Urban cats: in or out?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It really depends on your urban situation though. I've got a nicely forested double lot with lots of foliage for the cat to hide under and explore. It makes the decision a lot easier.

If I had a downtown urban postage stamp lot and traffic mortality were a real possibility, I might feel differently about it.

Incidentally, the places where I've seen the highest density of outdoor cats roaming the streets have been in the leafy residential back streets of inner city Toronto and Montreal. Traffic is a greater concern, but predators less (though to be fair, faster-moving suburban traffic probably isn't any better).

My outdoor cat lived a nice long 19 years - and survived a fox attack, multiple multi-day "excursions", and countless cat fights with the other neighbourhood cats. Once they start getting up there in age they'll become less adventurous and start staying home more anyway.

[harryc]

I'm all for a healthy suburban ecology.

Cats keep our rabbits faster and the coyotes fatter.

[Architype]

A collar with a bell will prevent them from catching birds, etc., but it might also make them more vulnerable to prey.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Cute/sadistic cat fact: they're not trophies. Your cats have noticed you're a pretty shitty hunter and are trying to teach you how to do it. Apparently, that's why they bring animals to their owners, and also why the animals are often still partially alive.

Ah, I never thought of it like that. A magnanimous gesture on their part, eh?

Originally Posted by Architype

A collar with a bell will prevent them from catching birds, etc., but it might also make them more vulnerable to prey.

We had little jangly bells on the collars of our previous cats, along with tags giving their names and our phone number. Our new cats have microchips under their skin with our names on them, so we're not even sure what we're going to do about collars. At present we've got pheromone collars on them try to help them get along, as they're not from the same litter (not sure if they're actually working or not, but in the month we've had them they've slowly started to get along better).

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm well aware of the risks of letting your cats roam, but I think it's bad for a cat's mental health to be confined all the time.

Agree. When I first exposed my rescue to the outdoors it was obvious that she'd never seen, smelled, or step foot on grass in her life. She was noticeably distraught and ran inside about 10 times in a row.

I took her for a walk in a harness and leash a few weeks later and after 5-6 minutes a change came over her. I'd never seen her so happy. She just looked throughly delighted and at peace with the world.

It's not normal to deny cats nature. Yes there are dangers out there but even in my condo I make an effort to take her outside. That said, I am training her to do something quite unnatural for a cat: she's on day 9 of her training to use a human toilet. So far so good. 'Rolo' will be graduating to the orange ring being used by this kitty on Sunday.


Courtesy of kihow

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Cute/sadistic cat fact: they're not trophies. Your cats have noticed you're a pretty shitty hunter and are trying to teach you how to do it. Apparently, that's why they bring animals to their owners, and also why the animals are often still partially alive.

Well, mine would be extremely ungrateful if they ever did that, considering which "successful hunter" in this house is the one always providing / putting food on their table!!

(BTW, you're correct - I had heard that as well.)

[vid]

I took in a stray 9 years ago, we can't keep him inside. He won't accept it. That's the one downside to taking in ourdoor strays, they don't acclimatize well to being indoor pets.

We keep him up to date with rabies vaccines and give him food when he can't find his own (which is becoming more and more common as he gets old), and aside from a few bouts where he has gone missing for a few days at a time (once last winter while it was -35 for a couple days and we were certain that he had frozen to death somewhere) he's always come back.

[speedog]

Ours are indoor cars, far too many urban coyotes and bobcats in Calgary not to mention fox and occasionally black bears and cougars. Raccoons are becoming more common as well but I don't know if they're a threat to domesticated cats.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by speedog

Ours are indoor cars, far too many urban coyotes and bobcats in Calgary not to mention fox and occasionally black bears and cougars. Raccoons are becoming more common as well but I don't know if they're a threat to domesticated cats.

Calgary also has a cat bylaw. Cats can be outside, but can’t wonder from your yard. Obviously cats are skilled escape artists. Don’t most municipalities have similar bylaws?

