Elgin Street Renewal

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

2 moving lanes and one parking lane is enough.
If you regularly get stuck there because you choose to drive from Orleans (and Kanata?) into Downtown during peak hours then you are doing it wrong and the city shouldn't cater to your selfish last century habits.

I would like to see them get rid of all of the parking. Elgin is one of the few main streets that doesn't have a BIA and BIA's fight like rabid dogs for parking, so this is a golden opportunity try a parking-free main street (like most of the world).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's an argument for better pole placement.

When possible, yes. On many streets (like much of Elgin), the only other option is to put them on the road. You and I both know that will never happen.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

When possible, yes. On many streets (like much of Elgin), the only other option is to put them on the road. You and I both know that will never happen.

Or down the back of the lot.

Either way - I had to resort to Google Maps to make my quip about Elgin, as I simply couldn't remember how wireful or wireless that area of town is, even though I walk Elgin probably three to four weekdays out of five.

The wires are not a problem.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

2 moving lanes and one parking lane is enough.
If you regularly get stuck there because you choose to drive from Orleans (and Kanata?) into Downtown during peak hours then you are doing it wrong and the city shouldn't cater to your selfish last century habits.

I don't drive from Orleans or Kanata, or into downtown, not in peak hours, in offpeak hours, or any other hours. I haven't driven any kind of on-road vehicle since about, mwuh? 1995?

My only selfishness is in ensuring there's enough vehicular laneage left for safe and EFFICIENT movement of transit vehicles on that, and all other, main streets.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

I don't drive from Orleans or Kanata, or into downtown, not in peak hours, in offpeak hours, or any other hours. I haven't driven any kind of on-road vehicle since about, mwuh? 1995?

My only selfishness is in ensuring there's enough vehicular laneage left for safe and EFFICIENT movement of transit vehicles on that, and all other, main streets.

I was using "you" in 3rd person.

Interesting that you are so against building transit into suburbs but don't mind at all subsidizing suburbanites' driving habits.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's an argument for better pole placement.



Freezing rain can cause issues for all kinds of stuff.



Indeed. And the cost is yet another reason why we should worry about - and spend money on - the things that really matter from an aesthetic and functional perspective, not the imaginary blight of wires.

Every. Single. One. Of Ottawa's. Visually. Best. Neighbourhoods. Has. Overhead. Wires.

All of them.

I agree that wires are not the most pressing issue, but they most definitely are ugly. In Ottawa or in any other city.

Toronto (referenced on an earlier page) may not be a "frontier town" but its wires (compounded on some streets by the streetcar wires) and old poles all over the place are often mentioned by Torontonians and visitors alike as one of the reasons it's not a very aesthetically pleasing city.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I would like to see them get rid of all of the parking. Elgin is one of the few main streets that doesn't have a BIA and BIA's fight like rabid dogs for parking, so this is a golden opportunity try a parking-free main street (like most of the world).

It's not really that hard to find (often free) on-street parking on any number of streets off of Elgin on evenings and weekends. It's touchier to the east in the Golden Triangle area which is more constrained, but if you go west towards Metcalfe it's fairly easy to find spots even on a Saturday afternoon or evening.

People just don't want to walk a couple of blocks.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Acajack

People just don't want to walk a couple of blocks.

Or retailers are afraid that people won't want to walk a couple blocks. Even if there is parking in front of the business you are wanting to visit, the odds of it being vacant when you want to park is slim to none, so you are pretty much guaranteed to have to walk.

On a separate note. I seem to remember hearing that they want you to be able to pay for parking with Presto. If that ever did come about, they should make your parking fee turn into a temporary bus pass while you are parked to encourage people to park once and take the bus to get around town.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's not really that hard to find (often free) on-street parking on any number of streets off of Elgin on evenings and weekends. It's touchier to the east in the Golden Triangle area which is more constrained, but if you go west towards Metcalfe it's fairly easy to find spots even on a Saturday afternoon or evening.

People just don't want to walk a couple of blocks.

I've asked this question on other threads, but the likelihood of actually finding on street parking on Elgin (or other main streets) at a busy time is pretty low. So do people drive all the way to Elgin and then drive away if they can't find parking on Elgin itself?

"Well, I wanted to eat at El Camino, but the parking space out front was full, so I went to East Side Marios instead"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I've asked this question on other threads, but the likelihood of actually finding on street parking on Elgin (or other main streets) at a busy time is pretty low. So do people drive all the way to Elgin and then drive away if they can't find parking on Elgin itself?

