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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 12:33 PM
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Berlin



Here I am going to post pictures I took of the city I live in: Berlin,capital of the Federal Republic of Germany.
With 3.5 million inhabitants within its city limits Berlin is the Germany's largest city by population and size and the 2nd largest city in the European Union. After the shock of WorlWar2 and the seperation into East and West the city begins to become a center of Europe again, as it was before WW2. One of these examples is the newly developed Potsdamer Platz Area I am going to start with.





(Location in Berlin)


(The buildings the following pictures are taken of)















































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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2008, 3:44 PM
khazars khazars is offline
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Good stuff Andi and good photos!

I walked through Potsdamerplatz in 1991 when it was a wasteland, nothing there apart from a crane with people doing bungee jumping.

I then walked fom Potsdamerplatz up to the Brandenburger Tor and it was also a wasteland apart from the Brandenburger Tor standing all on its own in no mans land!

It's good to see Berlin, and these areas being rebuilt and a vibrancy returning to an area which was blighted by both the war and the Berlin wall!


Potsdamer platz in 1993. Photo from the link below!


http://www.stadtentwicklung.berlin.d...ng/index.shtml



Last edited by khazars; Apr 20, 2008 at 4:00 PM.
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  #3  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2008, 7:36 AM
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yeah.. i still can remember what it looked like from far as i visited the packed Reichstag. so many cranes...
The area has been Europe's largest construction site back then.
whatever. let´s go on with some more pictures...











































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  #4  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 11:57 AM
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  #5  
Old Posted Apr 23, 2008, 12:08 PM
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Thanks for posting, I had a short trip there back in 2007 and I have good
memories from Postdamer Platz.
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  #6  
Old Posted May 4, 2008, 9:14 AM
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  #7  
Old Posted May 4, 2008, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andi204 View Post
Berlin is the Germany's largest city by population and size and the 2nd largest city in the European Union
The two largest cities in the EU are Paris and London. Berlin is only the 9th most-populated city in the EU. You probably compared population within administrative city limits to make that claim (often heard in Germany), but it makes no sense since Berlin and all its suburbs were merged into the same large municipality whereas other larger cities in the EU have very small municipalities and their suburbs are administratively separate (Paris, Barcelona, Athens). Comparing administrative municipalities is like comparing apples and oranges. You have to compare urban areas for meaningful comparisons.
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Old Posted May 4, 2008, 3:24 PM
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That's not true. Within the city limits Berlin has got about 3.5 Million inhabitants and Paris just like 2.5 Million, i think even less. Most people living in Paris are living in highly populous townships in the outside of the city limits.
If it would be true what you're trying to tell Berlin would have about 4.5 Million inhabitans, since the city has got larger towns in its suburbs. For example Potsdam belongs to the city are of Berlin but is situated outside the city limits so it does not count to Berlin's population.

And you might be right in the fact that Berlin as we know today was founded in the 20s out of several towns but today it's one city.
Thanks to our politicians we won't have this discussion anymore maybe when they are really going to combine the two federal states of Berlin and Brandenburg.

Need some proves?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d...%A4dte_Europas

Btw you should read more carefully.
I wrote: "With 3.5 million inhabitants within its city limits Berlin is the Germany's largest city by population and size and the 2nd largest city in the European Union."
...
Within its city limits
WITHIN

Last edited by andi204; May 4, 2008 at 3:36 PM.
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  #9  
Old Posted May 4, 2008, 4:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andi204 View Post
That's not true. Within the city limits Berlin has got about 3.5 Million inhabitants and Paris just like 2.5 Million, i think even less. Most people living in Paris are living in highly populous townships in the outside of the city limits.
I know that. That's exactly what I said. That's why it doesn't make much sense to look only at the population living within the administrative city limits and claim that Berlin is the 2nd largest city in the EU. The administrative municipality of Berlin covers 892 km² whereas the administrative municipality of Paris covers only 105 km². Within the 892 km² of the administrative municipality of Berlin there live 3,415,742 people. If you take 892 km² of land around Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, there live 7.5 million people within that area. That's more than double the number of people who live in the 892 km² of Berlin. If you take 892 km² of land around the Puerta del Sol in Madrid, there live 4.2 million people within that area. That's 800,000 more than in the 892 km² of Berlin. If you take 892 km² of land around the Acropolis in Athens, there live 3.7 million people within that area. That's 300,000 more than in the 892 km² of Berlin. So are you still sure it makes sense to claim that Berlin is the second largest city in the EU?

