Where should we buy a house considering we have some pretty specific wants/needs...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

While it is well-served by French public schools, and has easy transit to downtown, I left the Vanier/Beechwood area off my original list because it's not near a University. That said, I'm sure there are plenty of prospective tenants in the area. Your purchase price would be lower here (on the south side of Beechwood) though your rents would likely be lower too. It's a different story on the north side of Beechwood, where everything is more expensive. The school in this area is:

École élémentaire publique Trille des Bois
140, rue Genest
Ottawa, ON K1L 7Y9


And a little further south, towards Overbrook, you'll find:

École élémentaire publique Le Trillium
307, rue Montgomery
Ottawa, ON K1L 7W8

Justin Trudeau's kids go to Trille des Bois.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The gaps in quality are actually caused by the OCDSB's unfortunate habit of effectively tiering schools by creating a huge number of special program streams; ie. parents use pretty much any reason--gifted, French immersion, good at art, etc.--to get their kids out of their local schools and into "special" schools like Lisgar, Canterbury, etc. which degrades the quality of education at the local schools by taking all the good kids out of them. I'm very much hoping that as part of the OCDSB's boundary review process it's now doing, it gets rid of a lot of this unnecessary streaming and cuts down on kids going to school out-of-boundary.

The Catholic board and the French boards do a lot less streaming, so the school qualities are more consistent.

That's interesting. I've never heard this.

There is a hierarchization of schools that is done by francophone parents as well. As with English schools, it's related to both socio-economics and even racial issues to some degree. Schools that have too many immigrants get a bad "rep" from some parents, for example.

That Trille des Bois school is a Waldorf program school and is attended by lots of kids who live in New Edinburgh and other tony areas around there.

The one on Montgomery is less well-regarded, as are most of the schools in the Vanier-Overbrook.

You have to go quite a bit further east (to École Montfort, near Aviation Parkway and Montreal Rd.) to find a francophone school with a good "rep".

Francojeunesse, mentioned in the OP, has a pretty decent rep.

Sainte-Anne, which is a Catholic school on the north side of Rideau St. (Francojeunesse is south of Rideau) doesn't have as good a rep.

None of this is necessarily fact-based. Just repeating the word of the street.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is something of a difference between north of Beechwood (New Edinburgh) and south of Beechwood (Vanier).

Vanier just south of Beechwood has been getting bought up for quite a while now. It's not your gramma's Vanier any more...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Vanier just south of Beechwood has been getting bought up for quite a while now. It's not your gramma's Vanier any more...

The housing stock is still crap. I don't understand why there haven't been more tear downs in the area immediately behind Beechwood.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Vanier just south of Beechwood has been getting bought up for quite a while now. It's not your gramma's Vanier any more...

Neither of my mémères ever lived in Vanier , but I do go there every once in a while.

I'd say the area is still only in the early stages of gentrification, which is very surprising given how posh the other side of Beechwood has been for several decades now.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The housing stock is still crap. I don't understand why there haven't been more tear downs in the area immediately behind Beechwood.

It's actually of much the same age and construction as the area immediately north of Beechwood. You'd be surprised.

And there have been a TON of replacements and major renos in the area in the past few years.

[Addy]

Thanks again everyone. We have been driving through the neighbourhoods every chance we get to Ottawa, and so far I really do like the Sandy Hill neighbourhood. The larger houses are out of our price range (and most look like student housing that hasn't been well cared for by the landlords over the years anyway), but some of the smaller homes or side by sides (such as 454 or 456 Nelson for sale right now) seem decent enough, and priced well enough I won't have to scramble to find work right away.

I've worked in post secondary admin positions in the past so I'm hoping to eventually pick something up at the University, which would be so close by I could walk, but I'm not bilingual which seems to be a huge thing according to their employment listings. I would love to speak with anyone who works there who could fill me in if this is indeed a big deal or not.

There's a lovely park and community centre right by at the Sandy Hill park, which is great for my children. I am curious what shopping is in the Sandy Hill area, if I want to be able to walk to and from the grocery store?

