Boise Transportation Thread

[jthomps4]

I assume they're talking about the extension of hwy 16 from state st south to 84

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by Boisebro

the new freeway is new to me.

anyone have a link to an article or map? will this freeway connect with I84, and will it be part of the interstate?

Here's some info on the first phase, connecting 44 and 20/26 via a new river crossing. This project is beginning soon and is funded: http://itd.idaho.gov/Projects/D3/Ida...6toIdaho44.asp

Here's info on the second phase, connecting 20/26 to I-84. This project has been extensively researched and planned, and is awaiting funding. The new freeway will tentatively be called ID-16, possibly could be designated an interstate depending on receipt of federal funds: http://itd.idaho.gov/Projects/garvee/D3/default.asp

I think it's a good idea, and one long overdue. Unfortunately, because it's so long overdue, the freeway is going in the middle of nowhere. Certainly though this will spur growth in the area. ITD absolutely needs to be more forward-thinking when it comes to freeway construction.

[Boizean]

Originally Posted by Boisebro

the new freeway is new to me.

anyone have a link to an article or map? will this freeway connect with I84, and will it be part of the interstate?

I believe the Initial Phase is now out to bid and construction will commence very soon.

From the ITD website; image from within the pdf http://itd.idaho.gov/Projects/garvee...lternative.pdf

More information about Hwy 16 can be found here http://itd.idaho.gov/Projects/garvee...entalStudy.asp

[Cottonwood]

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005142438

To Boise, nonstop?
Grant could bring daily service, connector to southern U.S.

by KATHERINE WUTZ




This map shows routes proposed for service if the Boise Airport receives a federal Department of Transportation grant. The grant would also provide nonstop service from Friedman Memorial Airport to Boise.
Express graphic by Tony Barriatua


All it would take is $1 million from a federal agency to create a direct flight between Boise Airport and Friedman Memorial Airport—and from Boise to an airport in the southern U.S., say airport officials.

[boi2socal]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005142438

To Boise, nonstop?
Grant could bring daily service, connector to southern U.S.

by KATHERINE WUTZ




This map shows routes proposed for service if the Boise Airport receives a federal Department of Transportation grant. The grant would also provide nonstop service from Friedman Memorial Airport to Boise.
Express graphic by Tony Barriatua


All it would take is $1 million from a federal agency to create a direct flight between Boise Airport and Friedman Memorial Airport—and from Boise to an airport in the southern U.S., say airport officials.

I wouldn't trust SeaPort. It'd be nice if Horizon just added a Seattle-Sun Valley flight via Boise, or better yet Los Angeles-Sun Valley via Boise. Those flights often end up in Boise anyways due to diversions. But this money is just to develop these routes, it is no guarantee. That's if Boise even gets the money. I imagine it would go to a smaller community.

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by boi2socal

I wouldn't trust SeaPort. It'd be nice if Horizon just added a Seattle-Sun Valley flight via Boise, or better yet Los Angeles-Sun Valley via Boise. Those flights often end up in Boise anyways due to diversions. But this money is just to develop these routes, it is no guarantee. That's if Boise even gets the money. I imagine it would go to a smaller community.

I agree with being distrustful of SeaPort. Like BoiseAirport says, the aircraft they fly are far too inefficient for commercial air travel. It seems the only routes they are successful in are subsidized by the Essential Air Service program.

I think the big problem with a BOI-SUN route is the same as a BOI-IDA route. Delta already flies several daily flights to SUN from SLC. Since SLC is a huge Delta hub and Boise is not, passengers will choose connecting in SLC over connecting in BOI. Local traffic between BOI and SUN would be very low since it's only a couple hours drive between the two cities. Business travelers can easily drive to SUN in the morning then be back in BOI before dark.

I am encouraged by local media reports that the Boise Airport is going after grant money to get nonstop service to DFW, Houston or Atlanta...

So forumers.... Given the three options of nonstop to Dallas/Ft. Worth on American, Houston on United or Atlanta on Delta which would do you think would be best and why?

All three are the respective airlines' largest hubs. For me I'd choose DFW. It opens up the option of one-stop connecting to the entire southwest from Boise without much backtracking. It may be the least likely of the three though given that American no longer has a presence at Boise. My second choice would be Houston on United for similar reasoning.

[BOIguy]

Bump

[BOIguy]

Only way for BOI to learn whether it is worthy of funds under this program is to apply. Spokane applied and was successful last year, so why not give it a try? It is a busier airport than BOI.

Of the hubs mentioned, I think ATL has the best chances of happening. AA is already in CH11 and may soon be consumed in Merger Mania while United is sparring with the City of Houston over Southwest's plans to expand internationally at Hobby Airport and is unlikely to add considerable service there anytime soon. DL, on the other hand, operates the World's Largest Hub @ ATL and flew the route nonstop as recently as 2009. While not mentioned specifically, I wouldn't count out US to CLT, as it continues to build its hub there as an alternative to DL's @ ATL.

