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  #961  
Old Posted Apr 25, 2009, 2:10 AM
econgrad econgrad is offline
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Originally Posted by innov8 View Post

I agree Cynikal, mediocrity has been the standard line in this town for a long
time now... we all loose when we settle for second rate projects.
I agree with you and Cynikal that mediocrity has been the standard for far too long (as you know from my posts). May I ask, what makes this project mediocre? I like the venue concepts, should there be more? A highrise?
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  #962  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 5:08 AM
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If the goal is to get more foot traffic downtown then the city should only
subsidize projects that add housing downtown. It now seems like nothing
can be built downtown unless subsidies are part of the deal while at the
same time city staff are waiving fees... the call for subsidies has become
more rapid and will only falsely create a market that can't support it's self.
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  #963  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 5:57 AM
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What will it take to bring K Street to life? Planners and a developer weigh in
rlillis@sacbee.com
Published Sunday, Apr. 26, 2009

Over the past decade, public and private investors have poured more than $170 million into the K Street Mall.

Results have been mixed for the six-block pedestrian strip between Downtown Plaza and the Sacramento Convention Center. In the 700 and 800 blocks, 14 empty storefronts face K Street. Most evenings the street is empty.

There are signs of improvement. Work has begun on a nightclub, bar and gourmet pizzeria between 10th and 11th streets, and a 409-room hotel has been proposed for the vacant lot at Eighth and K. The city is about to begin a $4 million streetscape project.

But success remains elusive.

The Bee asked a local urban planner, a K Street developer and a Denver planning expert what it takes to bring a street to life.

Finding a tipping point

A number of factors have conspired against K Street over the years, said Paul Shigley, editor of the California Planning and Development Report.

The decision four decades ago to close off the street to vehicle traffic didn't work, and some current and former property owners didn't do enough to help turn it around, he said.

The city of Sacramento also made "a series of bad decisions that at the time did not seem that bad," he said.

He referred to putting light rail tracks and stations in spots that cut off parts of the street.

Other factors he cited were cold, uninviting storefronts, and the lack of quality residential options in the area.

"When you've got people living there, they're always watching the neighborhood," he says. "Right now, you would want to be planning for the next real estate market."

As for the million of dollars that have been poured into the street, Shigley said, "It seems like you should be getting a bigger bang for that."

"You need to get to a tipping point when more things start happening, when success feeds off itself," he said. "It seems like K Street can never get to that point."

Shigley doesn't think the down economy has been any rougher on K Street than it has other places.

"K Street has been through three or four different recessions and booms," he said.

Still, he said, some of the projects that have recently opened or are being planned provide "lots of reasons to be optimistic" about K Street.

Less retail, more night life

Bob Leach created the luxury Le Rivage hotel on the banks of the Sacramento River near Greenhaven. Now he is developing a proposal for a hotel at Eighth and K with 409 rooms, meeting space, a day spa, fitness center, elevated pool and sky bar, and a parking garage that would serve K Street. The Hilton chain is interested in the project.

Leach said he has a letter of intent from a financial backer to provide $80 million toward the $110 million project and plans to go to the city with a formal presentation within a month.

Despite the blighted canvas in the 700 and 800 blocks of K Street, Leach is optimistic.

"If we can launch this hotel, it will really help the 700 block retail-wise," Leach said. "Great things are happening at the (east) end. We just need to pick up on that momentum."

Leach likes that many of the newest projects are aimed at night life and don't rely on shoppers.

"The idea that it's shaping up as an entertainment district is better than putting all your money into retail," he said.

Create people magnets

John Desmond, vice president of urban planning and environment for the Downtown Denver Partnership, helped turn around its 16th Street.

Today, the street is a collection of more than 200 businesses along 16 blocks. It has free buses that make frequent stops, granite sidewalks, trees, vendor carts and sidewalk cafes. An estimated 50,000 people ride the bus system and 30,000 pedestrians hit the mall every day.

Zoning changes have led to more welcoming storefronts, and the mall has become the first- or second-most visited destination in the Denver area every year, Desmond said. Unlike many downtowns that rely on 9-to-5 business, 16th Street is bustling 18 hours a day.

Entertainment drives the district, as 60 percent of tax receipts come from those businesses. There is also a steady stream of public investment in the mall, including money spent on transit, holiday lighting and new businesses.

Dense residential projects have developed in the area. A vacant high-rise was converted into apartments, and 10,000 people live within four blocks of 16th Street.

Desmond said in order to succeed, urban areas must offer something special to attract people.

"You can't count on the space itself to be the anchor," he says. "You've got to have other things that feed into it and support it."

