been a proponent of high-density development over the years -- witness Lower Lonsdale, or the entire Lonsdale corridor for that matter. The District of North Vancouver, on the other hand, has been slower to embrace density... although some of the developments in Lynn Valley look to be a start.

Finally, West Vancouver definitely dances to a different drummer when it comes to planning and land use.
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 7:07 AM
deasine deasine is offline
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I guess that's why they are trying to start their own streetcar system.
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 7:46 AM
DubbleD DubbleD is offline
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Metro Vancouver Rail-Based transit alignments

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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 3:55 PM
eduardo88 eduardo88 is offline
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Originally Posted by DubbleD View Post
Looks alright, but i think SkyTrain should be extended all the way to Langley, don't really think the North Shore needs a rapid transit line (not in the next 15-20 anyway), and i'm not too sure about your cicle line.

I've made my own map. http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?ie=UTF...007e68404e52fb



What I've done is created:
* Downtown/Arbutus Streetcar line,
* Expo Line extention with spurs to Langley City and Newton
* Millenium Line extention to UBC, and removed it from looping to downtown (would not be needed with Expo Line expanded capacity) so it terminates at Columbia
* Evergreen Line as SkyTrain, however instead of it going to UBC, i've made it follow the M-Line route until Clark Dr, where it would follow the Grandview ROW into DT and then under Hastings until Waterfront Station
* Double-tracked WCE line using Bombardier TALENT trainsets (like Ottawa's O-Train)
* Commuter line to Abbotsford along Hwy 1 and then ROW above Burnaby Lake then joining WCE route at Second Narrows, which would be quite feasible having the trains run in the middle of Hwy 1 which has no at grade crossings allowing train to gain alot of speed (would use same trainsets as WCE)

The Bombardier TALENT trains the commuter lines would use look like this:

Last edited by eduardo88; Jan 22, 2008 at 4:16 PM. Reason: added map
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 7:31 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Other cities have shown that highway ROWs make poor locations for rapid transit because the median stations are not walkable or in dense areas. In addition, the median on the TCH will be disappearing with the widening for the Gateway project. If the twinned Port Mann is used for LRT service, the line should diverge from the highway ROW to serve more populated/developable areas close by, rather than staying in the highway ROW.
I think the old interurban line would be a better choice south of the Fraser - but would require a new rail bridge at New West to allow frequent service across the Fraser River.

++++++++++++

Guess its time to haul out the old Province newspaper articles again - dating from 1990. So remember that these
PREDATE Translink, the LRSP, the Westcoast Express and the M-Line.






Last edited by officedweller; Jan 22, 2008 at 9:16 PM.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 7:50 PM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Other cities have shown that highway ROWs make poor locations for rapid transit because the median stations are not walkable or in dense areas. In addition, the median on the TCH will be disappearing with the widening for the Gateway project. If the twinned Port Mann is used for LRT service, the line should diverge from the highway ROW to serve more populated/developable areas close by, rather than staying in the highway ROW.
I think the old interurban line would be a better choice south of the Fraser - but would require a new rail bridge at New West to allow frequent service across the Fraser River.
Completely agree. That's why I support an extension of the existing WCE into Abbotsford. Then we serve that whole huge population with transit for a much smaller investment. Rail down Hwy 1 just doesn't make sense - nobody lives around it!
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 8:31 PM
Dave2 Dave2 is online now
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Interesting how the Mayor of Port Moody was all in favour of Skytrain to Coquitlam, ditto the Mayor of Burnaby; compared that to the two clowns in office now.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 22, 2008, 10:29 PM
eduardo88 eduardo88 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Other cities have shown that highway ROWs make poor locations for rapid transit because the median stations are not walkable or in dense areas. In addition, the median on the TCH will be disappearing with the widening for the Gateway project. If the twinned Port Mann is used for LRT service, the line should diverge from the highway ROW to serve more populated/developable areas close by, rather than staying in the highway ROW.
I think the old interurban line would be a better choice south of the Fraser - but would require a new rail bridge at New West to allow frequent service across the Fraser River.
The reason i chose the TCH is because it would be a quick route for a train to take. This wouldn't be LRT, so it wouldnt need to have many stops, it would probably have max 5-6 before getting to Waterfront. Most of these stations would be park and ride and serve as an alternative for driving into town. this would not be rapid transit such as SkyTrain, not exactly something you'd use to go one stop at 3pm, but more into Vancouver mornings and out in the evenings...
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 1:58 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Ok, but that wuld be a lot of new infrastructure for a limited sevice.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 7:49 AM
cornholio cornholio is offline
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well i had a bit of time today so i created a quick map of a Vancouver to Chiliwack express line. This line would have electrified high speed trains(200-350km/ph). The stations are generarly atlest 20km apart to maximize the speed of the trains because they require to speed up and slow down.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UT...4414&z=10&om=0