The word "city" in English is polysemic, maybe "Stadt" in German only means the administrative city proper, I don't know, but in English, besides the meaning of administrative city proper, the word "city" is often loosely used to refer to an urban area, no matter the exact location of the administrative city limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andi204 View Post
Btw you should read more carefully.
I wrote: "With 3.5 million inhabitants within its city limits Berlin is the Germany's largest city by population and size and the 2nd largest city in the European Union."
...
Within its city limits
WITHIN
Fair enough, but again comparing population within administrative city limits is like comparing apples and oranges. Within city limits the City of Bristol (410,500 inhabitants) is more populated than the City of London (7,800 inhabitants).
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Old Posted Oct 25, 2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andi204 View Post
That's not true. Within the city limits Berlin has got about 3.5 Million inhabitants and Paris just like 2.5 Million, i think even less. Most people living in Paris are living in highly populous townships in the outside of the city limits.
If it would be true what you're trying to tell Berlin would have about 4.5 Million inhabitants, since the city has got larger towns in its suburbs. For example Potsdam belongs to the city are of Berlin but is situated outside the city limits so it does not count to Berlin's population.

And you might be right in the fact that Berlin as we know today was founded in the 20s out of several towns but today it's one city.
Thanks to our politicians we won't have this discussion anymore maybe when they are really going to combine the two federal states of Berlin and Brandenburg.

Need some proves?

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d...%A4dte_Europas

Btw you should read more carefully.
I wrote: "With 3.5 million inhabitants within its city limits Berlin is the Germany's largest city by population and size and the 2nd largest city in the European Union."
...
Within its city limits
WITHIN
I guess you probably don't want yet another poster bringing this up again, but really, it does hit a raw nerve when some people do this.

New Brisavoine has a good point. You are on an international forum and not every country hangs onto the council area population when defining cities. Although you are correct in that Berlin's city proper council area is one of the largest in Europe, not everyone considers invisible political borders to be the defining factor. Paris may have a smaller population by council area than Berlin but it is a much larger city.

You must keep in mind that on an International forum, people from other parts of the world may see things differently. For instance, would you consider Aachen to be larger than Sydney? Most Germans think of Aachen to be a city of 258,000 people. This is actually larger than Sydney which has within it's council area 167,000 people. Which city do you consider larger? Or in this case, do you take all of Sydney's urban area population or it's metro area population. If you honestly consider Berlin to be larger than Paris, then surely you must use this rule for everything and consider Aachen to be larger than Sydney. The 4.2million we usually hear for Sydney is in fact it's metro area that covers 12,000km² (which incidentally, compares with Frankfurt's metropolitan area of the Rhein Main which has 5.2million in roughly the same area coverage)

I believe the Berlin Urban area has around 3.7million people and it's metropolitan area covers around 5,370km² and has around 4.2million people. The reason Berlin's metro area is smaller in size to say Frankfurt or Sydney is that unlike these cities which are surrounded by many other urban area's spreading out in pockets quite far away and connected by economic and commutable ties, the urban satellites around Berlin thin out very quickly.

By the way, I saw on later posts that you insist that Berlin is the second largest city in the EU. This is all very good at technical levels regarding demographics based on political boundary's. But if you insist that Berlin is a bigger city than Paris you are completely wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andi204 View Post
Btw²:
The German word for City is "Großstadt", Town is "Stadt". And here in Germany only the areas within the city borders belong to the City/Großstadt.
What you understand under "city" would be "Verdichtungsraum" or "Metropolregion" in German.
Ah, yes, but you are on an International English speaking forum here, and the word "City" can mean anything from city proper, urban area or entire metropolitan area. By the way, according to the German standard, Perth, Australia is a tiny village of 11,573 people. Damn impressive skyline for such a small village

Anyway, that shouldn't distract from this excellent thread and wonderful photos you have been posting. We just needed to clear up the differences here when comparing cities internationally.

