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  #961  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 5:32 PM
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pretty cool

theres just one issue i have with this line, why couldnt they have eliminated the 2 at-grade road crossings? theres one at flavel street and one for a parknride at mall 205. and not have the riders crossing the tracks to get to and from the stations by having the stations more like the ones along I-84.
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  #962  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 5:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Drmyeyes View Post
Where's the money 65max? Portland isn't Manhattan or NYC in general. Would this relatively little city ever be able to make a strong enough argument for a subway to get the money? Seems like people like to reference Spain and it's underground city streets (don't they have a subway too?) but the comparison never seems to be quite convincing.

Even big sister Seattle can't pull together the money to get rid of their scar of a viaduct let alone mount a big subway project, which they could use in the worst way. A subway for Portland sounds like a nice dream, but given the circumstances, probably not much more unless the city suddenly grows into a much larger economic dynamo than it is.
This is coming from an outsider, but given Portland's record on being able to get funding for it's projects through very creative ways I think it will get done within the next 15 years. Maybe they can float a city bond that can be repaid through Parking fees or bed/airport taxes in a 20 year period. Or have the South Yellow Line route to Milwaukie be built by using only local funds that can be used as state and federal match for the Downtown Subway. Or even perform a study to extend platform lengths to 3 or 4 cars now which would make a Downtown subway all the more neccessary for the money to fund the study because it's more than just an isolated subway it will increase capacity on the entire system by 100% with just this one move.

One of the advantages Portland can make is that they are adding all of these lines to the core of Downtown by 2009 there will be even more of a need once the Green Line is in play and the Steel Bridge will max out of capacity in 3 years and they can't add any more service without putting one set of lines underground (Blue + Red) or (Yellow + Green)
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  #963  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 5:49 PM
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AORTA has been pushing for the subway for years, in fact they were pushing for it when the original Banfield MAX line was being planned.

Seattle's downtown transit tunnel opened in 1990 anticipating the now under construction light rail line. If it weren't for the faulty insulated tracks in the tunnel this would have been a model of forward thinking. Subway tunnels only get more expensive and complex to build.

Ideally Portland now should have followed Seattle's lead and built a subway from Union Station down either 5th or 6th to City Hall then west on Jefferson to Goose Hollow (connect to existing line). The short PSU extension could be built with this initial subway line or with the Milwaukie line. For now the trains could continue using the Steel Bridge then enter the tunnel by Union Station to go through downtown. Eventually the subway could be extended under the Willamette River and Rose/Lloyd Districts and MAX service on the Steel Bridge discontinued.
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  #964  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 5:52 PM
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The possibilities are endless... obviously the smart choice would be to bury the red/blue because there is no way in flying blue and red hell that they'd keep the transit mall totally car-accessible and adding two nice lanes to the mix in the middle of the CBD would be pretty sweet.

I dunno, I say we should all pool resources and start making waves.
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  #965  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2007, 6:05 PM
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^ 'cause it's cheaper
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  #966  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 3:49 AM
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Burnside: Seeing both sides of the one-way controversy
Portland faces a historic decision on a proposed Burnside-Couch couplet, and it will determine how we develop socially, physically and economically
Sunday, February 04, 2007
RANDY GRAGG

Nothing has ever divided Portland quite so peculiarly as the proposed Burnside/Couch couplet.

The Portland Office of Transportation's plan to pair West Burnside and Northwest Couch Street as one-way adjacent streets through downtown has turned developer against developer, residents against residents -- and some friends against friends -- in a battle royal of competing self-interests.

But anyone interested in the long-term health of the city might want to look beyond the narrow views, pro or con. This is a historic decision. Burnside is the city's spine. Change it so dramatically, and you alter the body.

When the couplet debate first came to a head two years ago, transportation commissioner Sam Adams decided to restudy it. He began, he says, as an agnostic, but after a 14-month study, he emerged a believer and even added the prayer beads of a streetcar loop.

Now, for the Portland City Council voting March 1 on whether to proceed with the couplet's preliminary engineering, "yes" offers a near-irresistible two-fer: They can please both the grass-roots social service agencies and neighborhood associations that support the couplet, plus real estate magnates such as Harold Schnitzer, who pledged $150 million in investment in his Burnside properties if the couplet passes.

But let's hit the pause button. Adams' earnest study -- and nearly all the debate -- skipped two important considerations: how Burnside fits into Portland's urban history, or how streets like it operate in other cities.

Burnside is unique among the city's streets. In the 1850s, Captain John Couch made a fateful choice, aligning streets on his land to the compass rather than Portland's first plats, oriented to the river for easier ship loading. The result was "B Street," a diagonal seam connecting the city's first two grids.