Besides its shops and restaurants, 16th Street has benefited from its proximity to an art museum, stadiums, a convention center and the state Capitol.

Desmond suggested looking at several factors when mapping out K Street's future, including maintenance, public safety, a mix of businesses and pedestrian access.

"If it's seriously wrong, you've got to take a hard look at all of the elements that are not contributing to its success," he said.

Last edited by econgrad; Apr 27, 2009 at 8:48 AM.
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  #964  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 8:46 AM
econgrad econgrad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by innov8 View Post
If the goal is to get more foot traffic downtown then the city should only
subsidize projects that add housing downtown. It now seems like nothing
can be built downtown unless subsidies are part of the deal while at the
same time city staff are waiving fees... the call for subsidies has become
more rapid and will only falsely create a market that can't support it's self.
Damn good thesis statement!

From the article above:
"You need to get to a tipping point when more things start happening, when success feeds off itself," he said. "It seems like K Street can never get to that point."
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  #965  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:12 PM
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I agree that the missing component to K Street has been residential. I would add that a diverse blend of uses to keep people on the street all day and night is the better prescription. I thought the article was good but focused too much on entertainment uses being the key to the street. The one thought I agree with is the first step is to relocate lightrail to L and J streets.

@econ - I've been thinking about your question "what makes it mediocre?" and I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it. I was just hoping for more. But not much that Taylor does blows me away.
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  #966  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 4:23 PM
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The easiest way to bring residential into the mix on K Street is to return previously residential buildings to residential uses, or to simply utilize existing residential buildings that are now vacant. The Maydestone could set the tone for this kind of project: just a couple blocks from K Street, but an example of what can be done with the existing historic fabric.

The easy conversions on K Street are the Regis Hotel (currently offices, but could be residential again) and the Bel-Vue (which are apartments, in relatively intact condition) and obviously the Berry. There are other, less obvious spots too: most of the second-story level of the 700 block of K used to be residential, accessed via the Flagstone Hotel entrance on 7th Street and other side/alley entrances. As part of a restored 700 block, this could create a bunch of very unique residential spots. Once the economy and housing market is in better shape, if there is operating residential in the neighborhood (the result of restoration of residential units in the short term) the available lots downtown will be more attractive for new residential high-rise construction.

Especially if they put a market in the Greyhound building!

Restoring old buildings is a more practical strategy than new construction during tough economic times, and has a more positive effect on the local economy: it requires less materials than new construction, and more labor, which means less money leaves town to buy materials and the money spent on labor is spent by the laborers in the community.
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  #967  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 5:45 PM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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I am no longer sure that residential on K street is an answer. Been trying to make that work for years and the results are dubious at best. I am increasingly of the opinion that an entertainment zone along K Street is a better solution to revitalization. Residential and entertainment districts are often at odds with each other due to noise and other issues.

K Street seems to be growing more organically toward entertainment and yes, I realize that the City is putting money there so it's not completely organic. But I think these types of investments will produce far better results than have previous contributions.

Sacramento leaders had fallen in love with nostalgic images of a K Street packed with shoppers and that mindset has driven years of failed redevelopment policy. The present team is slowly weaning itself away from that mirage and is looking to invest in something that they think might actually produce results.

20 years and $170 mil is enough evidence. Time to try something new.
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  #968  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:15 PM
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It seems like the way the cards have fallen, most of the retail is going into Midtown (at least in the form of small boutiques and local businesses) while the entertainment is working its way Downtown. I do think that residential needs to be a component of K Street, and high-rise residential can be a better mix with entertainment districts (if you're up 10-20 stories in a new building with good sound insulation, you won't even notice a big party on the street) but the entertainment district idea seems like a better direction than trying to push a shopping-mall idea that never really worked.

