NEW YORK | 1715 Broadway | 751 FT / 229 M | 67 FLOORS

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Alliance

Eventually being the key word. Lets get financed before we start "rumbling"

All part of the "getting ready"...

[Loqy Lion]

Originally Posted by Alliance

Whats the short term? 5-10 years? 20? These are such vague terms you're using, especially this "global city" nonsense. I'd like to see which objective metrics you're using, but thats for pm.

Whats your point about price points? Price points don't mean development is going to happen, especially not a specific development. Its misguided to simplify the complex process that is building a tower to its units final price point. Those prices are in garunteed buildings, something even One57 isn't even yet (though I personally believe it will be). And just because one tower can take advantage of a market doesn't mean that 10 essentially identical towers within 10 blocks of each other can do the same. Supply relieves demand, last time I checked, and competition lowers prices.

Supertall residentials, or mixed use supertalls with residences, are not common. One has never been built in New York and there are only a few worldwide, outside of Dubai anyway. They don't just happen and I think its wrong to treat them like daisies, especially in a city like New York, with a large supply of all types of developments and a mature development environment.

So whats going on? If there really is a market for for these towers to get built, I bet only 1-2 of them will be built in the short term, say 5-10 years. I still question whether there really is a market, but that's another discussion I think could go either way. The developers are posturing, making sure they all have their own proposal to be in the headlines so that if one can be built, they're going to try and make sure its theirs. They're trying to attract investors back to a recovering real-estate market. But, no investor is going to come to a dormant project. So the developers play the press game and file meaningless permits to keep up the image that things are moving forward. But its all an attempt to secure financing. Because they're not going to be building if the project isn't financed. And there is only one of these big, high-end residential projects that is currently has something, forgive the pun, concrete.

I think a lot of the other, certainly more attractive, proposals have a better chance of being built than this one. But we'll see.

I'll remember to pull this up when I'm standing at the Top Of The Rock and looking at Tower Verre, One 57, The Drake, and 225 West 57th. Not to mention the others.

NYC went through the 40s-90s with few supertalls, especially considering it's widely regarded as the "City of the 20th Century." They're now catching up because it's turned into Monaco on the Hudson. Low crime, not as dirty, etc. 90s was a mess with regard to those things. Also, we are seeing a reversal of white flight.

This is the neo-30s.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by Loqy Lion

NYC went through the 40s-90s with few supertalls, especially considering it's widely regarded as the "City of the 20th Century." They're now catching up because it's turned into Monaco on the Hudson. Low crime, not as dirty, etc. 90s was a mess with regard to those things. Also, we are seeing a reversal of white flight.

This is the neo-30s.

I think the next decade will be the most dramatic change over the skyline yet. There were dramatic changes in the 30's, but the towers that will be built over the next decade will change not only the skyline, but our perception of it.

[Loqy Lion]

Originally Posted by NYguy

I think the next decade will be the most dramatic change over the skyline yet. There were dramatic changes in the 30's, but the towers that will be built over the next decade will change not only the skyline, but our perception of it.

Yep. I try to imagine it in sections.

All these buildings have very good chances of being built:

Downtown
One WTC, Two WTC, Three WTC, Four WTC, 99 Church, 56 Leonard, 50 West, 99 Washington, 111 Washington
Midtown
Tower Verre, One 57, The Drake, 225 West 57th, Marriott CP, 15 PP, 225 East 57th, IGT, 250 West 55th
West Side
20 TS, Two towers of Manhattan West, GiraSole, The Hudson Yards development


Dubai might be in trouble.

[John Q. Public]

For those wondering if Steve Cuozzo got it right in the New York Post yesterday, just check the city permit #120583145 for construction of Moinian's hotel. The original plan was for 39 floors, but now the permit says 27 floors with "33 dwelling units." This doesn't even make sense.

Although the construction permit has been granted, they have not posted plans for the supposed hotel (a violation), and he supposedly has a partner he is hiding? Why?

Something weird is going on...

[Alliance]

Originally Posted by Crawford

This is an odd opinion, IMO.

There is no difference between an apartment in a "supertall" by SSP terminology and a regular highrise apartment.

The local market is the local market. There aren't separate markets for buildings based on relative height.

Outside of the world of SSP, there's absolutely no difference between marketing a regular highrise apartment and marketing a supertall apartment.

Folks in the real world don't care about these distinctions. It's all just tall buildings, and doesn't really matter if 30, 50, or 70 floors. The issues are location, amenities, finishes, views, taxes, etc.

I should have been more clear. The supertall designation is indeed arbitrary and I didn't distinguish between that term and the multiple proposals for these very large, high-end residential towers in Midtown. Residential towers over 700 feet are in a pretty exclusive group, even in New York. I don't see how the public perception is relevant though. These developers are not trying to market themselves or their units to the general public, but instead to investors and wealthy buyers.

I think in some sense there are different markets for types of units, but within Midtown certainly there is less of a distinction because everything is to some degree tall. The quality of the units and the price points may be similar in a building of any height, its just the sheer volume. Building and financing a 30 story tower is a lot more complex than a 70 story one, and there are a lot more units to move too. Its the feasibility of the project that I'm referring too, especially in the context of a lot of similar/identical competition.

