HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2081  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 5:43 AM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Greetings from New Jersey
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In the Pascack Valley
Posts: 2,932
LIRR Branch would be easier and faster , you could buy or retrofit existing trains into high capacity ones with space for luggage... The Current plan is a boondoogle and would overload the already at capacity 7 line...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2082  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 8:32 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,582
When you think about it, it's better than nothing.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2083  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 5:19 PM
ardecila's Avatar
ardecila ardecila is offline
TL;DR
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: the city o'wind
Posts: 13,144
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
I believe this idea (and similar ones) was scotched when local residents objected to any rail line over that part of GCP due to it ruining the scenic nature of the road...
Which is even more ridiculous, considering that the Port Authority will now build an elevated structure over the actual scenic part of the road overlooking Flushing Bay. They are pushing that scheme despite neighborhood opposition (which they should do) but if they're gonna ignore the locals anyway, why not build something that's actually useful? The part through Astoria is a pretty typical sunken freeway, not exactly a beauty spot even though I am receptive to the idea that parkways can be valuable scenic amenities in certain cases.

Plus a subway extension would actually serve neighborhood residents esp. low-income ones, so you'd think lefty pols like the newly elected Rep. Ocasio-Cortez would be in favor of that plan versus a dedicated Midtown shuttle, or a shuttle to a shuttle, that only helps business travelers. Of course, for Gov. Cuomo it's a good thing that airport travelers wouldn't have to mix with the smelly plebs on the subway.
__________________
la forme d'une ville change plus vite, hélas! que le coeur d'un mortel...

Last edited by ardecila; Jul 4, 2018 at 5:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2084  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2018, 6:49 PM
Busy Bee's Avatar
Busy Bee Busy Bee is offline
Leftist Correctist
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spaceship Earth
Posts: 5,082
The N should have been extended decades ago. Full stop. No need to debate it. The fact it wasn't, and for the reasons, is an embarrassment.
__________________
You slip me the cash and I'll slip you the wiener. <><><><><><>IMPEACHMENT NOW!

For me it can be reduced to this: For every personal freedom we gained from the automobile, we lost in social cohesion.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2085  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2018, 12:34 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Which is even more ridiculous, considering that the Port Authority will now build an elevated structure over the actual scenic part of the road overlooking Flushing Bay. They are pushing that scheme despite neighborhood opposition (which they should do) but if they're gonna ignore the locals anyway, why not build something that's actually useful? The part through Astoria is a pretty typical sunken freeway, not exactly a beauty spot even though I am receptive to the idea that parkways can be valuable scenic amenities in certain cases.

Plus a subway extension would actually serve neighborhood residents esp. low-income ones, so you'd think lefty pols like the newly elected Rep. Ocasio-Cortez would be in favor of that plan versus a dedicated Midtown shuttle, or a shuttle to a shuttle, that only helps business travelers. Of course, for Gov. Cuomo it's a good thing that airport travelers wouldn't have to mix with the smelly plebs on the subway.
Cuomo really loves cutting the ribbon on shiny transportation baubles of excessive cost and low utility. An extension of the N from Astoria would certainly be less to his liking and would create a, probably small but vocal, number of angry opposers. With transportation planning in NY and NYC as crippled as it is why go though the aggravation when you can just spend more public money for something less useful to the citizenry?

If he cared at all De Blasio could push for such an extension but I'm not sure there is another human alive in NYC elected office that gives less of a shit about the subway than he does.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2086  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2018, 6:32 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,582
I'm not sure how a crowded subway car packed like sardines and buskers rapping, etc would be a good idea for harried airport travelers with baggage. It wouldn't leave a very good impression on business travellers compared to other city's dedicated trian service. The best solution would have been a tunnel spur off the LIRR like the Heathrow Express in London and a dedicated train with special baggage storage compartments. If it doesn't get done in LGA, I propose that for JFK. Maybe they will get it done there. After seeing how these other globa cities do things, why should I expect less for NYC? If that's not feasable, maybe check out Musk's technology that he is implementing in Chicago. If it works, NYC could use it.

