Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

ah yes. Or the "what is the use of learning French when Chinese is much more useful?" which I heard a lot when I lived out in Western Canada. Spoken by people that I can predict, with 100% certainty, will never learn even a shred of Chinese.

It's amazing how in a society that elevates and exalts "multiculturalism", we end up with so many monolingual speakers.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

It's amazing how in a society that elevates and exalts "multiculturalism", we end up with so many monolingual speakers.

That's because multiculturalism is really about seeing people with colourful costumes, occasionally sampling interesting food (and maybe even trying out exotic-looking sexual partners) and not really about people exchanging and intermingling to the point where they can "fit in" to other cultures. Something which often requires language learning.

Certainly not with respect to the cultures that were already present in Canada (anglophone, francophone, multiple Indigenous). If anything multiculturalism has arguably been a barrier to exchanges between these cultures.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Yea ..reminds me that my SO and some of our Quebecois friends was finding the accent of Celine on this season's OD Andalousie to be very jarring and rough to their ears, and they said she has a heavy NB Acadien accent. Younger Quebecois can turn on and off the Quebec accent at will, no different than Torontonians speaking in patois in casual settings. Once it's in a professional setting it's full on international-style French.

Haha! It's hilarious that you would bring that up. My kids watch OD and yes her accent (she is from SE NB so it's thicker than N NB) does stand out from the candidates from Quebec. Though my kids find her accent charming and endearing - they have close Acadian relatives though.

One thing that is often different about Quebecers is that they can more easily make that switch to international-style French than many francophones from outside Quebec can.

I think that's generally because Quebecers are significantly more likely to have had their higher education in French and work in a francophone professional environment. For francophones outside Quebec, French is often still only a family language. Sometimes spoken with friends. Not so much when out and about in society.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Interesting. When this was posted, I didn't even think about the translated podcasts being made available to the international francophone diaspora. I just thought they were anglophone podcasts being translated for the convenience of French speaking Quebec residents. Either way, the CBC should have hired a Quebec based firm to do the translation.



At least back in the 50s & 60s, there was such a thing as "CBC English", just like "BBC English". Announcers and presenters had to have as neutral and bland accent as possible. This still persists today, but, perhaps not as rigidly enforced.

Why not a firm from Moncton to do the work?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by niwell

Oh yeah that was the other one! I'm sure that's been replaced with something else now that China is no longer seen in the same light.

Now I’m picturing a Western Canadian who’s JUST finally (painstakingly and at the cost of much effort) achieved fluency in Hindi (“Damn it, Justin!!!”)

[Dengler Avenue]

I also noticed one thing:
I sent a bilingual email (French then English) to MTQ and they responded in French only.
I sent a bilingual email (English then French) to New Brunswick Infrastructure and Transportation, and they replied in English only.

[YOWetal]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...bled-1.6995081

Interesting. Will Ontario finally retaliate? Quebec has been an outlier in charging other Canadians vastly higher rates. Nova Scotia has slightly higher rate. If Ontario retaliates this would mostly be irrelevant to Quebec with the exception of Gatineau where it's Francophone students who study at the University of Ottawa. Another quirk is many non tax paying but Canadian citizens come back and enjoy Canadian rates. This doesn't apply in Quebec except for those born in Quebec actually get this benefit. This isn't the case in Nova Scotia and I assume wouldn't be in Ontario either. Retaliation by Ontario has the potential to slow down inter-provincial migration which is a goal of this for Quebec but might be a sad byproduct for the rest of Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Now I’m picturing a Western Canadian who’s JUST finally (painstakingly and at the cost of much effort) achieved fluency in Hindi (“Damn it, Justin!!!”)

You can invite every single Western Canadian who actually did that for a ride in your Mini-Cooper, all at the same time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...bled-1.6995081

Interesting. Will Ontario finally retaliate? Quebec has been an outlier in charging other Canadians vastly higher rates. Nova Scotia has slightly higher rate. If Ontario retaliates this would mostly be irrelevant to Quebec with the exception of Gatineau where it's Francophone students who study at the University of Ottawa. Another quirk is many non tax paying but Canadian citizens come back and enjoy Canadian rates. This doesn't apply in Quebec except for those born in Quebec actually get this benefit. This isn't the case in Nova Scotia and I assume wouldn't be in Ontario either. Retaliation by Ontario has the potential to slow down inter-provincial migration which is a goal of this for Quebec but might be a sad byproduct for the rest of Canada.

Up until now, Quebec has been charging out-of-province students the exact same rate that they would be paying for the same program in their home province.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Up until now, Quebec has been charging out-of-province students the exact same rate that they would be paying for the same program in their home province.