As to light rail, I have pushed the idea before and will push it again: re-route light rail strictly onto 7th and 8th Street (through-routing the Gold Line via North B or Richards) and use the existing tracks on K and 12th Street as part of a local streetcar network. That way, the commuter lines can drop people off outside of the main pedestran paths, and the smaller, more pedestrian-scale streetcars can carry people along K Street.
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  #969  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 6:40 PM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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Quote:
As to light rail, I have pushed the idea before and will push it again: re-route light rail strictly onto 7th and 8th Street (through-routing the Gold Line via North B or Richards) and use the existing tracks on K and 12th Street as part of a local streetcar network. That way, the commuter lines can drop people off outside of the main pedestran paths, and the smaller, more pedestrian-scale streetcars can carry people along K Street.
I think there is some merit to this idea. Wburg, forgive me if you've already discussed this, but have you approached anyone at the City on this and if so, what has been the reaction? What about rerouting onto J and L streets (one way and keeping open to autos) while opening K to both vehicular traffic and streetcars?
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  #970  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 7:09 PM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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I do think that residential needs to be a component of K Street, and high-rise residential can be a better mix with entertainment districts (if you're up 10-20 stories in a new building with good sound insulation, you won't even notice a big party on the street) but the entertainment district idea seems like a better direction than trying to push a shopping-mall idea that never really worked.
You and I may agree that any noise impact is minimal at that height, but my experience has been that it does not stop residents from claiming grievance and forcing a city council to enact and enforce restrictive noise and operating laws.
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  #971  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 7:21 PM
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travis: The problem is that the volume of traffic on J and L Street would be tough to mix with trains. Instead of solving the problem, it would just relocate the problem to J and L. Rerouting the Gold Line via the planned 7th Street extension through the Railyards and onto North B would probably be the simplest, in terms of cross traffic, and create the opportunity to install a Light Rail station at North B Street or directly aside Loaves & Fishes (a move that would make many friends in Alkali Flat/Manison Flat.) The current Alkali Flat station would be the end of the line for the local streetcar, using the underpass tracks as a means to get back to the Swanston service shops.

This was basically how the city's streetcar and interurban lines worked: trains coming from Stockton and Oakland came downtown via 8th Street (in both directions) and K Street was streetcar territory. The interurbans were larger, multiple-car trains, like modern LRVs, while the streetcars were smaller and slower. From 8th street, the interurbans ran up I Street to 15th, then to 18th and D, then under the levee a block from the Western Pacific main and north through North Sacramento and eventually Chico.

I have not discussed this directly with city staff or RT's board. I suppose I probably could.
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  #972  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 7:36 PM
travis bickle travis bickle is offline
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Originally Posted by wburg View Post
travis: The problem is that the volume of traffic on J and L Street would be tough to mix with trains. Instead of solving the problem, it would just relocate the problem to J and L. Rerouting the Gold Line via the planned 7th Street extension through the Railyards and onto North B would probably be the simplest, in terms of cross traffic, and create the opportunity to install a Light Rail station at North B Street or directly aside Loaves & Fishes (a move that would make many friends in Alkali Flat/Manison Flat.) The current Alkali Flat station would be the end of the line for the local streetcar, using the underpass tracks as a means to get back to the Swanston service shops.

This was basically how the city's streetcar and interurban lines worked: trains coming from Stockton and Oakland came downtown via 8th Street (in both directions) and K Street was streetcar territory. The interurbans were larger, multiple-car trains, like modern LRVs, while the streetcars were smaller and slower. From 8th street, the interurbans ran up I Street to 15th, then to 18th and D, then under the levee a block from the Western Pacific main and north through North Sacramento and eventually Chico.

I have not discussed this directly with city staff or RT's board. I suppose I probably could.

I see your point. Although I wonder how this routing would affect commuters from the northeast. For a variety of reasons (including stimulus money), a lot of transportation options are in play in ways they have never been before. Now may be the time to discuss this with the appropriate parties.

If you do, please let me know the response.
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  #973  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
econgrad econgrad is offline
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Originally Posted by Cynikal View Post
@econ - I've been thinking about your question "what makes it mediocre?" and I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it. I was just hoping for more. But not much that Taylor does blows me away.
I am hoping (and I know this is kind of a turn around for me) that now they keep K street pedestrian only, and turn it into an entertainment hot spot, these bars and pizza place is a good start. The hotel if built would be great for visitors to walk out of the hotel and walk around K street at night to restaurants and bars and clubs and whatever else (Imax, coffee shiops, live shows, etc). I looked at these places as a small piece placed in a larger puzzle yet to be completed. Maybe it will all add up, eventually. I hope.

Travis and wburg (and whomever): If built right and located right, we can have a mix of residential in the middle of an entertainment hot spot. I agree that some residents may complain, but if known as an entertainment district, well known, they wouldn't be too credible for moving into that type of area and then complaining about it. (More wishful thinking possibly).
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  #974  
Old Posted May 4, 2009, 8:11 PM
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Most have probably read the article but a good summary of the sad, continuing saga of the K Street Mall. I believe the first official word that the remodel is on hold (or cancelled) that I can recall. At this point I don't believe Westfield knows what they want to do with the property and these periodic plan and rendering parades are just to keep the city and tenants from bring torches and pitchforks until they figure out how to best dump the site..

