DALLAS | Development Updates - Page 6

dfwcr8tive · #**101** Posted **Feb 25, 2008, 9:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale

On Dallas Metropolis and HAIF they're talking as if Museum Tower is on life support.

I think you meant Victory Tower.

Dale · #**102** Posted **Feb 25, 2008, 9:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by njjeppson

I think you meant Victory Tower.

No, they're saying that Museum Tower is on hold, with some expressing skepticism that it will be built.

Are you telling me that Victory Tower is also in doubt ?

dfwcr8tive · #**103** Posted **Feb 25, 2008, 10:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale

No, they're saying that Museum Tower is on hold, with some expressing skepticism that it will be built.

Are you telling me that Victory Tower is also in doubt ?

Victory Tower may be on hold because Mandarin Oriental is delaying some of their projects. There hasn't been any news about it either way. Garage construction is wrappping up but tower construction hasn't started.

Museum Tower's marketing efforts are still going on. With all of the progress in the Arts District I don't see that one being canceled. A recent mailing from them included:

"Dallas has incredible momentum. The Woodall Rodgers Park is being planned at our doorstep. Cranes dot the sky in the Arts District, bringing incredible new venues to enjoy. The economy is healthy and growing. It is a great time to live in Downtown Dallas. Museum Tower is proud to be a part of such momentum. Over the holidays the team released and sold twenty homes in just over thirty days in a landmark Founder's Program.
This spring the energy will continue to build as we offer an additional twenty homes in a limited release. "

Dale · #**104** Posted **Feb 25, 2008, 10:25 PM**

Now, we were already made aware that construction on Victory Tower would not begin until the garage was finished.

Dale · #**105** Posted **Feb 28, 2008, 3:16 PM**

Over on Dallas Metropolis they are speculating that Victory Tower has been shelved. Coupled with Museum Tower being up in the air, and Dallas' best and tallest designs are now doubtful.

themapman · #**106** Posted **Feb 28, 2008, 7:17 PM**

^^Lot's of wild speculation to date. Some people don't always understand that these things take time!

stranger · #**107** Posted **Feb 28, 2008, 9:01 PM**

Yeah, it is only speculation so I'm not too worried about it. BUT, we are treading through troubled waters right now economy-wise, so it wouldn't be absolutely surprising to me if one or both of these proposals were canceled.

I thought that Dallas and Texas for the most part had weathered the housing storm, but I guess it's starting to affect these markets as well.

Concept · #**108** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 2:57 AM**

I don't think Victory will ever be built out the way it was planned. Those were very ambitious plans, but I don't think this nervous economy will allow much more building in uptown. We better enjoy these cranes while we can. I think it's a very bad sign that a structure currently under construction in Victory is being stopped and scaled down before it is even finished.

KevinFromTexas · #**109** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 4:24 AM**

So the Victory Tower/Mandarin Oriental, (the 650 footer) has changed plans or won't start?

TexasStar · #**110** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 8:32 PM**

There has been no announcements from Hillwood about the Mandarin and as of today's Dallas Business Journal they are still calling it the first element of PHASE III and the centerpiece of the development.
Museum Tower is still officially aiming for a April/May groundbreaking.

Even if the current recession delays these projects one or two years so what?
It's amazing how people love to spread doom and gloom. Maybe that's the real reason why things are spiraling downward. Too many glass-half empty people in this country.

Dale · #**111** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 8:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasStar

There has been no announcements from Hillwood about the Mandarin and as of today's Dallas Business Journal they are still calling it the first element of PHASE III and the centerpiece of the development.
Museum Tower is still officially aiming for a April/May groundbreaking.

Even if the current recession delays these projects one or two years so what?
It's amazing how people love to spread doom and gloom. Maybe that's the real reason why things are spiraling downward. Too many glass-half empty people in this country.

I agree with your thesis as to self-fulfilling prophecy, and would only point out that it is the Dallasites on dallasmetropolis.com that I'm getting this from.

Concept · #**112** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 9:26 PM**

O.K. have it your way. The glass is half full. Stopping construction on an unfinished parking garage before it is finished can only lead to good things for Victory Park. Eliminating the retail portion of the parking garage is a very healthy sign that this project is all going as planned.

That cold, fortress like design is very welcoming and the streets in the area are packed with many shoppers. At least a dozen of them. The retailers in the area couldn't be happier with their their profits. In 5 or 10 years (long after they've closed shop) they will be proud to have been the ones to give up their life savings on this marvelous dream.