The street, later renamed Burnside, grew into a border: to the north, a working-class railroad district and doorway to arriving immigrants; to the south a skyscraping financial center. That division grew greater in 1950, when Portland adopted its one-way downtown street system -- but only south of Burnside. The north remained Portland's gritty connection to the wider world by boat, truck and train, while the south became an efficient mover of white-collar workers to and from the neighborhoods and suburbs.

Such historic distinctions have dramatically blurred in the past decade. But the Burnside debate has exposed an important new divide: between the "Road People," who love the couplet, and the "Urban People," who hate it.

Road People cherish the efficiency of one-way streets: The 56-second street-light cycles reward motorists inching ahead at 12 mph in any direction with steady green. To them Burnside is a disruption the couplet would fix. Indeed, some Roadies hope to expand the one-way, 56-second grid all the way to the river.
For Urban People, Burnside is second only to the Willamette River in its importance to Portland's physical and mental maps. Its disruptions -- the triangular corners, the varying widths, its strange fit into the transportation system -- all are opportunities for unique buildings, landscapes and experiences within the city's larger fabric.

The disagreement may sound like pointy-heads tut-tutting at one another. But who wins has historic consequences, determining how the city will develop, socially, physically and economically.

It's a decision between conformity and diversity.

Portland's unique, 200-foot-square blocks have made us arguably the most European of American cities in our petite scale. But we're anything but European in how we've put the streets surrounding these blocks to use.

The one-way streets south of Burnside keep traffic moving, cutting in half the so-called "conflict points" between walkers and drivers. But the result is an unrelenting sameness, the successes of which leave our transportation planners seemingly incapable of appreciating such important variations as Burnside.

Indeed, left to its own instincts, the Portland Office of Transportation would make every street the same: narrow the corners with corner "bulb-outs," put in the street trees, plug in the old-timey streetlights, plop down the public art -- job done. That's the couplet plan.

No major city in the nation, much less in Europe, is a slave to such homogeneity. Some streets move more cars and transit. Some move more pedestrians. Look for the cheaper restaurants and discount shops on the busier thoroughfares. Saunter between the boutiques and wine bars on calmer ones. From San Francisco's Market Street to New York's Houston and Canal streets, the Burnsides of the world function as thresholds between distinct places.

The couplet debate has turned into tasty media bait. It's a good ol' class war: the Brewery Blocks condo owners fighting to keep Northwest Couch Street's European pedestrian ambience against the Old Town social-service clients fighting for their safety on Burnside. Adams plays it up, continually citing how four out the city's 10 most dangerous pedestrian crossings lie between the Burnside Bridge and Northwest Eighth Avenue.

But Burnside's dangers are already better because of longer nighttime traffic signals and "walk/don't walk" lights that blink the seconds remaining for pedestrians. And much more can be done -- better lighting and signs, not to mention patrolling. It's a design and enforcement problem, not a crisis.

The real class battle about the couplet is economic. Portland, I believe, has crossed an important threshold where demographic trends and its desirability is certain to lead to more downtown housing. Left a little "undesirable" to the developer class, Burnside will change more slowly and organically with some parts remaining incubators for urban character: record stores, used clothing outlets, humbler restaurants and, yes, adult venues.

As a speed bump to the sameness racing to suffocate Portland, physically and socially, this historic street will continue its role of both divide and seam. But it has a critical new task: keeping Portland weird.

Randy Gragg: 503-221-8575; randygragg@news.oregonian.com
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  #967  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Drmyeyes View Post
Where's the money 65max? Portland isn't Manhattan or NYC in general. Would this relatively little city ever be able to make a strong enough argument for a subway to get the money? Seems like people like to reference Spain and it's underground city streets (don't they have a subway too?) but the comparison never seems to be quite convincing.

Even big sister Seattle can't pull together the money to get rid of their scar of a viaduct let alone mount a big subway project, which they could use in the worst way. A subway for Portland sounds like a nice dream, but given the circumstances, probably not much more unless the city suddenly grows into a much larger economic dynamo than it is.
You have to have a plan in place before you can raise the money for it. If Trimet and Metro and Portland make this a priority (which is looking more and more likely, even Hansen has started mentioning it recently), there's any number of ways that this could be financed. Remember, we now have major allies in the US Congress who are suddenly in powerful positions and can pull many (purse) strings. DeFazio, Blumenauer, Wyden. I'd say now is the perfect time to capitalize on their influence. Bottom line, if it's a priority, it'll get built.

Comparing us to NYC is a red herring argument. Most cities that now have subways (including NYC, Chicago, Philly) were smaller than Portland is now when they got their first tunnels. And yes, Pittsburgh (now smaller than PDX) has a subway, and is currently extending it in two places.