Quote:

Downtown Plaza feeling recession's bite

By M.S. Enkoji
menkoji@sacbee.com
Published: Monday, May. 4, 2009 - 12:00 am | Page 1A

Toting shopping bags in both hands, Jayne Jarvis breezed through the open walkway of Downtown Plaza on a recent lunch break. Pausing in front of a place where she used to grab a frozen yogurt, she gazed into the darkened, empty storefront.

"Every time I come over, something else is gone," she said on her way back to her job with the county of Sacramento. "It's too bad because this is like my main shopping time."

The two-level shopping center, embedded into four downtown city blocks, is undergoing a severe midlife crisis. Familiar retailers – Ann Taylor, Banana Republic, Mrs. Fields cookies, among others – have shut their doors in the past few years. A planned renovation designed to update and reinvigorate the center is on hold. By some counts, more than one out of every three storefronts is vacant.

The retail industry is suffering mightily. Sales nationwide tumbled nearly 9 percent in the first quarter over the same period a year ago. Big merchants such as Mervyns and Circuit City are out of business, while other well-known names are struggling.

Anemic sales and the grinding economic downturn create steep challenges for many malls, especially in the Sacramento area. Over the summer, the 48-year-old Country Club Plaza at Watt and El Camino avenues will lose a major anchor when a bankrupt Gottschalks shuts. Meanwhile, construction has all but halted on a regional shopping center in Elk Grove.

For Downtown Plaza, where sales tax receipts have been falling since 2005, the number of vacancies and the ongoing economic turmoil fuel speculation about what lies ahead for the 16-year-old open-air center.

The plaza's challenges can't be separated from other issues facing downtown Sacramento. Located between the K Street Mall and the massive railyard project, it is integral to the ambitious plan Sacramento officials have of turning the inner city into a regional attraction with shopping, dining, entertainment and homes.

But the renovation of the adjacent 700 block of K Street has stalled. The project has been spearheaded in part by Joe Zeiden, the founder and president of Z Gallerie, but last month his company sought bankruptcy protection. Z Gallerie has a store at the Downtown Plaza.

Construction has finally begun on Thomas Enterprises' railyard project, but a greatly diminished Downtown Plaza would leave 1.2 million square feet of retail space struggling next door.

Expansion plans shelved

Besides the economy, past and present tenants and city representatives cite several reasons for Downtown Plaza's troubles, including competition from suburban retail outlets like the Westfield Galleria at Roseville and several stalled housing projects that would have brought thousands of new residents to the city center.

Those condominium high-rises would have been a shot in the arm for the mall, said City Councilman Ray Trethaway, whose district includes the shopping center.

The long-delayed, $120 million makeover for Downtown Plaza now seems like a distant dream. For the remainder of this year at least, Westfield American Trust, which owns Downtown Plaza and 54 other U.S. malls, will not undertake any large construction projects, said Catharine Dickey, a Los Angeles spokeswoman for the company.

Sacramento Mayor Kevin Johnson is trying to meet with Westfield representatives to get a read on their timeline for remodeling the plaza. He's anxious to convey the city's position.

"We can't have them continue to sit on the property," Johnson said. "The down economy is not going to be the only excuse. This has been stalled for several years."

In August, the city signed off on Westfield's plans to remodel the plaza, primarily expanding the Century Theaters by moving the adjacent food court to Seventh Street, at the opposite end of the mall, said Leslie Fritzsche, Sacramento's downtown development manager. The plaza's south end would be renovated for a large department store and a grocery store.

At the time, Westfield said it had plans to start the renovation soon. The city's approval is good for several years, Fritzsche said.

Westfield had lined up Target to move into what would have been the renovated south end on L Street. But citing economic conditions, the Minneapolis-based discount retailer backed out.


Long-term prospects good?

The Australia-based Westfield is one of the world's largest operators of shopping malls. Its properties include the Galleria at Roseville, which has just undergone a $100 million-plus expansion. Johnson said the company has the wherewithal to weather the current economic troubles – and, ultimately, the means to carry out any renovation plans.

"Look, they've made major investments in San Francisco, in Fairfield and in Roseville," he said, referring to other Westfield sites. "Why are we not seeing that investment at the downtown mall? They can be the rising tide that lifts all boats."

The company has owned Downtown Plaza since 1998. Dickey, the Westfield spokeswoman, said it is doing "predevelopment work," including obtaining commitments from current and future tenants.

"We're supportive of rejuvenating downtown," Dickey said. She declined to comment further on the plaza's future.

In central downtown, the eventual makeover of the mall is second in scope only to the huge development of the abandoned railyard. That project calls for doubling the size of downtown and adding hundreds of stores, and homes for thousands.