I particularly like how you have shown sat maps of the areas where the photos come from. I consider Berlin to be my favourite city in Germany and always enjoy seeing photos from it. So, I'll keep an eye out on this thread and hope to see your posts continue
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  #11  
Old Posted May 4, 2008, 6:59 PM
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Thanks for sharing these nice photos
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  #12  
Old Posted May 5, 2008, 5:44 PM
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thanks grumpy ^^

Quote:
I know that. That's exactly what I said. That's why it doesn't make much sense to look only at the population living within the administrative city limits and claim that Berlin is the 2nd largest city in the EU. The administrative municipality of Berlin covers 892 km² whereas the administrative municipality of Paris covers only 105 km². Within the 892 km² of the administrative municipality of Berlin there live 3,415,742 people. If you take 892 km² of land around Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, there live 7.5 million people within that area. That's more than double the number of people who live in the 892 km² of Berlin. If you take 892 km² of land around the Puerta del Sol in Madrid, there live 4.2 million people within that area. That's 800,000 more than in the 892 km² of Berlin. If you take 892 km² of land around the Acropolis in Athens, there live 3.7 million people within that area. That's 300,000 more than in the 892 km² of Berlin. So are you still sure it makes sense to claim that Berlin is the second largest city in the EU?
Yes, I still think, because it´s the truth, that Berlin is the 2nd largest city in the European Union. It´s not Berlin´s fault that its size is larger than the size of Paris or whatever.
Neither me nor you define the borders of a city. It's upto the cities which areas they count to their population. And in that case Berlin is the 2nd largest city in the European Union.
Using current data, of the ACTUAL Paris administrative minicipality, Athens and Madrid, using THEIR stated A.M size, Berlin is 2nd largest.
That´s the official truth. We could discuss this for years without getting real results. I think that as long as the European Union does not increase the size of Paris, Athens, Madrid and so on you have to accept that city of Berlin is simply larger than Paris is, although more people do leave in the "Greater Paris" area than in "Greater Berlin"

Btw I don´t want you to be angry or something. I don´t think that´s an argument, it´s a discussion. And we both shall be adult enough to discuss without being.. "touched".. whatever..^^

Btw²:
The German word for City is "Großstadt", Town is "Stadt". And here in Germany only the areas within the city borders belong to the City/Großstadt.
What you understand under "city" would be "Verdichtungsraum" or "Metropolregion" in German.
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  #13  
Old Posted May 5, 2008, 8:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andi204 View Post
Btw²:
The German word for City is "Großstadt", Town is "Stadt". And here in Germany only the areas within the city borders belong to the City/Großstadt.
What you understand under "city" would be "Verdichtungsraum" or "Metropolregion" in German.
Could you please post a map of Berlin and one of the metropolitan area of the city please cause I have totally no idea how far spread out the metropolitan area is.

I only know Berlin like this:

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  #14  
Old Posted May 5, 2008, 10:54 PM
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This population discussion is worthless. Yes, officially Berlin is the 2nd largest city in the EU but we all know that Paris is bigger. Officially, Frankfurt only has a population of 600,000 but it's metroregion is much bigger.
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  #15  
Old Posted May 5, 2008, 11:08 PM
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Here´s a map of the Berlin-Brandenburg-Metropolitan Area



Red: Berlin Central Business District
Red+Pink: Berlin Districts
Light Orange: Berlin Suburbs
Orange: Potsdam
Light Yellow: Rest of Brandenburg

Red + Pink + Light Orange + Orange: Berlin-Brandenburg Metropolitan Area:


And here's a map of the largest metropolitain areas in Germany



source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropo...in/Brandenburg
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  #16  
Old Posted May 6, 2008, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dear Leader View Post
Yes, officially Berlin is the 2nd largest city in the EU but we all know that Paris is bigger.
That's precisely the point. It doesn't make much sense to compare population within administrative city limits and then claim that a city is more populated just based on administrative city limits. By administrative city limits, then the mayor of Paris could claim that Paris (2,167,994 inhabitants) is 278 times more populated than London (7,800 inhabitants).
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  #17  
Old Posted May 7, 2008, 4:16 PM
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Great architecture! Very, very new.
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  #18  
Old Posted Jul 20, 2008, 7:47 PM
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hey hey
after a very long break ( sorry ) i am back with new pictures of the west part of the area.
here we go





























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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 21, 2008, 4:42 PM
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This will be the last update about the Potsdamer Platz.
The following pictures are mostly random of the whole area or the 3 towers forming the east end or simply pictures I have forgotten to post to one of the other updates. ^.~










































































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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2008, 12:20 PM
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