Also, comparing the burying of a six-lane freeway with 10' shoulders (for emergency stops) in each direction, a minimum 100' ROW, to two 14' wide subway tubes, well that's just a tad bit disingenuous. Like comparing a watermelon to a grape.
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  #968  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 5:32 AM
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Greg's article brings up a good point in the debate, but I believe that adding 20' wide sidewalks on both sides of the street, plus parallel parking and bicycle lanes, will actually do WAAAAAY more for pedestrians than for traffic. I've been living in Portland for awhile, but Burnside just sucks walking along it because there is nothing to protect you from traffic.
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  #969  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 6:40 AM
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...yawn...

Yes, it's Portland's divider, social divider, physical divider, a psychological divider, a N-S divider, a collision of 2 separate grids, yada, yada, yada.

Bottom line? None of that changes if it becomes a couplet with Couch, except maybe the physical separation becomes less pronounced for pedestrians and traffic going N-S. And I don't see anything wrong with that. In fact, I see only advantages with the couplet, including an activated Couch St instead of the backwater it is now. That's a GOOD thing, no matter what a few vocal Henry residents say. And adding the streetcar is just icing on the cake. Any arterial that's being rebuilt in the close-in neighborhoods should at least consider a streetcar to encourage development. It's a lot cheaper to do when the street's already torn up.

Regarding Burnside, nothing on the map changes, same collision of the grids, same dividing line between SW-NW and SE-NE.
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  #970  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 10:04 AM
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isn't there a pic or rendering of how burnside will look?
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  #971  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 10:25 AM
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ditto
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  #972  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:15 PM
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^yes, somewhere...

C-Tran fleet switches to biodiesel
by Kennedy Smith
02/05/2007


VANCOUVER – C-Tran, the public transportation system serving Southwest Washington and parts of Portland, on Friday said it would begin using B100-grade biodiesel fuel in one of its fleet vehicles – becoming the "only" transit agency on the West Coast to use a B100 fleet vehicle.

B100, a fuel comprising entirely biodiesel with no traditional diesel fuel included, "will result in a 100 percent reduction of carbon and sulfur dioxide emissions," Tim Leavitt, C-Tran board chairman, said.

In November 2006, C-Tran was awarded a $605,000 grant from the Washington State Department of Ecology to retrofit its entire bus fleet with a goal of eliminating 90 percent of harmful emissions. The retrofits are expected to be completed by the end of 2007, with the agency using ultra-low-sulfur diesel.

The agency will use money from the grant for retrofits of its exhaust systems that are expected to eliminate another 40 percent to 50 percent of its remaining emissions.

"Today's biofuels industry, not surprisingly, is growing, literally," Leavitt said. "With fixed routes and centralized fueling, we are ideal candidates for alternative fuel use."

Biodiesel comes from non-petroleum-based sources such as vegetable oils, animal fats, and used cooking oils and trap grease from restaurants. In its pure form, it is known as B100, but it is usually blended with petrodiesel at low levels between 2 percent (B2) to 20 percent (B20).

The B100 bus – easily identified by its sunflower and blue-sky wrap – "is just the beginning," he said. "C-Tran will expand the biodiesel program to include running our entire fleet on B5, a 5 percent biodiesel blend."

"We are expecting to be purchasing approximately 50,000 gallons per year of biodiesel," said Scott Patterson of C-Tran. "The provider for the B5 for the fleet will be purchased through a Washington state contract, but we are going to use the B100 on the test bus through SeQuential."

The market for biodiesel in Southwest Washington and Oregon has grown to about 2.5 million gallons per year, and the market in the Puget Sound area and other parts of Washington is as much as 5 million gallons per year, according to Thomas Endicott, cofounder of SeQuential Biofuels.

"Not only is this an opportunity for cleaner-burning fuel, it's also been an economic development driver for jobs in the area," Endicott said. "There are a number of producers, SeQuential included, that are interested in doing this, and it's only made possible by fleets like C-Tran that lead the charge in using renewable fuels, not only using the B5 but also pushing the envelope to test out the higher grades like B20 and B99," Endicott said.

SeQuential produces 1 million gallons of biofuel per year – predominantly from canola grown in Eastern Oregon and used cooking oil supplied largely by Burgerville – in a production facility in Salem.

The contract gives SeQuential a leg up in Washington over several state-based competitors, including Seattle-based Washington Biodiesel, which plans to build a plant in Eastern Washington that would produce 35 million gallons of biodiesel annually, and Imperium Renewables, which is construction a plant at the Port of Grays Harbor that would output 100 million gallons of biodiesel each year.

By the second quarter of 2008, C-Tran will purchase 12 40-foot electric hybrid vehicles. C-Tran provides 26 commuter routes, plus five connector service areas in the cities of Camas, Battle Ground, La Center, Ridgefield and the town of Yacolt.

