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  #2061  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 6:24 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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So I'm guessing none of you live in St. B or know anybody there.

St . B'ers LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE St. Boniface. It is God. They can not fathom how people live outside of St. B and most of all they do not want it to change. That is why they pay $1M to live on Marion. Seriously though.

But yeah, there's a park directly across the street from all the condos on Tache, so lots of greenspace. And the Pointe Hebert neighbourhood is expensive, and for a reason. People will pay it.

My girlfriend is from St. B and I had to basically drag her out of there to our current place in EK. We get shit on all the time by her family because we live on the other side of the tracks. Seriously though. They don't even joke. Family lives within sight of eachother, 3 of them. That's how life is in the B.

For the price we paid in EK, we would have gotten one of those shacks that were torn down in Pointe Hebert to make way for the new houses.
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  #2062  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 6:52 PM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
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Originally Posted by CoryB View Post
If Raw Almond is successful because it has guest chefs, pre-set menus and only advanced sold tickets why could that not be replicated on Esplanade Reil? Knowing what food you needing on a given night and who many people were coming could make the supply and staffing issues easier to mange as well. I know places other than Raw Almond bring in celebrity chefs and have similar event type dinners so not sure why trying to run the location built around that premise would be anymore a failure than what has been tried before.
Well, that was one very small point in amongst more important ones.

Raw Almond operates for a few weeks a year as a novelty event for the sort of people who will always eventually find something cooler than you. It's not really that informative of anything. Mandel Hitzer was a very popular guy in the city's hipster community who did a good job of marketing a concept, but it has a finite lifespan.

If your suggestion is that you'd be able to capitalize on the exact same variables to recreate their concept or one similar, I'd cast a lot of doubt on that. You might be right in that the place could just become a commercial kitchen available to those who want to throw private dinners or whatever, but there's a limit to that market. And that market is more interested in doing it at the Neon Factory than some nondescript restaurant that happens to be on a bridge.

Either way, both concepts still lead to a failure of intention. That incredibly expensive design was never meant to house a few transient dinner parties while sitting vacant for the rest of the time.
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  #2063  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 6:58 PM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
So I'm guessing none of you live in St. B or know anybody there.

St . B'ers LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE St. Boniface. It is God. They can not fathom how people live outside of St. B and most of all they do not want it to change. That is why they pay $1M to live on Marion. Seriously though.

But yeah, there's a park directly across the street from all the condos on Tache, so lots of greenspace. And the Pointe Hebert neighbourhood is expensive, and for a reason. People will pay it.

My girlfriend is from St. B and I had to basically drag her out of there to our current place in EK. We get shit on all the time by her family because we live on the other side of the tracks. Seriously though. They don't even joke. Family lives within sight of eachother, 3 of them. That's how life is in the B.

For the price we paid in EK, we would have gotten one of those shacks that were torn down in Pointe Hebert to make way for the new houses.
But I don't really think they are. I saw all the homes going up, a bunch with sold signs. Then one day the work just stopped for months and the sold signs were all down. And we're talking little bi-level homes here - nothing more than 1300 or 1400 sq ft. It only takes a couple months to build a house like that. I'd be surprised if there are a bunch that are finished and occupied by now.
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  #2064  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 7:04 PM
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harls harls is offline
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BDI should set up shop on that bridge (that place where Salisbury House abandoned?)

There will never be a year round place there. People will not come out in the dead of frickin' winter. Operate it from May to October.

Fuck, I'd go.. and I will bring a bunch of Quebec people with me. I brought my wife to the original BDI a few years ago, and she told all her friends about it... how good it was.

This is the kind of crap Winnipeg needs.
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  #2065  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 9:25 PM
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BDI should set up shop on that bridge (that place where Salisbury House abandoned?)

There will never be a year round place there. People will not come out in the dead of frickin' winter. Operate it from May to October.

Fuck, I'd go.. and I will bring a bunch of Quebec people with me. I brought my wife to the original BDI a few years ago, and she told all her friends about it... how good it was.

This is the kind of crap Winnipeg needs.
So BDI would dilute their existing business to open another store in a location that is logistically impossible to turn a profit? Why?
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  #2066  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 9:39 PM
bomberjet bomberjet is offline
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So let's get creative here. Will likely be some form of pop-up or kiosk thing.

It'll need to be seasonal. Summer it can be ice cream, cold drinks, maybe a licensed patio of some sort? Maybe a series of local pop-up restaurants?

Winter it can used as a stop on the river trail maybe. Here's the getting creative part. They can have some type of portable, re-useable staircase or walkway down to the river. Have it included with the whole warming hut thing. raw almond maybe. Have the restaurant part serving warming drinks, etc etc.

Again, it's not viable for any single business. But maybe the City and Forks can make the best of it by actually trying something unique.

On a similar topic, which would help with business, Esplanade Riel needs some better connectivity to the Cities AT system. Same scenario that goes with the Disraeli AT bridge.
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  #2067  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 11:28 PM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
So let's get creative here. Will likely be some form of pop-up or kiosk thing.

