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  #1981  
Old Posted May 16, 2015, 6:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
This is a 1.2 BILLION dollar - largest building investment in Pennsylvania's history - Norman Foster building. That should, honestly, be where your concerns end. It's going to be wonderful. Stop worrying about insecure manly things like size.
None of those things make the roofs height taller than CC's, it's just a curious observation that many skyscraper fans have of this project. I've already alluded to having becoming used to it and I will most definitely love this building regardless.
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  #1982  
Old Posted May 16, 2015, 9:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post
This is a 1.2 BILLION dollar - largest building investment in Pennsylvania's history - Norman Foster building. That should, honestly, be where your concerns end. It's going to be wonderful. Stop worrying about insecure manly things like size.
I'm with tower. It's just a curious observation. Like I said, given the cost it's reasonable to wonder why it's not taller because it was likely a deliberate decision.

I wonder if they simply wanted to keep Comcast Center the dominant "center" of their vertical campus. The CITC won't have a large plaza like Comcast Center. The current center and its plaza are easily big enough to hold both buildings, but Comcast chose to set the primary tower away from the street making it stand out as Philadelphia's most imposing skyscraper from the sidewalk.

I remember talking about New York's Seagrams building in an architecture class, about how at the time, developers were maximizing their space by using every possible square foot of Manhattan's stepped height restrictions. Seagrams wanted to stand out, and instead of stepping its tower back from the sidewalk as it rose, they deliberately "wasted space" with a large plaza leading up to a completely vertical tower. I see a lot of that logic in Comcast Center. They want to be really noticed, and unless you're looking at the skyline from a distance, Comcast Center's biggest presence is at the street. Having an even taller tower to the left could even aesthetically distract from that.
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  #1983  
Old Posted May 16, 2015, 9:11 PM
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Then whats the point for the spire, that seems to make citc imposing right?
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  #1984  
Old Posted May 16, 2015, 9:30 PM
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Then whats the point for the spire, that seems to make citc imposing right?
I thought about that after I posted it, and I wonder if maybe that's why it's positioned on the west side of the building and not a bit taller than it is. I don't know if you'll be able to see the spire from Comcast Center's plaza.
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  #1985  
Old Posted May 16, 2015, 11:17 PM
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I wonder where the webcam has gone, its been gone for like a week now. I hope it comes back!
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  #1986  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 12:47 AM
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^ This one will get you through.

http://phillynews.net/#webcam

The other one is frozen to a frame a week ago.
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  #1987  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 2:41 AM
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I personally think its a pretty cool buidling
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  #1988  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by tower View Post
I'll still end up liking the building regardless, but I wonder the same thing. It kinda bugs me that it "falls short", because "falling short" of things seems to be a longstanding Philly tradition haha.
Negadelphian! You are the problem! (Negadelphian: person who perpetrates a negative view of the city, therefor making it so.)
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  #1989  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 12:34 PM
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I think with any increase in height, the citc will certainly appear larger. The cc itself narrows at a lower height than the city;and with the cooling tower and the spire working together the citc will have a more intimidating appearance. Even as is, I dig it.
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  #1990  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 2:28 PM
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Originally Posted by FiggyOlive View Post
Negadelphian! You are the problem! (Negadelphian: person who perpetrates a negative view of the city, therefor making it so.)
Do you see my avatar? I'm doing side kick in front of the Philadelphia skyline. And that's because I love my city, and think maybe the roof should be a bit higher to make more of a statement. Some of y'all are just just in denial. The end result will be a beautiful skyscraper but some of us question the roof height. Period.
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  #1991  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 3:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tower View Post
Do you see my avatar? I'm doing side kick in front of the Philadelphia skyline. And that's because I love my city, and think maybe the roof should be a bit higher to make more of a statement. Some of y'all are just just in denial. The end result will be a beautiful skyscraper but some of us question the roof height. Period.
I don't think he's talking about your roof height complaint. That complaint is pointless to anyone but the weirdest skyscraper height fetishists but it doesn't make you a negadelphian.