1)Basicly the line starts at Waterfront and travels along the rail line up to the Grandview cut were there would be a station at Broadway.
2)It then continues through the cut to just past Nanaimo where it goes in to a bored tunnel under neath the southern hillside and emerges at the highway were it continues down the middle until it goes back in to a bored tunnel under Goverment st and Keswick park with a station at Lougheed.
3)After the station it continues in a bored tunnel and turns back to the highway were it follows the railway up to around King Edward street were it goes back in to a bored tunnel under the Fraser. This tunnel can also have capacity for freight rail to replace the New Westminster crossing. The bored tunnel then continues south along the power line right of way up to King George highway were it goes in to a station at Surrey central.
4)It then continues in a bored or cut and cover tunnel under King George station until it reaches the power line right of way south of Bear creek park were it takes a turn to the east and continues in a trench or at grade(were possible). It goes just past 152st were it turns south and continues through the farmland t link up with the railway again. It follows its right of way at grade through Langley and another station and continues along it(next to Glover rd) up to the number 1.
5)There it goes back in to the midle and continues all the way to Chiliwack at grade with a station and park and ride facility in Abotsford and Chiliwack.
*)Also the current WCE would stop running along Burrard inlet and would turn south at Coquitlam station and merge with this line. People in Poert moody can just take the Evergreen line to Lougheed station or Coquitlam station to get on a express train to downtown.
A majority of the line is at grade and almost all of it follows either a rail right of way, a highway right of way or a power line right of way. The only pricy tunnels would be 1.5 or so km one in Vancouver, a 1.5 or so km one by lougheed station(this can also be eliminated and the station moved to Braid), and a new tunnel for a crossing under the fraser. The only long tunnel cut and cover would be down King George for a few km.

***There can alos be more stations along the line with tracks to allow other trains to by pass them while their in a station. A station on 152 for White rock commuters and a few more along the number one between Langley and Chiliwack would be usefull to maximize the coverage of the line. A station around Willingdon would also be good. But all these stations should be able to be bypassed by express trains that can pick up and maintain a decent speed for longer distances in stead of having to come to a stop and reacelerate to 200+km and hour.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 8:45 AM
paradigm4 paradigm4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
well i had a bit of time today so i created a quick map of a Vancouver to Chiliwack express line. This line would have electrified high speed trains(200-350km/ph). The stations are generarly atlest 20km apart to maximize the speed of the trains because they require to speed up and slow down.
Ya, you aren't going to reach those speeds without a far more straight alignment. And the distance you are going is way too short between stations to even reach such a high speed. High speed rail is for actual long commutes. Like, maybe Vancouver to Chilliwack at least.
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 8:54 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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As a North Vancouverite who sold his car last year, I hate the lack of public transit options. The seabus is horribly slow and I can't even get to my work on False Creek by bus from the Lonsdale area via any reasonable route. A skytrain from Waterfront to Lonsdale would be heaven, even though I am right on the other main Lonsdale drag (3rd street). A NIMBY I am not.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 9:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornholio View Post
well i had a bit of time today so i created a quick map of a Vancouver to Chiliwack express line. This line would have electrified high speed trains(200-350km/ph). The stations are generarly atlest 20km apart to maximize the speed of the trains because they require to speed up and slow down.
I agree with paradigm....that's a bit too fast, especially for a curvy route. Commuter rail speed is more proper and ideal, something with a top speed of 140-160 km/h.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 9:51 AM
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skytrain to langley is nonsesical. mabey WCE but really an express bus would do fine. im all for extending the current WCE to abbotsford, and the ROW is already there. theres a spur line from DT mission to DT Abbotsford and then on to huntingdon and washington state. a suburban B line style bus system could connect the WCE in downtown abby with a guilford skytrain station. it would go like this. abby DT, abby clearbrook, abby west, aldergrove, langley city, guilford.
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 10:45 AM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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HSR that fast needs a minimum turn radius of about 4000m.