It'll need to be seasonal. Summer it can be ice cream, cold drinks, maybe a licensed patio of some sort? Maybe a series of local pop-up restaurants?

Winter it can used as a stop on the river trail maybe. Here's the getting creative part. They can have some type of portable, re-useable staircase or walkway down to the river. Have it included with the whole warming hut thing. raw almond maybe. Have the restaurant part serving warming drinks, etc etc.

Again, it's not viable for any single business. But maybe the City and Forks can make the best of it by actually trying something unique.

On a similar topic, which would help with business, Esplanade Riel needs some better connectivity to the Cities AT system. Same scenario that goes with the Disraeli AT bridge.
Even the Forks would need a willing vendor. And let's not forget - even in the summer the kiosks on the St. B side are always dead.

The bridge is really only useful for cyclists heading into Whittier and people commuting on foot or bike from St. B. There's really nothing on the other side of the bridge that would draw anybody across. The restaurant almost needs to be completely scrapped to allow for a takeout window while still understanding that it's a sidewalk and active transportation route that it's on.
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  #2068  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2015, 11:40 PM
Danny D Oh Danny D Oh is offline
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It was a dumb idea and remains one. City needs to cut it's losses and let someone operate seasonally. Even at that it will probably struggle.
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  #2069  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2015, 12:05 AM
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It was a dumb idea and remains one. City needs to cut it's losses and let someone operate seasonally. Even at that it will probably struggle.
Yeah, it's too big for the sort of seasonal operation that might otherwise succeed there.
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  #2070  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2015, 2:19 AM
Winnipeg Architect Winnipeg Architect is offline
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Originally Posted by bomberjet View Post
So I'm guessing none of you live in St. B or know anybody there.

St . B'ers LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE St. Boniface. It is God. They can not fathom how people live outside of St. B and most of all they do not want it to change. That is why they pay $1M to live on Marion. Seriously though.

But yeah, there's a park directly across the street from all the condos on Tache, so lots of greenspace. And the Pointe Hebert neighbourhood is expensive, and for a reason. People will pay it.

My girlfriend is from St. B and I had to basically drag her out of there to our current place in EK. We get shit on all the time by her family because we live on the other side of the tracks. Seriously though. They don't even joke. Family lives within sight of eachother, 3 of them. That's how life is in the B.

For the price we paid in EK, we would have gotten one of those shacks that were torn down in Pointe Hebert to make way for the new houses.
You are one funny dude!

Don't worry. You will be back.

When her parents move into a condo on Tache you will be forced to buy their house.

Love the verbage on the shacks........there are still tons available if you like ghetto life.
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  #2071  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2015, 4:55 PM
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See where Barrish is willing to set up his slop palace back over the river as long as the city owns the restaurant and takes all the losses, of course he want's to be paid to manage the restaurant under the Sal's name. Free Press shill Kirbyson seems to in favour.

Really surprised Chez Sophie didn't flourish after the opening of the CMHR with it's huge crowds of moneyed visitors from around the globe.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...rce=d-tiles-3#
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  #2072  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2015, 5:35 PM
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That lot belongs to Len Stotts who is the cheapest, most impossible person on his best day. He also owns the two lots behind him which you'd need to develop anything meaningful, so nothing's going to happen. But he's not even the biggest problem. That boarded up hole beside him belongs to Enterprise Riel which is essentially CentreVenture St. Boniface/St. Norbert/St. Vital. They bought the old building that was there for peanuts and tore it down. Instead of carrying out their mandate as a proponent for development in the area, they sat on it waiting for it to appreciate. Once they figured they had a little goldmine on their hands, they put the lot up for about $850K which is nonsense given that they don't own the land behind them and there's a lane that would need to be closed. Naturally, nobody's bitten. Of course there have been tire kickers with a hotel and condo and whatever else, but nobody serious given the ridiculous purchase price. In addition, since a member of Bockstael always sits on the board, anybody that did anything there is essentially beholden.

The area also has a secondary plan which makes density difficult but none of the landowners understand how that affects the value. Streetside was able to vary the secondary plan down the street on their development on Tache, but that project hasn't turned out so well and it's hugely expensive to try. The residents are also as organized as they come and they keep making noise about traffic down their side streets so in addition to everything else, you've got a neighbourhood full of NIMBYs with a councilor (Vandal) who knew where his bread was buttered. And Allard won't be any different given he's Vandal's protege.

And the south side of the street has a completely different set of restrictions altogether making any sort of dense mixed-use impossible.

Provencher is a complete mess and the city's planning documents and community committee process is a huge part of the reason why. But it's also the result of an economic development agency trying to play developer instead of facilitating it. As a result, you've got a miserly landowner and a economic development agency conspiring against each other mostly for spite at this point in what could be considered the most strategic area on that strip.
Great synopsis, but very depressing. About 10 years ago it seemed as though Provencher was on the verge of becoming a true urban destination area as things like the new bridge and Place Joseph Royal were being built, along with an influx of new businesses like Step'N Out, Bijou, Cafe 22 and the like. Sadly, Provencher still feels more like the truck route that it is than any sort of charming walkable area.