Do you really think the developers are going to rush to make an announcement that plans are being scaled down? Expect all hell to break loose any day. This doom and gloom is just about to hit the media. And we all know that they always choose to view the glass half full. Don't they.

I wanted to see Victory succeed as much as anyone, but I think we better brace ourselves. It is no secret that uptown is overbuilt.

A delay of one or two years wouldn't kill me, but how often to things get built if they are put on hold for a few years. It seems to me, we have been waiting a very long time for Victory Tower to rise.

Yes, I have some serious doubts about Dallas right now.

themapman · #**113** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 9:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasStar

There has been no announcements from Hillwood about the Mandarin and as of today's Dallas Business Journal they are still calling it the first element of PHASE III and the centerpiece of the development.
Museum Tower is still officially aiming for a April/May groundbreaking.

Even if the current recession delays these projects one or two years so what?
It's amazing how people love to spread doom and gloom. Maybe that's the real reason why things are spiraling downward. Too many glass-half empty people in this country.

Agreed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale

I agree with your thesis as to self-fulfilling prophecy, and would only point out that it is the Dallasites on dallasmetropolis.com that I'm getting this from.

Yeah, I knew that. I love the passion there (and here) - but people pay so much attention to every little detail, at the first glimpse of something unexpected they freak out and fear the worst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concept

O.K. have it your way. The glass is half full. Stopping construction on an unfinished parking garage before it is finished can only lead to good things for Victory Park. Eliminating the retail portion of the parking garage is a very healthy sign that this project is all going as planned.

That cold, fortress like design is very welcoming and the streets in the area are packed with many shoppers. At least a dozen of them. The retailers in the area couldn't be happier with their their profits. In 5 or 10 years (long after they've closed shop) they will be proud to have been the ones to give up their life savings on this marvelous dream.

Do you really think the developers are going to rush to make an announcement that plans are being scaled down? Expect all hell to break loose any day. This doom and gloom is just about to hit the media. And we all know that they always choose to view the glass half full. Don't they.

I wanted to see Victory succeed as much as anyone, but I think we better brace ourselves. It is no secret that uptown is overbuilt.

A delay of one or two years wouldn't kill me, but how often to things get built if they are put on hold for a few years. It seems to me, we have been waiting a very long time for Victory Tower to rise.

Yes, I have some serious doubts about Dallas right now.

I wouldn't judge it until it really is complete. There are a ton of things left to be done. The streetscape might need some work but that's fixable. If you really have serious doubts about Dallas, I suggest a trip to the Midwest to see what a city that is really struggling looks like.

TexasStar · #**114** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 9:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concept

O.K. have it your way. The glass is half full. Stopping construction on an unfinished parking garage before it is finished can only lead to good things for Victory Park. Eliminating the retail portion of the parking garage is a very healthy sign that this project is all going as planned.

That cold, fortress like design is very welcoming and the streets in the area are packed with many shoppers. At least a dozen of them. The retailers in the area couldn't be happier with their their profits. In 5 or 10 years (long after they've closed shop) they will be proud to have been the ones to give up their life savings on this marvelous dream.

Do you really think the developers are going to rush to make an announcement that plans are being scaled down? Expect all hell to break loose any day. This doom and gloom is just about to hit the media. And we all know that they always choose to view the glass half full. Don't they.

I wanted to see Victory succeed as much as anyone, but I think we better brace ourselves. It is no secret that uptown is overbuilt.

A delay of one or two years wouldn't kill me, but how often to things get built if they are put on hold for a few years. It seems to me, we have been waiting a very long time for Victory Tower to rise.

Yes, I have some serious doubts about Dallas right now.

The House, The Cirque and One Victory Park are all three nearing completion. The condo, apartment, and office tower trio will give Victory Park more than the boost it would need to wait out construction of the Mandarin Oriental. Again, despite the delay of one tower (even though it's not scheduled for completion until 2010) anyone can see that Victory is already a huge success.

But, I realize you don't care about any of that. You see this as a golden opportunity to try and bash Big D. You're wasting your time, since no one in Dallas cares what you think.

Concept · #**115** Posted **Feb 29, 2008, 11:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by themapman

Agreed.

Yeah, I knew that. I love the passion there (and here) - but people pay so much attention to every little detail, at the first glimpse of something unexpected they freak out and fear the worst.