You can get to many cities in the South Central U.S. via UA's DEN hub. Even smaller markets like Little Rock and Shreveport are served from there. But, hardly any small hubs in the Southeast can be reached with one connection from BOI currently. That would be the key to DL via ATL. And, the international connections to the Caribbean, South America, and Europe from ATL are vast. I read over 80 foreign markets are served nonstop from ATL.

As for SUN, Horizon used to tag BOI service but that's just too much airplane to be successful on such a short route. I wouldn't say don't trust SeaPort. I understand there are reasons why the BOI-IDA service ended that many may not be aware of.

Fingers crossed that BOI is awarded funds under the grant!

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

Seems that was supposed to be the plan according to the Eagle Rd. Master Plan, build medians and limit access. The medians will soon be built but more and more access points are popping up. To ITD's credit, they are right-in, right-out only.

I think I've mentioned this before but when I was in High School, former Eagle Mayor Rick Yzaguirre came to my government class. One astute student asked if he regretted anything from his tenure, to which he replied that he regretted not putting more pressure on ITD to limit access to Eagle Rd.

They bent to the whines of retailers then and continue to do so today. It's very aggravating! Does it really take a huge bite out of business if customers have to overshoot their destination by a quarter mile then backtrack on a frontage road??

The situation CAN still be salvaged by designing more creative intersections like continuous flow at the major points like Franklin, Fairview, Ustick, McMillan and Chinden. ITD needs to build right turn lanes at EVERY access point to allow right turning traffic a place to decelerate from 55mph. They got us into the mess and the best solution they've come up with is an freeway 5 miles to the west.

I grew up in Meridian but moved away when I was in middle school. I was there last summer for a family reunion and I was astounded at the growth since I was a kid. It seems like there are 4 times as many people and businesses there, yet there is no additional transportation infrastructure since I was a small child. All the roads I remember are just wider and there are a lot more stop lights....

[Evo5Boise]

It seriously has been an issue for Boise for a long time. And I try my hardest to figure out why they turned a blind eye to it. I really feel like Boise was SO stuck on trying to stay a small town/city that they thought if they ignored it, well, it would all go away. And, as is obvious, it didn't.

I remember when I visited Hunstville, Alabama. It is similar in size to Boise (though I do believe a tad smaller) and their road infrastructure was amazing to me. I could only think....Why Boise? Why!?

[arkhitektor]

Originally Posted by Evo5Boise

It seriously has been an issue for Boise for a long time. And I try my hardest to figure out why they turned a blind eye to it. I really feel like Boise was SO stuck on trying to stay a small town/city that they thought if they ignored it, well, it would all go away. And, as is obvious, it didn't.

I remember when I visited Hunstville, Alabama. It is similar in size to Boise (though I do believe a tad smaller) and their road infrastructure was amazing to me. I could only think....Why Boise? Why!?

It's not just Boise; it seems like the west, specifically the mountain west has very little urban highway infrastructure. It's not always a bad thing as western cities tend to have higher density than other places- but it's interesting nonetheless. Especially compared to similar sized cities elsewhere in the US. Like how basically every town in Texas the size of Twin Falls has a ring road....

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by Evo5Boise

It seriously has been an issue for Boise for a long time. And I try my hardest to figure out why they turned a blind eye to it. I really feel like Boise was SO stuck on trying to stay a small town/city that they thought if they ignored it, well, it would all go away. And, as is obvious, it didn't.

I remember when I visited Hunstville, Alabama. It is similar in size to Boise (though I do believe a tad smaller) and their road infrastructure was amazing to me. I could only think....Why Boise? Why!?

I know I say this quite a bit but legislatively, Idaho is in a very tough spot. Here's why: The Boise metro area is about 600,000. Idaho's population is 1,500,000. The size of Boise makes it the major player but not quite a majority of the state. Furthermore, Idaho is essentially three zones. The Southwest is anchored by Boise. The Southeast is anchored by Salt Lake City and the North is anchored by Spokane. It's difficult to convince legislators whose constituents may only come to Boise a couple times in their lives to send money to maintain and improve infrastructure here.

I remember living in extremely fiscally conservative East Idaho when GARVEE was announced. People were very reluctant to go into debt to finance projects which were mostly in Boise. Gov Kempthorne had to toss in improvements in Sandpoint and Lava Hot Springs area to appease those in the far reaches of Idaho.

Compare this to states like Oregon, Washington and Utah whose largest cities truly are the hubs of activity for the entire state. It's much easier to drum up funding for a new freeway in SLC since even Utahns from St. George travel there often. Those states have a much stronger spirit of unity than Idaho has.

To me this is the biggest obstacle to progress in Idaho... Any thoughts?

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by arkhitektor

It's not just Boise; it seems like the west, specifically the mountain west has very little urban highway infrastructure. It's not always a bad thing as western cities tend to have higher density than other places- but it's interesting nonetheless. Especially compared to similar sized cities elsewhere in the US. Like how basically every town in Texas the size of Twin Falls has a ring road....