I think he's talking about your comment about philadelphia having a longstanding tradition of falling short. Which is a negadelphian thing to say about your city.
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  #1992  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 4:16 PM
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
I don't think he's talking about your roof height complaint. That complaint is pointless to anyone but the weirdest skyscraper height fetishists but it doesn't make you a negadelphian.

I think he's talking about your comment about philadelphia having a longstanding tradition of falling short. Which is a negadelphian thing to say about your city.
It's a reality for real Philadelphians - our sports teams break our hearts year after year and haven't won many championships, we have a stigma to many, and we lost our economy to NYC and government to DC, etc. It's one of the oldest most badass cities in the country, and you are in denial if you don't acknowledge our shortcomings.
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  #1993  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 8:13 PM
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It's a reality for real Philadelphians - our sports teams break our hearts year after year and haven't won many championships, we have a stigma to many, and we lost our economy to NYC and government to DC, etc. It's one of the oldest most badass cities in the country, and you are in denial if you don't acknowledge our shortcomings.
Bullshit. First off, I'm an adult so while I enjoy watching sports luckily I don't tie my self esteem or my pride in my city to the outcome of sporting events.

And saying something like Philadelphia always comes up short isn't "acknowledging your shortcomings" it is being needlessly and hyperbolically negative. I mean honestly Philadelphia always comes up short in what sense? What do you even mean and why even say it?

I was just in Indianapolis for business and I took a walking tour with an Indianapolis native who seemed to truly believe Indianapolis was the best city in the world. I mean, obviously I disagree, most would. But I respected his opinion because when it comes right down to it "the best city in the world" is entirely subjective and why wouldn't you think your city is the best in the world? If you didn't, why live there?

My point is people in cities all over the world are able to muster pride for their city and the vast majority of them aren't half as impressive as Philadelphia. Only a true Negadelphian could look at the construction of a truly innovative building as a failure over something as stupid as "roof height" and look at it as another example of Philadelphia's long history of coming up short.

That's not say Philadelphia or this building doesn't have flaws. It's just the woe is me, we can't ever do anything right negadelphian attitude is annoying and especially perplexing considering how well things have been going here as of late.
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  #1994  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 8:20 PM
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the building could be a one trillion thousand dollar castle made from solid gold by will smith himself with a roof height that falls short of comcast center

i love my city and acknowledge the good and the bad but ultimately am a bare naked cheerleader for this town

all i'm referring to is roof height here (and that philly has a stigma with sports and social status etc that's only recognized by people that don't know better)

calm down and drink a beer
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  #1995  
Old Posted May 17, 2015, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tower View Post
Do you see my avatar? I'm doing side kick in front of the Philadelphia skyline. And that's because I love my city, and think maybe the roof should be a bit higher to make more of a statement. Some of y'all are just just in denial. The end result will be a beautiful skyscraper but some of us question the roof height. Period.
That avatar is epic, and I hate using that word.

Nothing wrong with being a realist. One of the best things I love about Philadelphia is it's reputation. It keeps out the phonies. People either get Philadelphia or they don't.

In my opinion, Philadelphia needs no defense and most Philadelphians don't even bother. We're too cool for school, we're smoking out back with the janitor. Chicks dig us 'cause we're bad ass and the cool kids can't stand us because we don't care what anyone thinks.

I've said plenty of choice things about Philadelphia myself - the litter, poverty, crime - but that doesn't mean I don't love this city. Questioning development doesn't make someone a Negadelphian, it means you've got a foot in the game. Blindly buying into an undeserved reputation is what licked the icing off the cake of Brooklyn. Philadelphia's real because people care enough to ask questions. Keep 'em coming.
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  #1996  
Old Posted May 18, 2015, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by philatonian View Post
That avatar is epic, and I hate using that word.

Nothing wrong with being a realist. One of the best things I love about Philadelphia is it's reputation. It keeps out the phonies. People either get Philadelphia or they don't.

In my opinion, Philadelphia needs no defense and most Philadelphians don't even bother. We're too cool for school, we're smoking out back with the janitor. Chicks dig us 'cause we're bad ass and the cool kids can't stand us because we don't care what anyone thinks.

