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  #1  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:04 PM
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What is Vancouver? A response...

On another forum, I asked what people thought of our city as a tourist destination. This is one Berliner's response, and sadly I couldn't agree more.


- relies on natural setting to sell itself as the standalone city is rather generic and unexceptional
- thinks it's world class (it's not)
- laid back (i.e. boring, if vibrant urban culture is your thing)
- nightlife, art scene, culture, urban vibrancy distinctly lacking or underdeveloped
- bland, uninspired architecture (with a few exceptions)
- sprawling suburbia, low population density outside of downtown peninsula (yet some people, apparently, find Vancouver "crowded"...?)
- green...lots of parkland, urban forests etc. and surrounded by nature (the mountains and ocean the city is known for)
- summer brings out the best in people
- the rainy fall/winter season can be depressing
- home to wreck beach (swimming nude in the ocean in the summer can be very therapeutic)
- gay friendly
- an abundance of restaurant/eateries serving good food from every corner of the world
- multicultural
- xenophobia/intolerance has increased in recent years
- poverty and homelessness increased dramatically during the last decade

- generally, as a place to live, rather boring, overrated and full of itself
- a few saving graces that make living here bearable (provided, of course, one leaves the city for at least one month each year...this is a non-negotiable necessity)



That basically sums up the city as an attraction...


And personally, I don't get the whole nature and recreation thing as our main thing. You can do that ANYWHERE in the world.

Sure, we market ourselves as a destination where you could "ski, golf, and sail" all on the same day. But how many people actually go golfing and skiing all in one day?

If you really want a quality skiing experience, go to the interior or Whistler (which btw is NOT a "Vancouver destination").

Basically, we're far too reliant on our natural environment.
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  #2  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:11 PM
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you know, i agree with what this guys says. but whenever i'm in europe or just travelling to long, i always feel so much better coming home. what's that about?
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  #3  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:13 PM
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you know, i agree with what this guys says. but whenever i'm in europe or just travelling to long, i always feel so much better coming home. what's that about?
Home is home...I think most people feel like that after a long trip.
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  #4  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 10:14 PM
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I'd say Vancouver is borderline world class but not quite. It certainly pushes far above cities near it with a similar population in terms of opportunity and draw.

Vancouver's hyperdensity dies off quickly after one leaves the peninsula, but there is still mid-to-low-rise density in some areas and did this Berliner even happen to visit all the massive suburban high rise clusters? The architecture I think is very good in Vancouver, relative to other Canadian cities and American cities. Yaletown can be a bit repetitive, but it's not bland (nothing spectacular either, save a few spots, either). The Olympic Village, for example is very high quality architecture, as is the city's new landmark, Shangri-La. And Vancouver's sprawl is not half as bad as the two Alberta metropolis'. Urban vibrancy? I don't get that comment. Robson, Yaletown, Gastown, Hastings east (though not in ways one would expect), South Granville, Commercial, West End, Broadway west, etc. are all vibrant and interesting.

Everything else is agreeable.
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  #5  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:04 PM
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Comments below in blue.


- relies on natural setting to sell itself as the standalone city is rather generic and unexceptional <<<< We also rely on our hotel and restaurant industry.
- thinks it's world class (it's not) <<<< Who says this? We probably have world class areas, such as our restaurant scene.
- laid back (i.e. boring, if vibrant urban culture is your thing) <<<< Depends on what you're used to. Compared to New York.... yes, we could seem dull, but at least we don't have things thrown in our face everywhere we look - it is laid back here like he said.
- nightlife, art scene, culture, urban vibrancy distinctly lacking or underdeveloped <<<< To be developed.
- bland, uninspired architecture (with a few exceptions)<<<< Then I'd say most modern architecture is bland. Old buildings, pre 50s always look better. Unfortunately we will never have a large stock of those buildings.
- sprawling suburbia, low population density outside of downtown peninsula (yet some people, apparently, find Vancouver "crowded"...?)<<<< I don't see this as a big problem or really that unusual. The city was not born in the same era as like Bruges Belgium...
- green...lots of parkland, urban forests etc. and surrounded by nature (the mountains and ocean the city is known for)
- summer brings out the best in people <<<< This is true.
- the rainy fall/winter season can be depressing <<<< and this.
- home to wreck beach (swimming nude in the ocean in the summer can be very therapeutic) <<<< I have no need for Wreck Beach. Naked men wanting to sell you drugs. No thanks.
- gay friendly <<<< I wouldn't know.
- an abundance of restaurant/eateries serving good food from every corner of the world <<<< Yup.
- multicultural <<<< Yup.
- xenophobia/intolerance has increased in recent years <<<< Seriously? I think 30 years ago was way worse. Try travelling to small town BC... it's worse than here. If Japan is xenophobic, we are perhaps slightly in comparison.
- poverty and homelessness increased dramatically during the last decade <<<< This is true.

