Winnipeg City Transit/Rapid Transit

[Greco Roman]

I feel a revolt coming on..................................

[amac]

Sadly, a revolt might be the only thing that makes these snoozing city counsellors wake the fuck up. Seriously, why should they give a damn? Their bloated salaries allow them to own cars and live in the 'burbs, how could they possibly relate to the average car-less commuter? Grrr...

[Greco Roman]

So I turn on the news tonight here in Edmonton, and what do I see? LRT Expansion in conjunction with new downtown skyscraper (among several), new multi-milion dollar rec centre, new interchanges, etc. And also in their headlines was the story about how a 10 year old boy in Winnipeg was responsible for starting over 30 fires.

And then exciting news in Winnipeg: yet another parking lot has been approved for downtown.


I hope that there are city councillors who read this and maybe they'll get a clue as how out to lunch they are on transit and almost every other issue. But sadly enough, I'm sure nothing will come of it.

Sigh, that's our Winnipeg

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Greco Roman

So I turn on the news tonight here in Edmonton, and what do I see? LRT Expansion in conjunction with new downtown skyscraper (among several), new multi-milion dollar rec centre, new interchanges, etc. And also in their headlines was the story about how a 10 year old boy in Winnipeg was responsible for starting over 30 fires.

And then exciting news in Winnipeg: yet another parking lot has been approved for downtown.


I hope that there are city councillors who read this and maybe they'll get a clue as how out to lunch they are on transit and almost every other issue. But sadly enough, I'm sure nothing will come of it.

Sigh, that's our Winnipeg

I don't know if any Councillors are on here or not, but I do know for a fact that Gerbasi, Vandal, Gord Steeves, and Gerard are on Facebook in various Winnipeg-themed groups.

[JayM]

Originally Posted by jimj_wpg

I don't know if any Councillors are on here or not, but I do know for a fact that Gerbasi, Vandal, Gord Steeves, and Gerard are on Facebook in various Winnipeg-themed groups.

i know its not the best idea ever thought of, but im sure theres some way they could build a parkade incorporating multi usage area within., cover up the ugly style of parkade they usually leave.

[wags_in_the_peg]

Originally Posted by amac

Sadly, a revolt might be the only thing that makes these snoozing city counsellors wake the fuck up. Seriously, why should they give a damn? Their bloated salaries allow them to own cars and live in the 'burbs, how could they possibly relate to the average car-less commuter? Grrr...

Bloated salaries? I feel they are underpaid. I'd rather see them make $20k more and that way you'd perhaps get more entrepreneurs, business minded people and the like going for it. not a topic to discuss on a construction forum though!

[Spocket]

Originally Posted by jimj_wpg

I don't know if any Councillors are on here or not, but I do know for a fact that Gerbasi, Vandal, Gord Steeves, and Gerard are on Facebook in various Winnipeg-themed groups.

No, if they were on here, they'd have a clue.

[Alva360]

Originally Posted by nordique

god damn this city is cheap. "what? build light rail transit which benefit from our province's abundant hydro electricity, which will lower fees and emissions, which will in turn look more attractive and appealing for bus riders, which will result in higher profits, in turn allowing more light rail development which will mean more trains and decreased wait times ensuring both a happy business and customer? bahahaa, that's just silly. obviously we just need to spend $275 on cans of white paint and close down lanes on major arteries that will be used 5% of the time due to lack of buses to fill said corridors, thus tying up traffic moreso, wasting more of this $1.20 gas and making the world a stupider place. look at me, i'm a city of winnipeg councillor! fiddle-dee-dee!"

I laughed so hard at your comment, my stomach now hurts. thanks a lot!

Oh and just to add to it, we have a Union Train Station that is sooo... ready to be used the way it's intended to be used. Another city attraction!
But wait, who needs LRT? Let's just buy more buses, make more diamond lanes and f*ck up city traffic even more!

That's the way we do it here in the City of Winnipeg! Fiddle-dee-dee!

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by Alva360

I laughed so hard at your comment, my stomach now hurts. thanks a lot!

Oh and just to add to it, we have a Union Train Station that is sooo... ready to be used the way it's intended to be used. Another city attraction!
But wait, who needs LRT? Let's just buy more buses, make more diamond lanes and f*ck up city traffic even more!

That's the way we do it here in the City of Winnipeg! Fiddle-dee-dee!

And don't forget about the synchronization the traffic lights for the extra buses. That will really do wonders for the traffic issues here in the progressive City of Winnipeg.

Fiddle-dee-dye!

[amac]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

Bloated salaries? I feel they are underpaid. I'd rather see them make $20k more and that way you'd perhaps get more entrepreneurs, business minded people and the like going for it. not a topic to discuss on a construction forum though!

Underpaid? Um... OK. Bloated salaries or not, they're still out of touch. Offering more money won't attract anyone with vision. If it did, they would be beaten down into mediocrity like the rest of them. Not money well spent, I'd say.

[newflyer]

While other provinces are committing hundreds of millions towards rapid transit, in today's provincial budget our Manitoba Government has committed... ummm ..errr... ahhh well in other news....

[flatlander]

Originally Posted by newflyer

While other provinces are committing hundreds of millions towards rapid transit, in today's provincial budget our Manitoba Government has committed... ummm ..errr... ahhh well in other news....

Holy crap man. Your version of reality is seriously f*cked. Seriously. Tell me, what colour is the sky in your world?

[Spocket]

^Uh , isn't he right though ?

