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View Poll Results: What do you think of the design?
I love it! 156 44.70%
It's good. 134 38.40%
I don't like it. 28 8.02%
Nuke it from Orbit (waste of taxpayers dollars) 31 8.88%
Voters: 349. You may not vote on this poll

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  #401  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2009, 3:19 PM
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Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary View Post
Ultimately, this is the reason why architects aren't even looked at by 'regular' people to build, say a house - the perception that the costs are going to be that much higher.

Modernism started, and continues to be in Europe, influenced by a notion of social responsibility. Its no surprise that many great architects and architecture produce things like social housing - which must be cost effective.

Low budget doesn't have to mean bad projects, nor should it. That's simply laziness on the part of the designer. Or lack of aspiration in the partners.

The role of the architect isn't merely to build; its also to convince clients that their conception is actually worth the additional costs (either large or small)...the firms that have global recognition and projects aren't simply talented designers - they also have an underlying philosophy about architecture's place in the world and are able to convince clients to come to that same world view.

Though I understand your point about there being no reason why someone in Calgary shouldn't be as good as Calatrava, but this goes back to my point about creating a culture of design. It feeds off itself. It challenges people to do better work. If you live in a city that demands great projects, then you have to raise your game.

thanks Fiveway! That's part of the point for sure

I understand your point, and I agree completely about the design culture. I just hope with the level of design improving greatly in Calgary, that Architects sell their ideas a little harder and the public demands better design, and that the people paying for the project actually realize the value of good design.
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  #402  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:00 AM
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The architechts get the fees, but if the building, or in this case the bridge falls down, the structural engineer get's a lawsuit against him!
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  #403  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bob1954 View Post
The architechts get the fees, but if the building, or in this case the bridge falls down, the structural engineer get's a lawsuit against him!
Not sure what you're getting at with this post, or most of your other posts for that matter. Also, what's with the exclamation marks? I've never put anyone on my ignore list, even Corndogger, but I find it that annoying that you might be the first. If your keyboard is missing all other punctuation keys, I'd be happy to buy you a new one. I don't intend to sound mean or anything, and if English is your second language or something, I apologize as you seem fairly good-natured. I can't be the only one this annoys though.

Anyway, as to the topic of your post, I'm not sure if you knew that Calatrava is both a structural engineer and an architect, and that his firm filled both roles in the design of this bridge.
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  #404  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 8:22 AM
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The Sun is manufacturing news again.

Headline: "BANFF BARGAIN". They're building a footbridge for $2m, as opposed to our $24.5m bridge. Let's do the math, shall we?
Following his logic I guess we should have gotten Foster + Partners to design and build Confederation Bridge. This fancy British architect built the Millau Viaduct for under $620M yet we had to pay some local chap $1.3B for the Confederation Bridge! Absolutely unbelievable,it is time to vote out these fools!
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  #405  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 5:10 PM
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I'm really actually kind of embarrassed for the Sun. Things must be really rough in the world of pulp and print for them to headline a paper with such blatent hyperbole.

I feel sorry for anyone who works for the paper. It must be tough to go to work in the morning.
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  #406  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:29 PM
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The cable stayed Prince's Island Pedestrian Bridge over the Bow River was built in the early 1970s for about $750,000. & won an award from the American Iron & Steel Institute, guess the City should have built more ped bridges then when they were cheap & saved the uproar (and money) now...
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  #407  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 6:56 PM
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The cable stayed Prince's Island Pedestrian Bridge over the Bow River was built in the early 1970s for about $750,000. & won an award from the American Iron & Steel Institute, guess the City should have built more ped bridges then when they were cheap & saved the uproar (and money) now...
Accounting for inflation, that could be in the $4,000,000 range today. In the early 1970s Calgary's population was just over a third of what it is today. Gives me a $12,000,000 bridge.

Add in the fact that Costs in Calgary have far outpaced general inflation, and the fact (that everyone especially the Sun misses) that this bridge will have NO piers in the water...

Oh, and it's a lot nicer looking than yet another brown and beige wonder.
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  #408  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 7:24 PM
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Not sure what you're getting at with this post, or most of your other posts for that matter. Also, what's with the exclamation marks? I've never put anyone on my ignore list, even Corndogger, but I find it that annoying that you might be the first. If your keyboard is missing all other punctuation keys, I'd be happy to buy you a new one. I don't intend to sound mean or anything, and if English is your second language or something, I apologize as you seem fairly good-natured. I can't be the only one this annoys though.