Last edited by aquablue; Jul 6, 2018 at 6:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2087  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2018, 11:16 PM
manchester united manchester united is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
Somehow the LGA AirTrain will probably end up with 20-30 minute headways making the whole scheme even more of a joke.
Will be it 24/7?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2088  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2018, 7:38 AM
jmecklenborg jmecklenborg is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
If that's not feasable, maybe check out Musk's technology that he is implementing in Chicago. If it works, NYC could use it.
There is no new technology. Musk's Chicago thing is a publicity stunt that will likely never break ground.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2089  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2018, 8:40 AM
dropdeaded209's Avatar
dropdeaded209 dropdeaded209 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 232
why do new yorkers put up with this? if NYC just screamed ENOUGH and ground the city to a halt the entire U.S. economy would lurch to a stop and the powers that be would suddenly find solutions to these transit problems.
__________________
Director of Starship Chicago and The Absent Column

"Helmut Jahn has never suffered a failure of nerve."
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2090  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2018, 11:29 PM
Qubert Qubert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busy Bee View Post
The N should have been extended decades ago. Full stop. No need to debate it. The fact it wasn't, and for the reasons, is an embarrassment.
The N is already overburdened as it is. Astoria is in the midst of a full tilt building boom and the last thing anyone in this area wants is a family of tourists getting on with 3 Samsonite roll-ons each during rush hour.

That said, I don't support Cuomo's plan either. The smart play would be to have the Air Train run to Woodside-61st via the BQE
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2091  
Old Posted Jul 8, 2018, 11:35 PM
Qubert Qubert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by dropdeaded209 View Post
why do new yorkers put up with this? if NYC just screamed ENOUGH and ground the city to a halt the entire U.S. economy would lurch to a stop and the powers that be would suddenly find solutions to these transit problems.
Or the corporate powers that be simply shift operations to London, Tokyo, Dallas, or any other number of global corporate centers thereby diminishing NY's influence and QOL. Protests don't work for a reason.

The situation will change once it becomes an political/existential crisis the same way the city's finances were in the mid 1970s or the street crime situation in the early 1990s. Both are examples of an issue reaching critical mass then resulting in radical change. DeBlasio isn't motivated to care because it's not on his political bases' radar and besides he's got his second term. Cuomo is worried about getting through this governers race. We'll see if anyone is really focused on this come next year.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2092  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2018, 7:29 AM
aquablue aquablue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,582
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
There is no new technology. Musk's Chicago thing is a publicity stunt that will likely never break ground.
Ok, I'll remember this post and we'll see what happens. Maybe you'll be right, maybe you won't.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2093  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2018, 4:30 PM
Dale Dale is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Orlando
Posts: 3,618
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
There is no new technology. Musk's Chicago thing is a publicity stunt that will likely never break ground.
I don't know, the guy has rocket boosters, ROCKET BOOSTERS detaching and landing themselves beside the Mother Ship. Even the 50's Sci-Fi movies never saw that coming.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2094  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2018, 6:23 PM
k1052 k1052 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qubert View Post
The situation will change once it becomes an political/existential crisis the same way the city's finances were in the mid 1970s or the street crime situation in the early 1990s. Both are examples of an issue reaching critical mass then resulting in radical change. DeBlasio isn't motivated to care because it's not on his political bases' radar and besides he's got his second term. Cuomo is worried about getting through this governers race. We'll see if anyone is really focused on this come next year.
If this is going to come to a head at any point I think it's next year when they shut down the L between Brooklyn and Manhattan. If a major chunk of the remaining services that parallel it have any hiccup whatsoever (an ironclad guarantee) there will be total and massive chaos. Even if everything goes perfectly for an entire year I don't think the mitigation plans are going to cut it as is...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2095  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2018, 7:14 PM
scalziand's Avatar
scalziand scalziand is offline
Mortaaaaaaaaar!
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Naugatuck, CT/Worcester,MA
Posts: 3,464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
I don't know, the guy has rocket boosters, ROCKET BOOSTERS detaching and landing themselves beside the Mother Ship. Even the 50's Sci-Fi movies never saw that coming.
Musk actually had to use an old scifi b-movie with rockets landing on a barge as prior art to defend against a patent troll.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2096  
Old Posted Jul 12, 2018, 7:39 PM
aquablue aquablue is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,582
The city needs, one seat rides to its airports. I would wait until this Musk thing pans out to see if there is potential with it for NYC. If it works at O'hare, it could work at JFK and LaGuardia. That's probably the only hope left for NY. There is no way that a one-seat-ride train is going to happen with conventional rail, there is just nowhere to put it and a regular tunnel would cost far too much for the likes of NYC, a city where transit funding does not flow like cheap wine. Nothing has happened with that Roackaway Branch line project in years and it looks like its nowhere near to happening.

