Disraeli Bridge Reconstruction (completed)

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by fengshui

The City has posted the notice for DBFM of the Disraeli on their procurement page.

Seems to me that the overpass portion of the Disraeli is moving traffic over decaying industry. If you ask me it is doing Point Douglas a favor.

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by newflyer

Seems to me that the overpass portion of the Disraeli is moving traffic over decaying industry. If you ask me it is doing Point Douglas a favor.

Hardly. Residential development is moving north along Waterfront Drive, but as soon as we hit the freeway inevitably the developer chokes. Get rid of the decaying industry, minimize the impact of the freeway, and fix the donut hole.

[newflyer]

Originally Posted by flatlander

Hardly. Residential development is moving north along Waterfront Drive, but as soon as we hit the freeway inevitably the developer chokes. Get rid of the decaying industry, minimize the impact of the freeway, and fix the donut hole.

I am all for clearing the idustry in this area... and turning the Disreali into less of a freeway and more of a parkway, with greenspace of either side (similar to the Charleswood Parkway), and an underpass linking Waterfront Drive and Point Douglas in a much more pleasing manner.

[bimbamboom]

By ROSS ROMANIUK, SUN MEDIA
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Chimko says it is unnecessary to close the entire span for 16 months. (JASON HALSTEAD/SUN MEDIA)

The argument to expand the Disraeli Freeway to two structures and six lanes has gained credibility with the voice of a former city traffic engineer.
Andy Chimko, who spent 32 years helping direct various streets and traffic issues in Winnipeg until retiring a few years ago, says city hall is wrong to reject growing calls for a double-span, wider structure.
He said it's off-base in planning for a 16-month shutdown of the heavily travelled Disraeli bridge and overpass during a coming reconstruction.
"It's totally unnecessary for the city to close it for 16 months. That's an absurdity," said Chimko, 59. "That doesn't get it done any quicker. It just makes it more difficult for the public to cope."
Chimko said the city has failed to properly consider Winnipeg's traffic needs as the city grows in the years ahead. He said the city should extensively analyse the benefits in turning at least part of the Disraeli into a two-span, six-lane strip for traffic between downtown and northeast Winnipeg.


fctAdTag("bigbox",MyGenericTagVar,1);
"It should be done if you're going to spend $100 million," he said.
Various costs have been floated for the project, though it's anticipated an upgrade to maintain the freeway and bridge as a single-span, four-lane span with a concrete divider would cost about $150 million. It's been said that an addition of a span to create six lanes on two roadways would push the price tag to between $250 million and $350 million.
FUTURE NEEDS
Cost issues, says Chimko, should be weighed against the city's future needs for not only increasing use by regular vehicles but for buses and cyclists who could hit the Disraeli in greater numbers due to a new "greenway" route in East and North Kildonan.
"Even now, it's probably borderline -- you could almost make a case for it," he said of a six-lane Disraeli.
Coun. Russ Wyatt (Transcona) calls Chimko's stance "long-term practical thinking that's not taking place at city hall."
Though the city has not made a final plan, Katz said it's leaning toward continuing with four lanes "with the ability to expand in the future." He said a 16-month closure is "not acceptable" and that he wants to examine a possible shutdown of only two lanes at a time while work proceeds.
"We don't have an unlimited budget, so we have to make sure we address the priorities that exist for all citizens," Katz said of the four-lane plan.
But Chimko questions whether the bridge experts are tackling the appropriate projects. "They think about loads in the future but don't think about traffic, because they're bridge engineers," he said.

[pegcity]

Is the Disraeli Freeway the shortest freeway in the world? It has to be, someone should call Guinness.

[flatlander]

Stay down, Andy, stay down.

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by pegcity

Is the Disraeli Freeway the shortest freeway in the world? It has to be, someone should call Guinness.

Nope...it can't be. The only reason I say this is because while we know what we think of as a freeway, there's no law anywhere that says we have to name a roadway to specifically identify it's use. Well, maybe there is here but I can tell you that after spending hours poring over Google maps and exploring the world, there are plenty of "freeways" that are anything but. For example, go to Flin Flon on Google Maps. While there, check out the name of main drag through Creighton. Maybe it's changed but it used to be called the Creighton Freeway. It was as much a freeway as the monkey trails I used to ride my bike along. Anyway, that's just one example and there are dozens that I've come across.

Edit: Okay, I just checked and no, it's not called the Creighton Freeway anyway. Or maybe it is and Google refuses to recognize the name. I dunno. Anyway, all the same, there are plenty of freeways that look a lot more like suburban cul-de-sacs than grade-seperated , free flow corridors.

[newflyer]

It should be renamed to .. Disraeli Overpass.

This would remove any form of Grand Vision of an expansive high volume roadway, accessed only by ramps... to just a long bridge over industrial decay.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by newflyer

It should be renamed to .. Disraeli Overpass.

This would remove any form of Grand Vision of an expansive high volume roadway, accessed only by ramps... to just a long bridge over industrial decay.

As I've pointed out before, it was never supposed to be called the Disraeli Freeway. This is just what people started to call it and finally, after many years, the City relented and gave it that name officially. It was only ever meant to be a long bridge over industrial decay.

[rrskylar]

Why in the hell is a bridge in Winnipeg even named after Disraeli to begin with, what did he do for Winnipeg!