Anyway, as to the topic of your post, I'm not sure if you knew that Calatrava is both a structural engineer and an architect, and that his firm filled both roles in the design of this bridge.
This post seems a little harsh.
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  #409  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 7:26 PM
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The architechts get the fees, but if the building, or in this case the bridge falls down, the structural engineer get's a lawsuit against him!
This is a fairly strange post.
The Engineer gets fees as well, if they didn't they wouldn't be in business, although in this case the Architect is the Engineer. Also, if the structure collapses, they have to prove beyond any reasonable doubt that it was the fault of the Engineer, not something that happened in construction or manufacturing. If the Engineer is found to be liable, a lawsuit would be the least of his/her worries and they would lose their registration and never be able to practice as an engineer again, and, if someone got hurt or killed, they could face jail time.
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  #410  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 8:10 PM
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Sounds like he is one of the structural engineers that has resentments about architects that shop the structural work around for the lowest fee...

Quote:
The architechts get the fees, but if the building, or in this case the bridge falls down, the structural engineer get's a lawsuit against him!
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  #411  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 9:24 PM
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This post seems a little harsh.
You're right, a bit harsh, and I didn't mean for it to sound as venomous as it probably reads. I still have a hard time figuring out where he's coming from a lot of the time though, and the heavy use of exlamation marks doesn't help. No hard feelings bob1954, you just happen to post some puzzling things sometimes.

-------

Anyway, I just realized that that was my first post in this thread as I was not following the forum when the design was released. I don't think it lives up to my expectations, but I'd say it comes close, and I'm pleased with it. I personally can't wait to walk across it and take some pictures of it from various angles.
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  #412  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2009, 10:05 PM
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This post seems a little harsh.
I DON'T THINK SO AT ALL! I THINK HE HAD A VERY GOOD POINT AND IT'S NICE TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE SHARE MY OPINION ON THINGS! HOW'S THE WEATHER TODAY BY THE WAY!

...

What?
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  #413  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 3:04 PM
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There were 2 columns in the Sun about the Peace Bridge.

Let's not give peace a chance

By IAN ROBINSON


OK, so it's too late to do anything about the Calatrava bridge over the Bow.

The damned bridge is coming.

The damned bridge is going to look like Chinese finger cuffs.

The damned bridge is gonna be red where it isn't transparent and I'm pretty sure every bird along the Bow is going to take every opportunity to crap all over it.

Thus acting like your average Calgary newspaper columnist.

And anybody who has seen the drawings now knows that those in authority who claimed the damned bridge was going to be an iconic tourist destination just because it was going to be so gosh-darned marvy is obviously enjoying a much better brand of B.C. ditch weed than is available to the general population of this fine city.

Much better.

I mean, like, can you hook the rest of us up?

I'm just saying.

Anyway, the damned bridge is coming, it's going to cost a ridiculous amount of coin and there's nothing we can do about it.

But you know what we can do something about?

And no, I'm not talking about voting out the rascals who perpetrated this ... this ... thing upon us.

Let's face it. When it comes to politics in these parts, we've got the collective attention span of a brain-damaged squirrel that just ate a package of crystal meth that an East Village junkie accidentally dropped.

By the time the next election rolls around, Paris Hilton will get out of a car without her panties again, and we'll all be glued to YouTube watching the video and forget to go vote.

Which pretty much explains Alberta politics in a nutshell.

We're too busy doing important stuff.

Besides, by then the recession will probably be good and over and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about. A lousy $25 million for a bridge? So what? Pass the caviar and shut the hell up.

But while expecting a groundswell of angry public opinion to sweep these Clown College drop-outs from office is too much, we can try to at least re-name this monstrosity.

Because the name bites.

As our esteemed Mayor Dave Bronconnier explained to us, the bridge was never meant to be an artsy, self-indulgent slap in the face to decent, hard-working, salt-of-the-earth, prairie folk who pay taxes.

No. Not at all.

The bridge was to honour our glorious war dead as part of the Memorial Dr. redevelopment. It would commemorate the sacrifices made by our brave boys and girls in uniform, those buried beneath foreign soil now forever Canada, and those who returned bearing the various physical and spiritual burdens of their noble service.

So what does the city decide to call this bridge, the monument to the Canadian warrior spirit, to those who go into battle to slay our enemies on our behalf?

Vimy Ridge Bridge? Juno Beach Bridge? Warrior Bridge? Kandahar Bridge? Valour Bridge? Heroes' Bridge?

Naw. Those might be, you know, militaristic or something.

Might offend the delicate sensitivities of people who believe in recycling rather than artillery as a way to make the world a better place.

So they decided to call it the Peace Bridge.

I know. Wimp City. Yuck.

Ray Jones, Ric McIver and Diane Colley-Urquhart voted against the name. The rest of council, displaying a collective testosterone deficit similar to that of a convention of eunuchs, thought Peace Bridge was just dandy.

And never mind that the Peace Bridge, as a name, is already taken, and joins Lake Erie and Buffalo and is kind of, you know, famous.

Bad enough we're getting stuck with the bill for this thing.

The least we could do is give it a name that isn't entirely cringeworthy.


http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/co...77001-sun.html
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  #414  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 3:07 PM
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And one from Bigtime's buddy Mr Platt.