I knew of several cats in Calgary willed by birds: owls, eagles and especially hawks. I saw a hawk take out two kittens from a neighboring yard.

[suburbanite]

Only had dogs growing up but my sister has a cat that lives with her at my parents place now. Domestic "free-range" cats do wreak havoc on local songbird populations and my sister is an avid conservationist so she compromises by putting the cat on a 30 foot lead in the backyard. I don't think I've ever seen it even leave the bushes just beside the patio which are probably only 10 feet away. He seems content to sit there and try to chew on grass if no one catches him so I guess the arrangement works for both of them.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Doug

Calgary also has a cat bylaw. Cats can be outside, but can’t wonder from your yard. Obviously cats are skilled escape artists. Don’t most municipalities have similar bylaws?

I knew of several cats in Calgary willed by birds: owls, eagles and especially hawks. I saw a hawk take out two kittens from a neighboring yard.

As long as the cats understand the bylaws, I can't see any problem.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Architype

As long as the cats understand the bylaws, I can't see any problem.

Would think cat bylaws are incredibly tough to enforce

[SpongeG]

Racoons can beat up cats pretty bad, plus they often have rabies and can give your cat rabies.

[Blader]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Racoons can beat up cats pretty bad, plus they often have rabies and can give your cat rabies.

it's unlikely, and that's the measure. The incidence is tiny even among feral cats in the US.
That said, I've seen a rabid opossum north of Lauderdale. The foxes were fine. And the domestic pets were fine as well.

[vid]

My city doesn't have raccoons, but we do have skunks. My cat's never gotten sprayed by one but he's interacted with them before.

[ColdGarden]

Originally Posted by lio45

"well, of course the inside of a jail cell is the safest place possible."

Have to agree. Keeping cats indoors for their entire existence seems strange and unusual punishment. Don't even get a cat in that case. Sure, a cat could be killed or maimed by being in the real world, but so can you. Would you prefer to be indoors for your entire existence, only starting out of windows at actual sunshine and fresh air?

It brings to mind the 2015 "Room" movie. The kid was happy enough growing up in his little room, and really it was very safe for him, but does anyone think his life is equivalent to the added experience of actually going outdoors, and perhaps being killed out there? Why would it be any different for any other living creature which has evolved over thousands of years to want/need/love sunshine and the outdoors?

[Blader]

Originally Posted by ColdGarden

Have to agree. Keeping cats indoors for their entire existence seems strange and unusual punishment. Don't even get a cat in that case. Sure, a cat could be killed or maimed by being in the real world, but so can you. Would you prefer to be indoors for your entire existence, only starting out of windows at actual sunshine and fresh air?

It brings to mind the 2015 "Room" movie. The kid was happy enough growing up in his little room, and really it was very safe for him, but does anyone think his life is equivalent to the added experience of actually going outdoors, and perhaps being killed out there? Why would it be any different for any other living creature which has evolved over thousands of years to want/need/love sunshine and the outdoors?

Boy this is getting philosophical - we've gone back in time to Plato's ´Allegory of the cave´.

[rousseau]

Well, today I put the harness leashes on them to give them a taste of the great outdoors. One at a time. But after just a few minutes of timid sniffing around on the back deck and in the yard they both made a beeline back to the door. They really seemed unnerved by the experience.

Could this be a sign that they're going to be satisfied staying inside after all? We'll see. They were both rescued from a rundown farm where they were living outside on their own, so maybe it wouldn't be surprising for them to prefer the comfort and security of the house that they now call home.

Then again, how they'll feel about this once it gets really warm and our windows are open all the time remains to be seen.

[isaidso]

At least you're giving it a try. Btw, my cat seems to only like outside when it's warmer. In the summer she wants to stay out there a long time. In winter she'll sniff the outside standing by the door but not go out.

[Gresto]

Keep inside, only because they kill an extraordinary amount of wildlife.