I don't think that is correct. It might be the same as the Ontario rate but pretty sure if you come from somewhere with cheap tuition like Newfoundland you will pay the same $9k. But yeah with the heavier subsidization from Quebec the policy did make sense. They are becoming a provincial cash cow for students with international like tuition fees. In some senses it doesn't matter what the rate is relatively a place that has more students from outside the province is subsidizing those students. A Quebec student isn't paying Ontario taxes regardless of the rate though previously it was all considered a wash. Given the likely fall in out of province students the lost revenues of those students will make the windfall smaller than expected and the real reason is reducing anglophone "immigrants" from Ontario who stay after their studies but are exempt from language laws etc. I know several who live a very Anglo life in Montreal after studying there.

[MonctonRad]

I imagine the university that will be most hurt by this will be Concordia. McGill still has the prestige thing. Bishops is a lot like Mount Allison - small leafy Ivy League vibe.

Concordia is just an urban Montreal university. I wonder how many out of province students (from the rest of Canada) go there now?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I imagine the university that will be most hurt by this will be Concordia. McGill still has the prestige thing. Bishops is a lot like Mount Allison - small leafy Ivy League vibe.

Concordia is just an urban Montreal university. I wonder how many out of province students (from the rest of Canada) go there now?

you messin' with my alma mater!! But yeah, this sucks donkey balls for Concordia and Bishops.

Concordia is to Montreal/McGill what York is to Toronto/UofT and what Simon Fraser is to Vancouver/UBC.

It is a shame that Quebec feels that it has to weaken its Anglo-Quebec institutions in order to shore up its Franco-Quebec institutions. Anglos have been here for a very long time, and have helped to build the city/province.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

It is a shame that Quebec feels that it has to weaken its Anglo-Quebec institutions in order to shore up its Franco-Quebec institutions. Anglos have been here for a very long time, and have helped to build the city/province.

Well, Palestinians have been in the land currently called Israel for an even longer time and look what's happening to them!

Of course, Quebec anglophones haven't resorted to violent insurrection and terrorism (yet)...........

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, Palestinians have been in the land currently called Israel for an even longer time and look what's happening to them!

Of course, Quebec anglophones haven't resorted to violent insurrection and terrorism (yet)...........

well there was that nutcase Anglo that had bad intentions towards Pauline Marois, and opened fire at her victory speech at 2012

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ecois-minority

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Well, Palestinians have been in the land currently called Israel for an even longer time and look what's happening to them!

Of course, Quebec anglophones haven't resorted to violent insurrection and terrorism (yet)...........

Almost never...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Montreal_shooting

[Acajack]

I would think that these new rules would hurt Bishop's and McGill the most.

For different reasons: McGill probably gets more foreign students than any other university in Quebec whereas Bishop's is top-heavy with ROCers. I believe close to 50% or even more of Bishop's student body is from Ontario.

Concordia is more of a "local" anglo university, and doesn't have as many ROCers or foreign students. Concordia is also stereotyped at the anglo-allophone ethnic university in Montreal, whereas McGill is stereotyped as old stock WASP.

Of course, people from all demographics (including francophones) go to all of these universities.

[MolsonExport]

At Concordia, you can choose to submit all your assignments in French. I had a few submitted in French every year to the various classes that I taught. This includes graduate courses. I taught at McGill, but I can't recall specifically if that was also a provision. It may not have been back in the day. At HEC, where I also taught, graduate students in some programs could submit their work in French, or English, or Spanish.

Concordia is the result of a forced merger between two Anglo universities: Loyola College (Jesuits) and Sir George Williams (begun by the next-door YMCA, offering part-time and evening classes to those working full time...it was the first such offering in the country). Concordia has come a long way from its very humble beginnings on Rue Sherbrooke Ouest and Drummond Street.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

At Concordia, you can choose to submit all your assignments in French. I had a few submitted in French every year to the various classes that I taught. This includes graduate courses.

Concordia is the result of a forced merger between two Anglo universities: Loyola College (Jesuits) and Sir George Williams (begun by the next-door YMCA, offering part-time and evening classes to those working full time...it was the first such offering in the country). Concordia has come a long way from its very humble beginnings on Rue Sherbrooke Ouest and Drummond Street.

I may be mistaken but I believe you can submit your assignments in French at McGill and Bishop's as well.

You can also submit assignments in English at HEC and U de Montréal. 99% positive of that.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I may be mistaken but I believe you can submit your assignments in French at McGill and Bishop's as well.

You can also submit assignments in English at HEC and U de Montréal. 99% positive of that.

sure, probably so. It has been nearly 20 years since I taught full courses at the three universities that I attended/taught (Concordia, McGill, HEC_udeM)

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Foreign “place”, sure, but technically, not a foreign country.

Same for us: Vancouver for example is a foreign place, yet, when living there a couple years ago, I didn’t have to jump through immigration hoops in order to be in that foreign location.

How about social security and retirement pensions? Does it transfer automatically from one province to the other? In the EU there is free movement of workers, but the biggest brake on actually moving to other EU countries, besides the issue of language, is social security and pensions. That's why few Europeans actually go work in another EU country.