[dennis]

Manitoba had hundreds of millions of dollars committed towards rapid transit. That rapid transit plan was scrapped. The money was utilized for other projects. Sam Katz then ordered another study costing millions of dollars, for a new rapid transit plan which was almost identical to the first. What is happening with this new plan? How much have construction costs escalated since the first plan?

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by dennis

Manitoba had hundreds of millions of dollars committed towards rapid transit. That rapid transit plan was scrapped. The money was utilized for other projects. Sam Katz then ordered another study costing millions of dollars, for a new rapid transit plan which was almost identical to the first. What is happening with this new plan? How much have construction costs escalated since the first plan?

Who knows.

However, I think that with all these costly studies, those costs could have paid for at least a few legs for a rapid-transit corridor by now.

Then by the time a plan is made, and what type of rapid transit it is, it will be twice as much, and the possibility of the so called critics saying "oh it's a waste of money" or "why can't we spend the money better on something else like roads?" will be having a field day against it, while at the same time, the city backs down and goes "cheap" yet again, and downsizes the design with it being half-assed.

I mean seriously, if you have a plan, you stick with it for fucks sakes! Get it right the first time!! You're responsible to know if there will be a risk of inflation of construction materials and other essential assets needed for such a project, so why back out?


Sorry. My post was originally a response, only to turn out to be a rant.

[Greco Roman]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

Who knows.

However, I think that with all these costly studies, those costs could have paid for at least a few legs for a rapid-transit corridor by now.

Then by the time a plan is made, and what type of rapid transit it is, it will be twice as much, and the possibility of the so called critics saying "oh it's a waste of money" or "why can't we spend the money better on something else like roads?" will be having a field day against it, while at the same time, the city backs down and goes "cheap" yet again, and downsizes the design with it being half-assed.

I mean seriously, if you have a plan, you stick with it for fucks sakes! Get it right the first time!! You're responsible to know if there will be a risk of inflation of construction materials and other essential assets needed for such a project, so why back out?


Sorry. My post was originally a response, only to turn out to be a rant.

Completely understandable; that is part-in-parcel of dealing with Winnipeg threads

[Mininari]

Inflation... yep.

Heres a little story from a Skytrain expansion project in Vancouver of the late 90's that got cancelled.

Its called the Evergreen Line (check the Vancouver forum)

It was orginally envisioned to be built in the early 90's
Estimated cost... not too sure, but its less than the following:

It was shelved.
Then revived in 96/97 by the NDP gov't -- estimated cost $670M
Then cancelled by the then-new liberal gov't

Then it came back... was revived as an LRT project... 700M... then inflated to 950M... then 990M... and most recently $1.2B ... (for an ~11km at-grade LRT with some tunnelling mind you)

Now the province has decided LRT isn't good enough, and have switched back to skytrain (automated trains) ... and its a whopping $1.4B estimated project now!

Why oh why didn't they build it years ago?

I bet thats a very common sentiment in Winnipeg. Man, you guys had a subway lined up in the 60's??? What a mess.

Pembina... Portage... 2 lines. There is PLENTY of density and even more POTENTIAL for development along these routes. Connect the Downtown, University, and a few hospitals, and then entice the private developers to get going crazy on mixed-use developments near stations. Make the stations covered and heated (and transparent to combat crime) so they're attractive in winter.

Same old rant I guess... but as a relatively new Winnipeg, I'm new to it.

[Andy6]

Winnipeg did not have a subway "lined up" in the 60s. Some guy drew a bunch of subway lines on the back of a napkin would be closer to the truth -- the lines didn't even make any sense and the short distances between the "stations" and numerous unnecessary river crossings suggest to me that the author of the "plan" knew about as much about subways as a nine-year-old would know about architecture after five minutes of playing SimCity.

The fact that something might be more expensive in the future is a pretty weak argument for building it today.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by Andy6

The fact that something might be more expensive in the future is a pretty weak argument for building it today.

Ok, now I know a little more about the "subway."

And yes, it IS a weak argument by itself, but it can strongly reinforce other moe directly pertinent reasons to build it... i.e. traffic demands, congestion, reduction of ghg emissions via transit improvements. If these are goals that the city, and province want to achieve today, then waiting around for inflation to keep skyrocketing is a horrible thing to do.

The above-example of the Evergreen line is case-in-point. There have been numerous reasons to build it since the early 90's... for one, its part of the "grand" urban development plan to control sprwal by increasing densities in the GVRD, with much of the growth to be focused on the area that the evergreen line would serve.
Well, that growth has been floruishing for the past 18 years now -- but still no rapid transit line. What was needed then (maybe not quite as desperately) is needed more than ever now -- and it will now cost $1.4B. Instead of making the debt payments on $400-500M, the province will now have to debt-service $1.4B.

[LilZebra]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Winnipeg did not have a subway "lined up" in the 60s. Some guy drew a bunch of subway lines on the back of a napkin would be closer to the truth -- the lines didn't even make any sense and the short distances between the "stations" and numerous unnecessary river crossings suggest to me that the author of the "plan" knew about as much about subways as a nine-year-old would know about architecture after five minutes of playing SimCity.

The fact that something might be more expensive in the future is a pretty weak argument for building it today.

Mr. Wilson was the very same dude who designed the Yonge St. subway line in Toronto in 1921...it took 30 years for Toronto to decide to build it...

But he was not just a subway designer, but also transportation engineer in general. He was called upon in 1951 here to "nationalize" the Winnipeg Electric Co. which operated our transit system back then.