I wouldn't judge it until it really is complete. There are a ton of things left to be done. The streetscape might need some work but that's fixable. If you really have serious doubts about Dallas, I suggest a trip to the Midwest to see what a city that is really struggling looks like.

I don't have serious doubts so much about Dallas in the present. The cranes are still up everywhere, and more will be going up. But, I will be VERY surprised if most of the announced projects actually get built anytime soon. It's the future (next 5 to 10 years) that bothers me. Uptown is overbuilt. The economy is unstable. People are not spending what they were when all these buildings broke ground.

What I fear the most is that unfinished projects like Victory will hurt Dallas' reputation for years to come. Victory could very easily be an icon to unrealized dreams, big promises, and excess. Dallas already has a reputation of promising more than it can deliver and Victory could be the poster child of that perception.

TexasBoi · #**116** Posted **Mar 1, 2008, 12:08 AM**

I don't think Uptown is actually overbuilt. I think it's overbuilt with these high end expensive luxurious projects. As I said on SSC, the area has too many luxurious projects and it's hurting the market. They just recently opened the Ritz, the W, the Azure, and other projects and all of them are just about expensive.

Where are the other highrises catering to the average worker? Where is the retail that caters to us? Why are most of these new restuarants charging consumers an arm,leg, head, eyes just to order a glass of wine or some steak? This has been brought up on Dallasmetropolis many times and I think they basically all see what's going on right now with the market. It's that there is too much catering to one income in that area. Why would any of us want to go to Victory Park when we can't afford anything in it.

Dallas has one of the strongest economies in the nation so it will bounce back and it will affect the housing market. But I would hope that most residences and retails are built to cover all of the population.

TexasStar · #**117** Posted **Mar 1, 2008, 2:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasBoi

...Dallas has one of the strongest economies in the nation so it will bounce back and it will affect the housing market. But I would hope that most residences and retails are built to cover all of the population.

There are affordable residences and retail being built in Central Dallas. But, they are north of Woodall-Rogers in Downtown proper. Uptown land prices are driving the price points you are seeing Uptown. It's just economics. That dirt is too costly to put up $175,000 high-rise condos.

Check out The Mercantile, The Republic, Third Rail Lofts, Mosaic, The Beat condos, and all the other renovations. They are all leasing up nicely. Uptown is not the only place in Dallas for high-rise urban living.

TexasBoi · #**118** Posted **Mar 1, 2008, 3:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasStar

There are affordable residences and retail being built in Central Dallas. But, they are north of Woodall-Rogers in Downtown proper. Uptown land prices are driving the price points you are seeing Uptown. It's just economics. That dirt is too costly to put up $175,000 high-rise condos.

Check out The Mercantile, The Republic, Third Rail Lofts, Mosaic, The Beat condos, and all the other renovations. They are all leasing up nicely. Uptown is not the only place in Dallas for high-rise urban living.

I probably should have been more specific in my post to not have any confusion. But I was only really talking about Uptown. I knew about the great renovations in downtown. But I was mostly speaking on Uptown and it's momentum. Is there no economic reason for them to never built an affordable highrise or midrise condo in Uptown? What about the retail? Especially in an area like Victory Park who really needs it?

I don't have this doom and gloom and negativity about Dallas as some others do as I have really loved what they have been doing over the past few 5 years. But I just hope that they didn't get too far ahead of themselves with these million and multi-million dollar condos. I guess Dallas needs to just simply slow down, take a deep breath, and take their time. Meaning, I think Victory Tower will eventually get built. Just not at the time that we all would love for it to be built.

Concept · #**119** Posted **Mar 1, 2008, 5:39 AM**

Victory Tower has been on hold for a very long time now. How much longer do you think it will before they break ground? Do they have to start working on the parking garage again before the tower can go forward? Does anyone without an agenda think that retail will be re-added to the parking garage?

And how long do you think it will take it to be completed? It's only 1/3 built and they appear to be stopping construction. Not a good sign.

TexasBoi · #**120** Posted **Mar 2, 2008, 12:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concept

Victory Tower has been on hold for a very long time now. How much longer do you think it will before they break ground? Do they have to start working on the parking garage again before the tower can go forward? Does anyone without an agenda think that retail will be re-added to the parking garage?

And how long do you think it will take it to be completed? It's only 1/3 built and they appear to be stopping construction. Not a good sign.

The project maybe underfinanced (is that a word lol) right now but I do have confidence that they can and will get it done. I also wouldn't mind seeing them scale it down and have midrises built in Victory like Washington DC.