[1ajs]

umm theres a st it runs next to call disraeli st
http://www.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&l...,0.009656&z=17

[bimbamboom]

By PAUL TURENNE, SUN MEDIA


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Maloway cites the costs of Minneapolis bridge in his advocacy for a six-lane Disraeli Overpass. (JASON HALSTEAD/SUN MEDIA)

The province's most vocal proponent of a six-lane Disraeli Overpass says a high-tech bridge now under construction in Minneapolis is proof city hall's estimates on an expanded bridge are over-inflated.
The City of Winnipeg's public works director, however, says that's not a fair comparison and stands by the city's numbers.
Elmwood MLA Jim Maloway has been pushing the city for some time to consider a six-lane option -- twin three-lane spans -- when rebuilding the Disraeli. The city has only presented four-lane options ranging in price from $125 million to $160 million depending on the width of the lanes and sidewalks.
Bill Larkin, director of public works for the city, said a six-lane option has been estimated to cost at least $250 million and isn't needed for another 20 years.
Maloway, who has gathered more than 3,000 signatures in support of a six-lane option, claims the wider overpass can be built for less than the city estimates.

The I-35W bridge that crosses the Mississippi River in Minneapolis collapsed Aug. 1, 2007. Its replacement is set to open in a month or two at a cost of US $234 million. That bridge will have five lanes of traffic in each direction, plus two more each way for rapid transit use.

HALF THE LENGTH
It's about half the length of the Disraeli project, but Ed Innes, president of the Keep Disraeli Open Committee, has crunched the numbers using the Minneapolis figures and calculated that a six-lane Disraeli project would cost less than $200 million.

"Why would a bidder in Winnipeg be that much different than someone only 500 miles away?" Maloway said.
Larkin said the Minneapolis bridge was a 2007 project and inflation would have to be taken into account.

He also said the city's cost estimates include about 30% for non-construction costs like design, public consultation and land acquisition, and questioned whether the Minneapolis figure also factored those in or simply represents pure construction costs.

Maloway noted the 2005 Rapid Transit Task Force report suggested the extra lanes could be added to the Disraeli bridges for $50 million, but Larkin said inflation would also drive that figure up significantly.

Larkin said the $250 million for a six-lane overpass is just an estimate and if the city ever tendered for such a project bids may or may not come in at less than that.
Regardless of how much more a larger overpass might cost, Maloway says the city has never come asking the province for the extra cash, and if it did, it just might get it.
The MLA said he would be willing to lobby Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Steve Ashton and Infrastructure Minister Ron Lemieux for more money for the project.
"I have no reason to believe at this point that the money wouldn't be available," Maloway said. The city is expected to make its decision on the design this fall.

[Only The Lonely..]

Building a six lane bridge would make too much sense.

[Only The Lonely..]

Originally Posted by bimbamboom

FUTURE NEEDS
Cost issues, says Chimko, should be weighed against the city's future needs for not only increasing use by regular vehicles but for buses and cyclists who could hit the Disraeli in greater numbers due to a new "greenway" route in East and North Kildonan.
"Even now, it's probably borderline -- you could almost make a case for it," he said of a six-lane Disraeli.

Coun. Russ Wyatt (Transcona) calls Chimko's stance "long-term practical thinking that's not taking place at city hall."

Though the city has not made a final plan, Katz said it's leaning toward continuing with four lanes "with the ability to expand in the future."

Why start planning for the long term now? The whole history of this town is based on growing a city in the complete absence of planning.

[Spocket]

The traffic engineers are right that we don't really need a six lane , dual-span structure right now. If all goes well, we won't need it in the future either. Saying that we won't need it for another 20 years is kind of a silly argument against it though since the life of the structure is considerably longer than 20 years.

I'm in favour of the six lane option because you could use the extra lanes for transit and/or for HOV uses.

[Andy6]

"Why would a bidder in Winnipeg be that much different than someone only 500 miles away?" Maloway said.

Surely there are many reasons that construction might cost more in a relatively small city in Canada than in a large city in the U.S. The high levels of unionization in Canada, championed by Maloway's own party, might be among them. In any event, it seems pretty silly to me if his argument is based on an assumption that everything costs the same in Winnipeg and Minneapolis.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Pedestrian span in new Disraeli plan
By: Bartley Kives

The latest design for the Disraeli Freeway reconstruction calls for a new pedestrian/cyclist bridge to connect Elmwood with North Point Douglas.

After six months of mulling over three different design options for the Disraeli Freeway, city bridge engineers have chosen to go ahead with a four-lane, single-span structure that will reuse existing concrete foundations and steel girders.

The $140-million design will come with one sidewalk and wider curb lanes to allow vehicles and cyclists to share the road. But it also calls for a brand-new pedestrian/cyclist bridge east of Disraeli Freeway.

A special meeting of city council’s public works committee has been called for tomorrow morning to allow Couns. Bill Clement, Lillian Thomas, Harry Lazarenko and Jeff Browaty to debate the design before council as a whole votes on the plan on Wednesday.

Several northeast Winnipeg politicians, including North Kildonan Coun. Browaty, Elmwood Coun. Thomas and federal NDP hopeful Jim Maloway, have panned a four-lane, single-span design.

They would prefer to see the city build a six-lane, double-span bridge to ease traffic headaches during a construction period that could last 16 months once it begins in 2010.

[1ajs]

wha? ooo ...

[rrskylar]

Once again NE Winnipeg gets the shaft!

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Once again NE Winnipeg gets the shaft!

There's a NE Winnipeg?