City Councilman Steve Cohn, who represents part of downtown, said once surrounding development takes off, the plaza's long-range prospects are stellar.

"If Westfield can't make it, I feel very bullish on that location being very successful for someone else," he said. "I'm not saying this year."

The plaza's design bolsters its chance at success, analysts say. Unlike some 1970s-era downtown malls that turned city centers into retail fortresses, open-air malls are better positioned for the future, said Erin Hershkowitz, a spokeswoman with the International Council of Shopping Centers.

"These are the types of formats that have done well up until recent times, and it will probably make a comeback when times get better," she said.

But Hershkowitz said downtown shopping centers need the credit markets to flow again so renovation projects can get funded. And the mainstay tenants – apparel, luxury and department stores – that are the lifeblood of a mall need to regain financial strength.

"There's just not enough credit out there. Once that gets flowing and residential gets going, they'll see an improvement," she said of urban malls.

Some tenants worried

Still, some Downtown Plaza tenants are uneasy with an occupancy rate that is less than 70 percent. The industry standard is 92 percent. Sunrise Mall in Citrus Heights is 94 percent filled; Arden Fair is 95 percent.

Beth Ayres often finds herself discussing the plaza's empty stores with diners at her restaurant, River City Brewing Co., across from Macy's.

"Customers will ask what's going on with the mall, why are all the stores closing? I'm defending the mall, but I don't know what's going on," said Ayres, one of River City's four owners.

Like some other tenants, she has been wowed by the blueprints and impressed at meetings where the plaza's renovation is detailed. But she is frustrated over delays.

Her restaurant business has fallen by as much as 12 percent since 2007, she said. She survives on a steady tourist and lunch trade, still a lively time at the plaza.

Marilyn Slipe, the first manager of Downtown Plaza, remembers an active center that faced fewer commercial rivals.

"I was there in its glory days," she said. "It attracted people from all over."

State workers were 20 percent of the customer base, she said. That was before shopping sprouted up in other places.

"As more and more retail kept mushrooming around us, it made it difficult downtown," Slipe said.

For a while, about two dozen national stores, including Guess and Forever 21, had their only locations in the region at Downtown Plaza.

Still, Slipe said that if any company could turn it around, it would be Westfield.

"The city is fortunate to have Westfield owning that property because no one can do shopping centers better," she said. "They've always been working to expand and get something going. I don't think it's ever stopped."
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  #975  
Old Posted May 4, 2009, 8:55 PM
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At this point Westfield is all but a slumlord over the property. I think the ED option needs to be considered.
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  #976  
Old Posted May 4, 2009, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
The two-level shopping center, embedded into four downtown city blocks, is undergoing a severe midlife crisis. Familiar retailers – Ann Taylor, Banana Republic, Mrs. Fields cookies, among others – have shut their doors in the past few years. A planned renovation designed to update and reinvigorate the center is on hold. By some counts, more than one out of every three storefronts is vacant.
Seriously, if a mall can't keep a Mrs. Fields Cookies alive then it should be put out of its misery at that moment. This is the good ol' canary in the coalmine indicator .
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  #977  
Old Posted May 21, 2009, 9:15 PM
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I strolled K street mall last Saturday.
I don't do it very often. I hoped to see a glimpse of something promising. Of sourse, it was too sad for words. The block that was shut down for Zeiden to take over, is a sad empty mess. The street looks worse than ever. The same vacant spaces, ugly street lamps, benches etc.
I hope something positive happens to this street one day- I have a feeling it's gonna take a miracle
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  #978  
Old Posted May 22, 2009, 8:36 PM
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I still stick by my idea of letting the air force level K street in a rain of fire and brimstone... purely as a training excercise, of course.

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  #979  
Old Posted May 22, 2009, 9:22 PM
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The problem is that there just isn't a plan anymore. The city owns the whole block, they kicked out all the businesses that were there, but Zeiden is broke and there's not much money to kickstart things, so what should they do? Demolition wouldn't do anything but turn empty buildings into an empty hole, it wouldn't help bring in a developer with a plan or turn around the economy, and would destroy some buildings that, if restored, could be really nice--that being the original plan that has since gone to hell.

So, what the city is waiting for is someone to step up with a plan, preferably someone with money and a track record. Let's just hope the plan isn't for another mermaid bar.
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  #980  
Old Posted May 23, 2009, 2:08 AM
econgrad econgrad is offline
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Demolish all, build all new high-rises, no two or three story wastes of space. 10 story minimums, NO MAX. Keep it no cars, have the bottom floors of each high-rise a restaurant or club or coffee shops..etc..

I am just dreaming...
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