[NYguy]

^ You're going on about nothing. Just sit back and watch.

Originally Posted by Loqy Lion

Dubai might be in trouble.

Doubtful, but that has nothing to do with what's being built here. New York is a well established city. To have as many skyline altering developments as it has is amazing enough.

[RobertWalpole]

The design seems to have changed a little.



http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/10/re...1&ref=business

Square Feet
Two Marriott Brands Are to Share Space in Manhattan Tower
By JANE L. LEVERE
Published: August 10, 2011

Construction will start soon on one of New York’s largest hotel projects, a 68-story high-rise at the northwest corner of Broadway and 54th Street with more than 600 rooms, according to officials of Granite Broadway Development and Marriott International.

The new Courtyard and Residence Inn hotels are expected to open in late 2013.

In addition to two hotels, a 68-story high-rise at Broadway and 54th Street would house a restaurant and ground-floor shops.
The project, in the works for at least a decade, will include a 378-room Courtyard by Marriott hotel and a 261-room Residence Inn by Marriott hotel, to be known as the Courtyard and Residence Inn Manhattan/Central Park.

[NYguy]

Reminds me of the Time Warner Center.

[599GTO]

Thank God! The previous design was hideous!!

[Crawford]

Height should probably be changed to 753 ft.

NY Times article lists it at 753 ft.

And, yeah, obviously much better design.

[John Q. Public]

Here's what Steve Cuozzo reported in the NY Post on Tuesday:

In the ongoing colorful saga of Joseph Moinian's hotel project at 237 W. 54th St., he's scaled down his plan from 34 stories to 27, according to filings with the Buildings Dept.
So modest a project wouldn't ordinarily merit much attention. But this one occupies a crucial location on a block where two enormous new buildings are already under way: Harry Gross' 67-story Marriott hotel at the corner of Broadway and West 54th Street, and Boston Properties' 900,000 square foot office tower at 250 W. 55th St.
Moinian demolished the small vacant building at 237 W. 54th to make room for his as yet unnamed hotel. That made nervous wrecks out of residents of 245 W. 54th St., the four-story rental apartment building next door that's also owned by Moinian.
The tiny structure they call home is sandwiched between Moinian's hotel site to the east -- itself next to the Marriott under full-bore construction -- and Boston's giant L-shaped tower to the north and west, soon to start above-ground work.
Tenants fear that an accident at Moinian's or Boston's work site could render their 100-year-old building uninhabitable. A recent small fire at 237 as it was being razed fueled their concerns.
This week, paranoia struck deeper when their superintendent moved out and the soup restaurant on the ground floor closed. Moinian declined to comment, citing a confidentiality agreement with an unidentified partner.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...#ixzz1UeTzdIrm

So Moinian claims to have a secret partner (presumably an operator) with whom to build a 27-story hotel directly next to this Marriott. His only New York partners before this are Ramada and a downtown W. I can't imagine who would want to have parallel entrances on West 54th Street.

[Dylan Leblanc]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Height should probably be changed to 753 ft.

NY Times article lists it at 753 ft.

And, yeah, obviously much better design.

We should leave the height. The article says that the height is "expected to reach almost 753 feet" so the height of 751 feet that we have is probalbly correct.

[SkyscrapersOfNewYork]

wow sleek...i like it!

[JACKinBeantown]

Yeah, another blue glass building. How original.

[scalziand]

The balconies are nice, but that's about it.

[KevinFromTexas]

I liked the old design more. It had more texture and the top was more interesting than this latest rendering suggests. The design in the latest rendering seems to be more conceptual and less finalized than the other one. And the base seems downright odd and non-compatible with the rest of the building.

The lack of texture and facade details have really been something that has turned me off to modern skyscraper architecture. Otherwise the design is ok, but that sleek modern look only fits a certain shape of building.

I don't know, maybe I'm just being picky.

[NYC2ATX]

Originally Posted by JACKinNYC

Yeah, another blue glass building. How original.

seriously. I'm disgusted by this redesign, they took a quirky, unique tower that would've brought something different to the already varied and unique New York skyline, and made it just cookie-cutter crapola. I don't even understand why it was changed, there was no need to. Thank god it's not that tall and other buildings will overshadow it.

[NYguy]

^ I won't complain. We could be looking at another two years of nothing getting built.


http://finchannel.com/news_flash/Tra...Tallest_Hotel/

Marriott International, Inc. and ownership group Granite Broadway Development announced today a signed franchise agreement to develop the Courtyard and Residence Inn Manhattan/Central Park, a soaring, new 68-story property housing two distinctly different hotels – the 378-room Courtyard by Marriott hotel and the 261-room Residence Inn by Marriott hotel -- at 1717 Broadway (at 54th Street).

Designed by architect Nobutaka Ashihara, the building will rise 752 feet, nine inches high, making it the tallest stand-alone hotel building (without office or residential space) in New York.

[Loqy Lion]

Hey, a 753-footer in Midtown is always welcome! I love it. It's taller than the TWC.

Just imagine in the next couple of years: This, 250 W, IGT, Drake, Verre, One57, 225 W 57th, and that's just midtown. We are blessed to live in the times of such a great city!