"Well, I wanted to eat at El Camino, but the parking space out front was full, so I went to East Side Marios instead"

East Side Mario's at St. Laurent?

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I've asked this question on other threads, but the likelihood of actually finding on street parking on Elgin (or other main streets) at a busy time is pretty low. So do people drive all the way to Elgin and then drive away if they can't find parking on Elgin itself?

I suppose the risk is once parking on Elgin is removed... some people might say, "well they removed all that parking.. we'll never get a spot.. lets avoid Elgin entirely".

.... but for the record I fully support the "remove parking on Elgin" experiment.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

East Side Mario's at St. Laurent?

Lots of parking.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Lots of parking.

Although, walking from the outer row of the parking at St. Laurent along Coventry to the East Side Mario's, is about the same distance as walking from Metcalfe St. to the El Camino on Elgin.

People don't realize how much walking they often have to do in mall parking lots. And we know how pleasant they are to walk through.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Although, walking from the outer row of the parking at St. Laurent along Coventry to the East Side Mario's, is about the same distance as walking from Metcalfe St. to the El Camino on Elgin.

People don't realize how much walking they often have to do in mall parking lots. And we know how pleasant they are to walk through.

But people willing to walk hundreds of metres to parking at costco are allegedly put off by walking 50-60 metres to park on a side street.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But people willing to walk hundreds of metres to parking at costco are allegedly put off by walking 50-60 metres to park on a side street.

We're seeing the same things you and I.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

I was using "you" in 3rd person.

Interesting that you are so against building transit into suburbs but don't mind at all subsidizing suburbanites' driving habits.

In what possible way am I interested in subsidizing suburbanites' driving habits?

You realize that leaving Elgin able to handle the modest amount of traffic it does, is mostly about an important public benefit to the actual residents of that neighbourhood? People in Orleans don't care one way or the other.

[1overcosc]

Removing parking on Elgin would actually speed up traffic because there would no longer be any people slowing down traffic by pulling into and out of spots.

I'd say the narrow sidewalks are hurting businesses more than the two lanes of parking is helping them.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Removing parking on Elgin would actually speed up traffic because there would no longer be any people slowing down traffic by pulling into and out of spots.

I'd say the narrow sidewalks are hurting businesses more than the two lanes of parking is helping them.

I thought the "vision" was to remove parking and widen the sidewalks on Elgin?

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by acottawa

But people willing to walk hundreds of metres to parking at costco are allegedly put off by walking 50-60 metres to park on a side street.

As a species, human beings are not known for being especially logical.

You're right though.

[waterloowarrior]

Transportation Elgin Street and Hawthorne Avenue Functional Design Study
Elgin Street and Hawthorne Avenue Functional Design Study
http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public...ctional-design

Public Open House - January 11, 2017
Wednesday January 11, 2017
City Hall, 110 Laurier Avenue West, Council Chambers and Jean Pigott Place
5 to 7:30 p.m., presentation at 5:30 p.m.

Space is limited, so please register by Friday, January 6.

You are invited to attend a public open house for the Elgin Street and Hawthorne Avenue Functional Design Study. The presentation will begin promptly at 5:30 p.m., so please arrive at 5 p.m. to sign in.

Agenda

Welcome and introductions
Presentation
Brief question and answer period
Open house
By attending, you will have the opportunity to learn more about the project, review the draft design for the corridor and provide feedback. Your feedback will assist the City in finalizing the draft design, which will be presented to Transportation Committee and City Council in 2017. The detailed design process will begin following Council approval.

Highlights of the draft design for Elgin Street include:

Wider sidewalks on both sides of the street
Reduced number of travel lanes and enhanced street edge activity (pedestrians, parking, trees, bike racks, etc.) to help calm traffic
Flexibility to retain on-street parking and loading spaces on at least one side the street in most blocks
Flexibility to program parking / loading spaces for pedestrian use, outdoor patios or streetside spots
Improved bus stop waiting areas
General strategies to manage construction period disruption
The draft design for Hawthorne Avenue includes:

Wider sidewalks on both sides of the street
Introduction of a westbound cycling facility (works in tandem with existing eastbound bike lane on Graham Avenue)
Maintaining some on-street parking on the south side of the streetAccessibility is an important consideration for the City of Ottawa