I guess it's at least a bit more interesting than it was circa 15 years ago, but there is still not much to draw people across the bridge and that no doubt hurts the chances of any restaurant on the Esplanade Riel space. Might as well just make it a seasonal stand that rents out for special functions in the winter, and be done with it.
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  #2073  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2015, 7:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rrskylar View Post
Really surprised Chez Sophie didn't flourish after the opening of the CMHR with it's huge crowds of moneyed visitors from around the globe.
According to the "Bilabo Effect" Chez Sophie should by lined up to both ends of the bridge. Guess not eh?
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  #2074  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2015, 7:33 PM
Simplicity Simplicity is offline
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Great synopsis, but very depressing. About 10 years ago it seemed as though Provencher was on the verge of becoming a true urban destination area as things like the new bridge and Place Joseph Royal were being built, along with an influx of new businesses like Step'N Out, Bijou, Cafe 22 and the like. Sadly, Provencher still feels more like the truck route that it is than any sort of charming walkable area.

I guess it's at least a bit more interesting than it was circa 15 years ago, but there is still not much to draw people across the bridge and that no doubt hurts the chances of any restaurant on the Esplanade Riel space. Might as well just make it a seasonal stand that rents out for special functions in the winter, and be done with it.
There's a Cafe 22 and a fountain that's primarily used as a tub.

The neighbourhood gets exactly what it deserves. No matter what the issue is, there's always this underlying divide between the francophones and anglophones that destroys everything. I remember even the climbing wall guys were given nothing but grief at a point because the community was convinced the club was being co-opted by some english speaking climbers. They were going to refuse them access to the indoor climbing wall at the school gym. And it's always this way. St. B. has always actively worked against anything they might perceive as threatening their way of life even if that way of life is having cars on blocks on the front lawn and no discernible francophone culture left to speak of.
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  #2075  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2015, 12:49 AM
Winnipeg Architect Winnipeg Architect is offline
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There's a Cafe 22 and a fountain that's primarily used as a tub.

The neighbourhood gets exactly what it deserves. No matter what the issue is, there's always this underlying divide between the francophones and anglophones that destroys everything. I remember even the climbing wall guys were given nothing but grief at a point because the community was convinced the club was being co-opted by some english speaking climbers. They were going to refuse them access to the indoor climbing wall at the school gym. And it's always this way. St. B. has always actively worked against anything they might perceive as threatening their way of life even if that way of life is having cars on blocks on the front lawn and no discernible francophone culture left to speak of.
That is a relevant comment.

They have always been like that so all the street signs in St B and St Vital and area were change to add french. That cost a lot of money. I remember that parking ticket fiasco many decades ago that a frenche would not pay the ticket as he could not read English (so he said) so it was throw out in court. The bi-lingual thing cost taxpayers tens of millions of dollars a year or more in Manitoba for all the repackaging of goods and forms, as well as bi-lingual civil servants.

The residents that wanted that Sophie restaurant so bad did not support it, so it closed the doors.

The people in St. B are to blame for that.

So, congratulations are in order.

Ray Simard is a friend of mine for 20 years and he is a super nice guy.

Danny Vandal has always supported my causes he is a stand up guy.

Too bad that Provencher has gone downhill for many years now as it had potential to be great.

The people there should get together and make the area a better place to live.
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  #2076  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2015, 4:33 PM
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According to the "Bilabo Effect" Chez Sophie should by lined up to both ends of the bridge. Guess not eh?
Come on River, just because spending $5M in tax dollars to build an inaccessible restaurant on a bridge made sense to former mayor Murray and a select few doesn't mean it won't work, it just needs to be tried a few more times! I mean who doesn't wan't the thrill and excitement of actually sitting on a bridge to eat dinner or are you one of those boring types who would rather sit on a deck or patio overlooking the river?
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  #2077  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2015, 4:46 PM
horrorbro123 horrorbro123 is online now
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  #2078  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2015, 6:59 PM
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So if nothing works on the bridge, they should tear down the restaurant and make it a sitting area. Minimal long term maintenance. Gets rid of the headache. But hey you could sill have a public washroom and water fountain! The money's already been wasted.
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  #2079  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2015, 9:28 PM
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So if nothing works on the bridge, they should tear down the restaurant and make it a sitting area. Minimal long term maintenance. Gets rid of the headache. But hey you could sill have a public washroom and water fountain! The money's already been wasted.
I've been suggesting the same thing, I'm sure the washroom could be mothballed for the winter months.
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  #2080  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2015, 3:24 PM
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The money has already been sunk on the commercial kitchen on the bridge. Might as well leave it there and if a permanent tenant can't be found rent it out as an event space, kitchen and washroom included.

Turning it into a general, public open space though seems to have the potential for trouble. The relatively isolated nature of the location screams with potential to be a crime hotspot if it isn't monitored.
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