(A Circle with an over 24km circumference)

It's also nowhere NEAR practical... unless Chilliwack were the size of Vancouver and Vancouver the size of Toronto... and even then...

'twould be a waste to run the train down the TCH. It should run where there are people. There are existing ROWs that run where the people are. Also, a park n' ride on the TCH would be useless as much of line-ups people have are just getting TO the freeway. It's insane.

Further away from the highway would be MUCH better. Give those without ready access to the TCH an alternative.

PS: Forgot that they names the Mark II "Fat Albert" Thx for the article, od.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 5:49 PM
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Rusty Gull Rusty Gull is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
As a North Vancouverite who sold his car last year, I hate the lack of public transit options. The seabus is horribly slow and I can't even get to my work on False Creek by bus from the Lonsdale area via any reasonable route. A skytrain from Waterfront to Lonsdale would be heaven, even though I am right on the other main Lonsdale drag (3rd street). A NIMBY I am not.
I like the Seabus. I don't know about it being too slow. The ride between the North Shore and downtown Vancouver is only 12 minutes -- which is much faster than driving a car over the Lions Gate Bridge during rush hour.

I know for a fact that the boats themselves are capable of travelling much faster, but they don't because of the wake they create.

What the North Shore needs is better transit connections -within- the North Shore, especially up and down the Lonsdale corridor between Lonsdale Quay and West Vancouver.
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 7:23 PM
Nutterbug Nutterbug is offline
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Originally Posted by Rusty Gull View Post
I like the Seabus. I don't know about it being too slow. The ride between the North Shore and downtown Vancouver is only 12 minutes -- which is much faster than driving a car over the Lions Gate Bridge during rush hour.

I know for a fact that the boats themselves are capable of travelling much faster, but they don't because of the wake they create.
From those puny little things?

Is it because they don't want to compromise smoothness of the ride for speed for the passengers onboard?
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 7:28 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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not enough barfbags on board to go much faster.

WikiPedia infers it could travel about 50% faster:
Quote:
The crossing takes 10-12 minutes in each direction, with a 3-5 minute turnaround and, therefore, operates on a 15 minute turn-around schedule. At these times, over 50 crossings are made a day. During the evenings and on Sundays, service is reduced to a 30 minute schedule with only one ferry operating.
The Burrard Otter SeaBus departing Lonsdale Quay.
The Burrard Otter SeaBus departing Lonsdale Quay.

The SeaBus is capable of operating on a 12 minute turnaround (or even 10 minutes with simultaneous loading and unloading). However, at the higher speeds, the wake created disturbs other users of the Burrard Inlet. During overloads they do sometimes operate at the higher speeds.
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 7:41 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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WRT Skytrain to Langley - in the long term a line would feed Surrey City Centre's downtown, but I agree that for the moment, a WCE style DMU commuter train would suffice as long as it provides connectivity to Skytrain so passengers can get to Surrey City Centre and other cross-commuting destnations, as well as downtown Vancouver.

May be worthwhile to post this railway map (some are historical and no longer exist) from N. Roughley's website - you can see the route of the BC Electric to Chiliwack - not the straightest route.
http://www.vanc.igs.net/~roughley/whats_new.html



And here it is from the current Southern Railway of BC website:

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