Boise does have a slight geographic disadvantage (though not as bad as some other cities). Downtown was founded with the Foothills squarely abutting to the north, with only the historical North End in between. This makes it impractical for any ring type road around downtown, or even a split in two like I-405 in Portland. Combine that with the fact that almost all of Boise's growth goes west, and you have an imbalance that contributes to the struggles in major infrastructure paths.

If settlers were to start Boise all over again with the hindsight of knowing how 20th century growth would go, you would have started where Caldwell is today. Then you'd have plenty of space in all directions.

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

I know I say this quite a bit but legislatively, Idaho is in a very tough spot. Here's why: The Boise metro area is about 600,000. Idaho's population is 1,500,000. The size of Boise makes it the major player but not quite a majority of the state. Furthermore, Idaho is essentially three zones. The Southwest is anchored by Boise. The Southeast is anchored by Salt Lake City and the North is anchored by Spokane. It's difficult to convince legislators whose constituents may only come to Boise a couple times in their lives to send money to maintain and improve infrastructure here.

I remember living in extremely fiscally conservative East Idaho when GARVEE was announced. People were very reluctant to go into debt to finance projects which were mostly in Boise. Gov Kempthorne had to toss in improvements in Sandpoint and Lava Hot Springs area to appease those in the far reaches of Idaho.

Compare this to states like Oregon, Washington and Utah whose largest cities truly are the hubs of activity for the entire state. It's much easier to drum up funding for a new freeway in SLC since even Utahns from St. George travel there often. Those states have a much stronger spirit of unity than Idaho has.

To me this is the biggest obstacle to progress in Idaho... Any thoughts?

I completely agree with this. Someday, Boise will grow big enough that it becomes what Seattle, Portland, and SLC are to WA, OR, and UT....

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by City Of Trees

I completely agree with this. Someday, Boise will grow big enough that it becomes what Seattle, Portland, and SLC are to WA, OR, and UT....

I agree, we are poised for growth. My concern is that we will always be at a disadvantage politically until either Boise contains the majority of Idaho's population (and therefore a majority of the legislature) OR until the East and North parts of the state get serious about investing in Boise. My guess is the former will win the race. Eastern and Northern Idahoans will continue to only visit Boise once or twice a lifetime for school sports trips...

I know I exaggerate, but I spent several years living in East Idaho and interacting with many natives to the area who have never explored Idaho beyond 100 miles from I-15. Family vacations are to Utah, camping trips are too. Show them a picture of Redfish lake or Sawtooth Mtns, and they shrug their shoulders. My guess is they stay away because ATVs, dirtbikes and snowmobiles are very restricted there. Geez I'm really in a stereotyping and generalizing mood tonight, I need to go to bed before I start offending people!

[City Of Trees]

Originally Posted by isangpogi

I agree, we are poised for growth. My concern is that we will always be at a disadvantage politically until either Boise contains the majority of Idaho's population (and therefore a majority of the legislature) OR until the East and North parts of the state get serious about investing in Boise. My guess is the former will win the race. Eastern and Northern Idahoans will continue to only visit Boise once or twice a lifetime for school sports trips...

I know I exaggerate, but I spent several years living in East Idaho and interacting with many natives to the area who have never explored Idaho beyond 100 miles from I-15. Family vacations are to Utah, camping trips are too. Show them a picture of Redfish lake or Sawtooth Mtns, and they shrug their shoulders. My guess is they stay away because ATVs, dirtbikes and snowmobiles are very restricted there. Geez I'm really in a stereotyping and generalizing mood tonight, I need to go to bed before I start offending people!

Again, completely agree.

Occasionally when I get into discussions on how the GOP dominates the legislature, I respond by saying that the real substantial divide is instead between urban and rural. I don't really want to derail further, but I'm sure I could tie that back to transportation if I wanted to.

[isangpogi]

Thanks for indulging my tangent, back on the topic of transportation, a new site for the Boise Transit Center is being considered. Apparently a site had already been selected on 11th street but Valley Regional Transit has been unable to come to an agreement with the landowner (Tomlinson and Associates). This new site, on state-owned land at 8th and Jefferson would be a much better fit. It's closer to downtown and closer to government offices. It seems the state would have an easier time parting with the land than the private developers at 11th. Here's the article: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2012/0...it-center.html

[Cottonwood]

I like either site but prefer the 11th Street location. Both locations are right in the heart of downtown (about a 5 minute walk apart from each other) and will provide easy access to the rest of the city center. I just don't get what is taking so long.

[Cottonwood]

Here is the link to the ACHD Master Plan released last month. Hill and 36th Streets will get a roundabout in........2017 and many more roundabouts in the future are planned.


http://www.achdidaho.org/departments...ts_by_year.pdf

[isangpogi]

Originally Posted by Cottonwood

Here is the link to the ACHD Master Plan released last month. Hill and 36th Streets will get a roundabout in........2017 and many more roundabouts in the future are planned.


http://www.achdidaho.org/departments...ts_by_year.pdf

Awesome... Roundabouts are a great idea. They are the most efficient way to manage medium-traffic intersections because under ideal circumstances, nobody needs to fully stop. Much better than four way stops.