News Columnists / Michael Platt
Bridge walks all over mediocrity

By MICHAEL PLATT




You either love it or hate it, and that's exactly the point.

Somewhere in the fog of political controversy that's clouded Calgary's Calatrava-designed Peace Bridge, the most remarkable achievement has been lost.

For Calgary, it's almost a miracle -- and if it wasn't for the controversy over civic politics and the untimely, undemocratic expense of the $24.5 million span, it would certainly be the central story surrounding the new bridge.

Calgarians, for one of the very few times in this city's 134-year history, are genuinely excited about architecture.

By excited, we're referring to a strong emotional reaction, both pro and con -- people either loathe or adore the red-trestle tube designed by Santiago Calatrava to ferry human traffic over the Bow River.

Ignore the bitter politics, and pretend Calgary's new bridge was a gift from some philanthropic billionaire, and it's the public emotion that really sets this structure apart.

It's a rare day in Calgary when the population actually debates the esthetics merits of buildings or infrastructure -- yet around the office water cooler, it's what citizens are talking about.

Above and beyond the divided opinion on whether the bridge should have been approved in the first place, Calgarians have a strong opinion on what the structure looks like. And that, in this city, is a rare achievement.

The Husky Tower, the Saddledome, Calgary's Municipal Building -- the list is too short, when it comes to local architecture that has really stirred Calgarians to react with anger or embrace.

There was a spark of excited passion when the design for EnCana's giant Bow Building was unveiled three years ago, though it was really little more than the usual glass tower, built as a curve.

Still, the lively reaction to The Bow suggested Calgarians were ready for architecture that really challenges the senses.

With the Peace Bridge, we finally have it.

Calatrava's bridge, seen by some as an ugly drinking straw laid on end, and others as the sleek embodiment of urban cool, ushers a new era of design that does more than just sit there, taking up space.

It's about time, too.

Calgary, for too long, has been a city of concrete and complacency, where mini-malls, box stores and beige houses dominate the landscape.

Build it and they will yawn, seemed to be Calgary's motto, as historic buildings were torn down and drab boxes put up in their place, with cookie cutter towers showing little imagination as they filled the skyline.

Citizens shrugged, and local architects wallowed in mediocrity, reproducing the same stale designs for clients too timid or cheap to rock the boat.

Spending $24.5 million on an unnecessary bridge was the most politically brainless move a city council could make during a recession, but it was a bold choice to demand something different.

The Calatrava project is a torpedo in the bow of mediocrity, and that council felt the need to hire a foreign architect should be a slap in the face of all local designers.

Calgary's architects should ask themselves when they last drew an audience with something they designed -- because when this bridge is finished, it'll draw curious Calgarians like moths to a porch light.

A queue to cross the new bridge? It's likely, and for Calgary, it's a miracle.

Hopefully, the grand opening in fall of 2010 also draw a few impressionable young architects, who'll see this as the new standard.

This columnist will certainly be there, to see whether the artistic renderings match the reality.

Personally, I'm hoping the reality is better than the drawing. I was on vacation when the drawings were released, and I returned last week, keen to see what all the controversy is about.

My first reaction was surprise. Spain's top architect, famous for soaring structures filling the air, had given us a tube -- a red tube, with LED lights and braided steel.

The need to keep airspace clear had restricted Calatrava, and the result is a little like hiring Motorhead to play an all-acoustic venue. Great act, wrong stage.

Calatrava's bridge isn't boring though, that's for sure. I've spent days thinking about it, discussing it with friends and co-workers.

It isn't for me, but it soars far above Calgary's usual attempts at architecture.

I hate it, and that's a very good thing.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum...77281-sun.html


/Ramsayfarian, reading the Sun so you don't have to.
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  #415  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 3:28 PM
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There are so many things said in that last article that completely contradict previous Platt articles that I don't even know where to begin.
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  #416  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 3:29 PM
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Here's a link to an awesome alternative to Calatrava's bridge. Unfortunately the build time is bit too long.

http://rootbridges.blogspot.com/
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  #417  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bob1954 View Post
The architechts get the fees, but if the building, or in this case the bridge falls down, the structural engineer get's a lawsuit against him!
sadly, it that were to happen, everyone listed on the project would be sued, from the steel supplier to the geotech, from the construction manager to the architect.
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  #418  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian View Post
Here's a link to an awesome alternative to Calatrava's bridge. Unfortunately the build time is bit too long.

http://rootbridges.blogspot.com/
I keep waiting to see Predator jump out of the jungle...
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  #419  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 8:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian View Post
Here's a link to an awesome alternative to Calatrava's bridge. Unfortunately the build time is bit too long.

http://rootbridges.blogspot.com/
That's awesome!
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  #420  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2009, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian View Post
Here's a link to an awesome alternative to Calatrava's bridge. Unfortunately the build time is bit too long.

http://rootbridges.blogspot.com/
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