SkyTrain Accessibility

[Alon]

How wheelchair-accessible is SkyTrain in practice? On paper I know it's fully accessible, but elsewhere, on-paper and in-practice accessibility are not the same. I promised a disability activist in New York that I'd ask, because of the question of whether it's possible to make it easy for wheelchair passengers to board a driverless system.

Some numbers: in New York, the standards call for 5 cm vertical gaps between the platforms and the cars on the subway (and on commuter rail, the floor height is 7.5 cm higher than the platform height) and 10 cm horizontal gaps. The vertical gaps are often exceeded, and wheelchair passengers get stuck. In addition, the elevators at accessible stations are sometimes out of order.

In Vancouver I just now went and measured the same gaps on all car types (Canada Line, Mk I Expo, Mk II Expo) and they were about 2.5 cm vertical and 5 cm horizontal; on the trip where I did the measurement, I saw a passenger in a motorized wheelchair board without trouble at Waterfront. I did those measurements with my fingers, not a ruler, so the numbers may be off. I do not know anything about whether the elevators fail and if so how often.

Mainly I'm interested in hearing from disabled people, or from people who have talked to disabled people about this, but if you have more accurate numbers about platform gaps (here or in other cities!), this is good too.

[BCPhil]

I'm not a disabled person, so I don't want to speak on their behalves, but I've never seen any serious issues regarding wheelchair access onto Skytrains. I've never seen anyone ever have any trouble with the gap in a wheelchair, with every single one I've ever seen roll onto the train with ease. I've never seen any single incident with a person in a wheelchair, except for once at Stadium when some drunk homeless person was sitting in one pushing it around with his feet like an office chair, but that's because he didn't know how to steer it and ran into the side of the car.

And speaking for my own personal experience, I've never had trouble pushing/pulling rolling luggage or strollers or bicycles onto Skytrain cars. The gaps are always the same width, at every station.

And once you learn the system a little, the automated train stops the trains in the exact same location every time, so the doors (depending on the train version) will always be at the same location without fail. And then you will notice that several of the doors on the newer MK II trains are actually wider (with wheelchair logos on the doors) for wheelchairs near the ends of the train (which tend to be close to where the elevators are as most are at the ends of the platforms). Behind these doors the cars are better laid out to allow room for a wheelchair to park comfortably. So after getting on at "your station" a few times, you learn where to wait for the train so the door opens right in front of you.

The elevators tend to be in good working order almost all of the time. And when they are not there are system wide announcements on the LCD screens on the platforms informing riders (sometimes even audio announcements if the disruption is sudden and unexpected). Translink will then set up a special bus service between affected stations. So for example, if the Patterson elevator is out, you can get off at Metrotown, and there will be a handy dart bus for you that will take you to Joyce, no stopping (you may have to call it and wait a few minutes, I'm not sure).

I imagine your friend is curious about the "driverless" system because he is concerned not having a driver could lead to trouble for the disabled to board the train? Like not enough time? And I don't want to infer anything about New Yorkers, but we in Vancouver are pretty decent people. Almost anyone on a train near a door (and riding while standing in the doorways is a way of life for many even in empty cars), if they see a whleechair heading for an open door they will hold it open for them. And because it is so easy to get on that it only takes a second or two, so it doesn't disrupt the service. And the doors stay open for so long already that it is usually not required to hold the door open anyway. It happens so rarely. Heck, even if you miss a train, there will be another one in a couple minutes.

And on top of it all, there are attendants in many of the popular stations that will help you out if you ask them. Many people here complain they just stand around, yeah, because they are waiting for someone to ask them for help, once you do they are usually helpful (directions, helping you on a train). And the station platforms are large enough (thanks to them not being middle of the street LRT stations or 100 year old holes in the ground) that there is room to maneuver around.

So, I would say it is actually easier for disabled people to get on our driverless system than most other systems in the world. If that's what you were wondering.

So in return I have a question for you and your friend: why would it not be possible to make it easy for wheelchair passengers to board a driverless system? What were you worried about happening? What would make it harder?

[Pinion]

I used to get almost weekly texts telling me that the seabus elevator to waterfront station was broken. Whoever is in charge of fixing it is obviously milking it for all it's worth.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Pinion

I used to get almost weekly texts telling me that the seabus elevator to waterfront station was broken. Whoever is in charge of fixing it is obviously milking it for all it's worth.

He did ask specifically about Skytrain

[Pinion]

Oh yes, pardon me, I forgot waterfront station has nothing to do with skytrains.

I'd guess other older elevators are in similar condition but that was the only one I got text alerts for.

[Alon]

To clarify, in New York there are two employees on each train - a driver and a conductor. The conductor is redundant. In an enormous comment thread in which the only argument against eliminating the conductor was "New York is special," a disability rights advocate explained that she's against the elimination, because New York doesn't quite have level boarding, and the conductors are in principle supposed to help with boarding. (In practice, not all are trained in this.)

The only thing you should infer about New Yorkers is that they have a transit agency that hates its passengers.

[red-paladin]

There are certainly a few places in the system that need improvement. While Scott Road and Main Street station are getting their extra elevators on the sides that didn't have them, Waterfront still has no elevator on the westernmost end of the Expo line platform.

[mezzanine]

WRT driverless operation / automated doors and wheelchairs, i've never seen serious issues with this (FWIW, i'm not disabled). I agree with BC phil, travelllers with wheelchairs know where to wait on the platform to speed boarding. if a large object (like a WC) gets stuck then the train will not move - ifn fact if you hold the doors for several cycles, it will trigger a lock down of the train where an attendant has inspect the train.

the only time i have heard a problem with the automated doors is where a non-disabled woman thought she could hold the door with a plastic shopping bag, while it was strapped to her wrist.

[DKaz]

West Coast Express has a conductor too to assist passengers.

[officedweller]

I think the newer MKIIs or the Canada Line cars have a handicapped logo on the outside of the cars to indcate where there's extra space inside to fit a wheelchair.

http://www.translink.ca/~/media/docu...20mk%20ii.ashx

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by DKaz

West Coast Express has a conductor too to assist passengers.

The difference might be that WCE is considered to be Commuter Rail, using 'heavy rail' equipment and CPR crews, and is also sharing the tracks with CPR freights.

If I remember correctly, the WCE trains are scheduled just like the freight trains that share the CPR line between Mission and Vancouver.

I don't know the current labour rules, but in the past any passenger train in Canada (aka ViaRail, Rocky Mountaineer, GO Transit, or WCE) had a conductor for each car.

[Alon]

Does the WCE even have level boarding? Most commuter rail operations in North America outside the New York area don't. (And even in the New York area, as I mentioned before, level boarding really means a 3" gap between the train and the platform, which violates the Americans with Disabilities Act.)

[GeeCee]

The WCE stations do have elevated ramps built into the platforms.. not sure how those work exactly but maybe a ramp of some sort would be extended from the train to allow for wheelchairs.

http://www.translink.ca/en/Rider-Inf...lity-Aids.aspx details some of TransLink's accessibility features.