Thanks so much everyone for your input, we aren't sold 100% on Sandy Hill, but it seems an ideal neighbourhood so far for our needs.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by Addy

Thanks again everyone. We have been driving through the neighbourhoods every chance we get to Ottawa, and so far I really do like the Sandy Hill neighbourhood. The larger houses are out of our price range (and most look like student housing that hasn't been well cared for by the landlords over the years anyway), but some of the smaller homes or side by sides (such as 454 or 456 Nelson for sale right now) seem decent enough, and priced well enough I won't have to scramble to find work right away.

I've worked in post secondary admin positions in the past so I'm hoping to eventually pick something up at the University, which would be so close by I could walk, but I'm not bilingual which seems to be a huge thing according to their employment listings. I would love to speak with anyone who works there who could fill me in if this is indeed a big deal or not.

There's a lovely park and community centre right by at the Sandy Hill park, which is great for my children. I am curious what shopping is in the Sandy Hill area, if I want to be able to walk to and from the grocery store?

Thanks so much everyone for your input, we aren't sold 100% on Sandy Hill, but it seems an ideal neighbourhood so far for our needs.

There is a large Loblaws grocery store 7 1/2 blocks north of 456 Nelson, at the corner of Nelson and Rideau Street. 2 blocks west of that is an LCBO and a Metro. These might be a longish walk, though, if you're laden down with a lot of grocery bags.

[1overcosc]

^ I used to live at 280 Laurier, about half the distance to that Loblaws, and I generally found that towards the very end of the walk home I started to get tired. Going all the way down to 456 Nelson may be too much.

That said, if you're just buying a few things, it's not bad at all. Call it an excuse to start doing a larger number of smaller grocery trips (which I started doing a few months ago, and it's so much less stressful).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Addy

I've worked in post secondary admin positions in the past so I'm hoping to eventually pick something up at the University, which would be so close by I could walk, but I'm not bilingual which seems to be a huge thing according to their employment listings. I would love to speak with anyone who works there who could fill me in if this is indeed a big deal or not.


.

I don't work there but know several people who do.

The University of Ottawa's student body is 70% anglophone and 30% francophone these days but the administrative functions there are a throwback to another era when francophones were the majority of students.

Basically, the university administration functions quite predominantly in French with mostly francophone staff who have a high bilingual capacity. There are of course anglophones who work there but those who do have a very high level of bilingualism: ability to participate in meetings in French, write emails in French, write and comment on documents in French.

My guess is that anglophones who work or want to work at the University of Ottawa are held to a higher bilingualism standard than they are in the federal government.

There are some grumblings about this given the demographics of the university, but I don't think any significant change is really in the works at any time in the foreseeable future.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There are some grumblings about this given the demographics of the university, but I don't think any significant change is really in the works at any time in the foreseeable future.

There's a surprising number of complaints from anglophone students about U of O being "too French"--stories of many courses having more French sections than English ones, university communications that are only in French or the English translation sucks, etc. I don't know if there's any truth to that or if it's just more angryphone rambling, but when I was in high school in the Ottawa area, almost everyone in my graduating class who was going to university picked a university in another city as their first choice (many ended up going to Carleton anyway as they rejected at their first choice picks), with the standard line for that being "U of O is French and Carleton sucks." I'd be curious to find out if that is a common thought process among many Ottawa high school graduates and if that does result in us having lower retention of secondary school graduates than other cities.

[kwoldtimer]

UofO's reputation has grown considerably over the past couple of decades, no?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

UofO's reputation has grown considerably over the past couple of decades, no?

I would say so. It's a fairly prestigious university in the Canadian context I'd say. Not up there with the McGills and UofTs, but definitely in the very strong second tier ones.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

There's a surprising number of complaints from anglophone students about U of O being "too French"--stories of many courses having more French sections than English ones, university communications that are only in French or the English translation sucks, etc. I don't know if there's any truth to that or if it's just more angryphone rambling, but when I was in high school in the Ottawa area, almost everyone in my graduating class who was going to university picked a university in another city as their first choice (many ended up going to Carleton anyway as they rejected at their first choice picks), with the standard line for that being "U of O is French and Carleton sucks." I'd be curious to find out if that is a common thought process among many Ottawa high school graduates and if that does result in us having lower retention of secondary school graduates than other cities.