The JFK airtrain to LIRR is not used enough, and most people still take cars jamming up the highways and bridges/tunnels. Why repeat these solutions when they are not good enough? Why repeat the same half assed mistakes of the past?

Last edited by aquablue; Jul 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2097  
Old Posted Jul 14, 2018, 6:06 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 44,392
New York's Economic Future Rides on Its Subways PDF: https://www.manhattan-institute.org/...IB-NG-0718.pdf

Quote:
.....

- New York City subway ridership has nearly doubled since its modern-day trough of 1977, when the subways carried 917.2 million riders, to the recent peak of nearly 1.8 billion in 2015. Yet subway ridership has not grown evenly across the city, nor has it grown fastest where jobs are concentrated. One commonality stands out among a myriad of contributors to the growth in subway ridership. As the number and share of New Yorkers in the labor force have grown, the number and share of those workers who rely on mass transit—especially the subway system—to get to their new jobs have also grown.

- Areas including the lower-income neighborhoods in the South Bronx, Central Harlem, and northern Brooklyn have regained or exceeded their population lows in the late 1970s. The new populations are more likely to be employed than residents one or two generations ago—and they would be unable to get to their jobs if it were not for a reliable transit system. Likewise, the city’s booming service sector, including its hospitality industry, could not succeed were it not for its access to this labor pool.

- Beginning in the 1980s, New York rebuilt its transit infrastructure. As a result, there was much extra capacity on subway trains in the next few decades to absorb new workers as the city’s population grew toward its mid-20th-century peak. Today, though, New York has no such extra capacity. Indeed, overall city ridership has declined slightly since 2016, because the trains—particularly for outer-borough commuters heading for destinations in Manhattan at peak hours—simply cannot fit more people.

- To protect the economic and social gains that have been made in the last several decades—and secure the future of the economy—state and city elected officials and policymakers will have to invest, and invest wisely, in additional subway, bus, ferry, and other transit capacity. Otherwise, they risk presiding over stagnant job growth and workforce participation that is independent of any cyclical recession.

.....
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2098  
Old Posted Jul 15, 2018, 1:59 AM
Qubert Qubert is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
If this is going to come to a head at any point I think it's next year when they shut down the L between Brooklyn and Manhattan. If a major chunk of the remaining services that parallel it have any hiccup whatsoever (an ironclad guarantee) there will be total and massive chaos. Even if everything goes perfectly for an entire year I don't think the mitigation plans are going to cut it as is...
We've already witnessed some pretty spectacular meltdowns and the dithering continues. The problem is the subway is just such a given in NYC life that most people will just continue to accept an ever worsening situation as long is there is no large scale "event" (heaven forbid) like a mass-casualty derailment. Politically it's simply not on the radar. Here in the city you have your various assortment of usually left and lefter interest groups, single issue voters and ethnic/identity politicians who drive local governance here and as far as NYS is concerned everyone above Dutchess County could care less (heck, even LI to a degree isn't really vested in MTA issues)
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 5:47 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.