The state spent the last legislative session passing a number of bills to support the use of alternative fuels. Most notably, in March 2006, Washington Gov. Chris Gregoire approved the Energy Freedom Fund, which provides capital to support production of biodiesel, ethanol and other forms of renewable energy. The Legislature authorized $25 million in grants and low-interest loans for local governments and port facilities to develop refinery and production facilities.

Federal incentives to spur biodiesel production, use

Agency: Internal Revenue Service

Incentive: Income tax credit

Receiver: Infrastructure providers

Known as: Alternative Fuel Infrastructure Credit

Summary: Provides a tax credit in an amount equal to 30 percent of the cost of any qualified U.S. alternative fuel refueling property offering E85 (fuel mix with 85 percent ethanol) or greater or B20 or greater (diesel fuel mix with 20 percent biodiesel). The credit cannot exceed $30,000 and expires after Dec. 31, 2009.

Agency: Environmental Protection Agency

Incentive: Grant program

Receiver: School districts

Known as: Clean School Bus Program

Summary: Offers grants to school districts that limit bus idling, implement pollution-reduction technology, improve route logistics and switch to biodiesel. In 2005, the program offered $7.5 million in grants. The program grants up to 50 percent cost-share for schools that replace buses with ones that run on alternative fuels.

Agency: United States Department of Agriculture

Incentive: Grant program

Receiver: Ag producers and small businesses

Known as: Renewable Energy Systems and Energy Efficiency Improvements Grant

Summary: In 2005, the USDA made available $22.8 million in competitive grant funds and loans for the purchase of renewable energy systems and energy improvements for agricultural producers and small rural businesses. The applicant must provide at least 75 percent of project costs, and grant assistance to a single individual or entity cannot exceed $750,000. Eligible projects include biofuels, hydrogen and energy efficiency improvements, as well as solar, geothermal and wind power.

Source: International Fuel Quality Center
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  #973  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:16 PM
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isn't there a pic or rendering of how burnside will look?


i havent seen one so far

although it might be out there floating around
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  #974  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 4:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 65MAX View Post

Also, comparing the burying of a six-lane freeway with 10' shoulders (for emergency stops) in each direction, a minimum 100' ROW, to two 14' wide subway tubes, well that's just a tad bit disingenuous. Like comparing a watermelon to a grape.
Except for light rail lines capacity is about 1/4 of a single lane of freeway.
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  #975  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 8:03 PM
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65MAX, certainly a plan is important, and at any rate, a subway is the logical thing to plan for as a means of addressing congestion and livability issues, especially in a downtown. It's true that in congress, we now have some new strength. There's always a hope. I'm admittedly weak on figures and numbers, so I don't really have an idea about subway construction costs and financing, except that (and I seem to remember this slightly from reading here) I seem to have the impression that it is very expensive, more expensive than most other forms of ground mas transit.

NYC, Chicago, Pittsburgh may have been smaller cities than Portland when their subways were built, but I expect that as economic forces, they were comparatively far greater for that era relative to their size. That fact is how I would imagine they were able to make the strong argument they did for subway construction. I have no idea about Philly.

It's not neccessarily the physical size of a downtown that might decide or limit the construction of something like a subway, it's the economic activity that goes on there, what it's relevance to the economic health of a region is, and whether it's thought that congestion sufficiently hinders its economic potential to the extent that something like the cost of a subway would be justified. Do we have such a situation in Portland?
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  #976  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:19 PM
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There was a fly-through CG video of the proposed Burnside/Couch couplet, similar to the MAX on the Mall video. I forget where I saw it, but it was very cool. Anybody else remember this?
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  #977  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:22 PM
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we had a Burnside Couplet thread that had renderings and alignment maps from the Oregonian...I haven't found where that thread went.
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  #978  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:26 PM
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here we go...

the video is here
http://www.nc3d.com/gallery/movies
click on
Burnside Redevelopment
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  #979  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:36 PM
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Yes, we are very close to that situation now. Especially with the influx of new residents into the central core. The economic importance of DT to the rest of the region is immense, and necessity will dictate that eventually, the regional rail system will HAVE to go underground to maintain accessibility to and through DT. The surface streets and blocks are simply too small for them to stay at grade. This is a key difference here in PDX that other cities (except maybe Boston) don't have, small blocks and narrow streets. Also, congestion on the surface streets, especially pedestrians, make it a safety issue as well.
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  #980  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2007, 9:53 PM
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the video is here
http://www.nc3d.com/gallery/movies
click on
Burnside Redevelopment


Thanks MDM, now I can waste even MORE time at work....
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