I've heard some of this too. Also complaints about not being able to get a job on campus if you're not "French" (sic).

The UofO has tried to counter, even going so far as to compel its staff (most of whom are francophones I guess ) from speaking French among themselves at kiosks during tours that they do of anglophone Ontario high schools. This rule was quite controversial - not sure if it lasted.

What's interesting is that francophones are dissatisfied too. I am pretty sure course selections are significantly more abundant in English in almost all programs. My wife did all of her degrees there and in two programs it was billed as being a French program, but as you progressed in later years courses in English were imposed (often at the last minute, with the justification that "all francophones know English anyway"). This was quite stressful and complicated for some of her fellow students from Quebec and other francophonie countries who were often unilingual and had come to the UofO expecting to do all of their studies in French - as promised. I know this for a fact as my wife spent many a night helping them muddle through class stuff in English.

Extracurricular activities like frosh week, sports, etc. are almost all in English as well at the UofO.

I am probably biased as I think Franco-Ontarians should have their own university. Like they did with Algonquin and Cité collégiale back in the day. But I don't live in Ontario so it's not my battle. But from the sounds of it both anglophones and francophones would be happier if it were to materialize.

[Acajack]

Of course the UofO "brass" is in cahoots with a large portion of the Franco-Ontarian leadership (there is a significant overlap between the two in fact), so they will fight the Franco-Ontarian university project tooth and nail as it challenges their status quo. They've always fought it.

[kwoldtimer]

Whatever happened to the idea that UofO might set up a satellite campus in SWOntario?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Whatever happened to the idea that UofO might set up a satellite campus in SWOntario?

It exists. It's mostly a teachers' college aimed at training francophone teachers for SW Ontario. I guess they have a shortage of French teachers down there.

It's in Windsor.

The Government of Ontario has also approved in principle the idea of a new Franco-Ontarian university. (Which the community's leadership has ridiculously IMO said it wants to build in Toronto - "to boldly go where no Franco-Ontarian has gone before", I guess).

But now the government has backtracked and said if it happens it won't be a bricks and mortar university, but rather a virtual one of some kind.

Of course the UofO is likely fighting all of this in the backrooms.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

What's interesting is that francophones are dissatisfied too. I am pretty sure course selections are significantly more abundant in English in almost all programs. My wife did all of her degrees there and in two programs it was billed as being a French program, but as you progressed in later years courses in English were imposed (often at the last minute, with the justification that "all francophones know English anyway"). This was quite stressful and complicated for some of her fellow students from Quebec and other francophonie countries who were often unilingual and had come to the UofO expecting to do all of their studies in French - as promised. I know this for a fact as my wife spent many a night helping them muddle through class stuff in English.

Extracurricular activities like frosh week, sports, etc. are almost all in English as well at the UofO.

That sounds more or less like what I expected; a lot of the criticism from the "too French" crowd sounded like typical "angryphone" ramblings. Glad to see my suspicious were correct.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I would say so. It's a fairly prestigious university in the Canadian context I'd say. Not up there with the McGills and UofTs, but definitely in the very strong second tier ones.

The supposed "top-tier" Old Four schools--McGill, U of T, Queen's, and Western--are actually not that far above the average. In fact, in many ways, those four schools have actually faded a bit, as they've ridden their reputations to success instead of having to work for it, like Waterloo or U of O have.

Nonetheless, the Old Four will always have a special place at the top of the prestige charts, due to their age, history, and most importantly, their very involved community of wealthy alumni.

Here in Kingston, it's almost insane watching just how many insanely expensive capital projects on Queen's campus move forward so quickly from alumni donations.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That sounds more or less like what I expected; a lot of the criticism from the "too French" crowd sounded like typical "angryphone" ramblings. Glad to see my suspicious were correct.

That's surprising that you'd report that, given where you grew up. I would have thought bilingualism and the presence of francophones would have been no big deal to anglo kids in Russell-Embrun.