I've said plenty of choice things about Philadelphia myself - the litter, poverty, crime - but that doesn't mean I don't love this city. Questioning development doesn't make someone a Negadelphian, it means you've got a foot in the game. Blindly buying into an undeserved reputation is what licked the icing off the cake of Brooklyn. Philadelphia's real because people care enough to ask questions. Keep 'em coming.
Saying Philadelphia "always comes up short" is not asking a question, it's being negadelphian.

Also just using the term "roof height," much less bitching about it is the total opposite of being "too cool for school."

That is all.
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  #1997  
Old Posted May 18, 2015, 1:02 AM
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Originally Posted by allovertown View Post
Saying Philadelphia "always comes up short" is not asking a question, it's being negadelphian.

Also just using the term "roof height," much less bitching about it is the total opposite of being "too cool for school."

That is all.
Yeah, but I think tower meant "always comes up short" in a historical context, and pre-2000 Philadelphia did have a reputation of coming up short, and that's what the national radar largely still thinks of us. I don't know, he'll have to speak for that. Personally I think Philadelphia is coming into its own again and I think the national circuit is slowly starting to recognize that.

As for the roof height, I think it's a reasonable question and I've already stated why I think they chose to go with what they did.
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  #1998  
Old Posted May 18, 2015, 3:03 AM
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I'm not a native Philadelphian, but I remember my first trip to this city back in 1980. I entered Philly from the Walt Whitman Bridge and drove north on, I believe, 9th Street into Center City. I fell in love with Philadelphia that day and hoped that I could live here some day (I lived in Washington, D.C. at the time). Well, I've lived in Philly for 13-years now and I love this town more than ever.

I've been to every major city in this country and as far as I'm concerned, Philadelphia is the best. We have a total package that no other city can match--history, neighborhoods, architecture, visual/performing arts, monuments, museums, restaurants, libraries, great universities, parks, public transit, walkability, affordability and on and on and on....

When construction on City Hall began in 1871, Philadelphia was the wealthiest city in America because we were the largest industrial city in the Western Hemisphere. We are no longer that, but Philadelphia's population is finally growing again and we are in the midst of a tremendous construction boom with CITC as the center piece. The eyes of the world will be on this city when the Pope visits and when the Dems meet in Convention here in 2016. Philly will be ready and we're gonna look great!!
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  #1999  
Old Posted May 18, 2015, 1:48 PM
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Originally Posted by philatonian View Post
That avatar is epic, and I hate using that word.

Nothing wrong with being a realist. One of the best things I love about Philadelphia is it's reputation. It keeps out the phonies. People either get Philadelphia or they don't.

In my opinion, Philadelphia needs no defense and most Philadelphians don't even bother. We're too cool for school, we're smoking out back with the janitor. Chicks dig us 'cause we're bad ass and the cool kids can't stand us because we don't care what anyone thinks.

I've said plenty of choice things about Philadelphia myself - the litter, poverty, crime - but that doesn't mean I don't love this city. Questioning development doesn't make someone a Negadelphian, it means you've got a foot in the game. Blindly buying into an undeserved reputation is what licked the icing off the cake of Brooklyn. Philadelphia's real because people care enough to ask questions. Keep 'em coming.
Wrong, Philatonian - my avatar is almost epic, it falls just short of being so.

I kid

Yes I'm referring to Philadelphia's history of having bad luck. This town is obviously rebounding - I live in the Fishtown area and I LOVE it here, and the gentrification is clear as day pouring into Olde Kensington. It's awesome. Obviously happening in other parts of the city too.

Questioning the roof height of an over one billion dollar project is not unreasonable, nor is referring to our cities shortcomings (that don't "ALWAYS happen" jeez) "Negadelphian"
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  #2000  
Old Posted May 18, 2015, 3:06 PM
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Structural Engineering of CITC

Here is an article that talks about a number of structural engineering issues with CITC. An example is that the upper 13 floors(the Four Seasons Hotel) would in general be subjected to the most severe wings and stress(I think they design for at most 90 MPH sustained winds, or a CAT II hurricane). So there are diagonal steel braces(not the ones seen on the exterior that span every three floors) imbedded in the walls between the hotel rooms to further stiffen the frame. I hope this was not already posted.

http://www.philly.com/philly/busines..._the_rise.html
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