- generally, as a place to live, rather boring, overrated and full of itself <<<< Dunno what to say about this. I like living here. Never seriously wanted to move somewhere else. I guess I'm full of it.
- a few saving graces that make living here bearable (provided, of course, one leaves the city for at least one month each year...this is a non-negotiable necessity) <<<< Sure. We all have to get out and see the world.


Also, wtf is this crap about being world class? Who is saying we're world class??? Let's give it a rest.
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  #6  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:17 PM
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(yet some people, apparently, find Vancouver "crowded"...?)
Wow, most interesting to hear.
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  #7  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:18 PM
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Vancouver is World class in a sense. World Class restaurants, Stanley Park, and even the amount of luxury hotels in walking distance of eachother. Plus an hr drive to World Class skiing resort Whistler. definitely not in the same boat as NYC, London, Hong Kong, Paris and other world class cities...but Vancouver does have some world class attributes that rank it up their with some of the big boys...?
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  #8  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Spoolmak View Post
Vancouver is World class in a sense. World Class restaurants, Stanley Park, and even the amount of luxury hotels in walking distance of eachother. Plus an hr drive to World Class skiing resort Whistler. definitely not in the same boat as NYC, London, Hong Kong, Paris and other world class cities...but Vancouver does have some world class attributes that rank it up their with some of the big boys...?
Yes. That is the way I see it too.
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  #9  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:29 PM
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Well, according to a couple Germans who I talked to this summer, they gave a different perspective on what they thought of the city. They had been living downtown for several months this year and from what they told me, they loved the city and loved how modern the buildings in Vancouver looked and preferred it over the cities in Germany. They also loved everything about the culture here in Canada and did not want to go back to Germany.

I believe that their opinion and criticism is more valuable than what that Berliner posted about our city, because these two other Germans were just your average tourists, not some stuck up know-it-all who criticizes every detail about a city whether its valid or not. ( I'm not saying its bad, I'm just saying whats more important to Vancouver is the views and opinions of your average tourist)

Last edited by canucks23; Jul 22, 2010 at 11:47 PM.
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  #10  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:34 PM
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So, in other words, Vancouverites are miserable self-deprecating creatures who wish they lived in Copenhagen.

Tell me something I didn't know

Vancouver is a fun city, if you interact mostly with people who weren't born here.
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  #11  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:37 PM
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^ I can imagine the type of things you do
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  #12  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:40 PM
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Well, I truly believe you have to live Downtown to appreciate all that is Vancouver. I suppose if you lived in the suburbs and were rather unattached and didn't get to do the things everyday that people who live Downtown can do... you may not think Vancouver is any different or better than any other city. But really, the majority of you are plain miserable lol - no wonder BC Bud sales are through the roof.
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  #13  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2010, 11:53 PM
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world class? Not quite yet...

Having visited, and lived in, a few of the world's major cities (and I'm not trying to sound "above it" or "snooty" here, really), there are certain things that make a city world class.

First off, size usually palys a role in it, although there are exceptions: (Stockholm is definitely world class and very sophisticated, but no bigger than Vancouver .... HOWEVER ... it IS the capital of Sweden, which says most of it)....

Most world class cities are the size of Rome or San Francisco on up, and they are often capital cities (which we are not) or major economic centres. (one study says we are, but I found it somehow rather implausible; Seattle is moreso but never made the list)

So economic clout, money, an educated population, and the cultural facilities to serve that population are part of it, as are air connections (look up cities in Wikipedia, check out the airports, and see the number of airlines and destinations; this says a great deal about a city. For example, McCarran Airport in Las Vegas has many more passengers and flights than YVR, but are almost all intra-USA. There may be one overseas destination, two or three if you count Mexico. Las Vegas is in a class by itself, but the airport gives an indication of the type of city it is: not "world class" precisely, but a huge magnet nonetheless).

World class cities are often older than Vancouver, and have a sense of history about them, both in terms of the evolution of the city, and the legacy of historic buildings. Vancouver is a young city with a modest, prosaic history. Not our fault at all!! ... but it doesn't contribute much to the city's character.

World class cities usually have little trouble supporting major arts instutions. Seattle has a renowned opera that runs year-round, and is well supported, a magnificent Opera House, with great classical musicians from the world over, and the Pacific Northwest Ballet. In contrast, not so long ago, the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra had to have a cash injection to avoid going under, the support was so mediocre. That is a really sad, but telling, statement.

Rhetorical question: How do we compare? (Seatlle being in many respects a "sister city")

World class cities are sure of themselves, and don't need to go bragging. Toronto doesn't brag much any more, but in the 1970s and 80s, while "on its way up" the self-boosterism that emanated from there was embarassing.
Vancouver is rather at that "growth spurt" stage" right now, and local politicians spend millions on events (I'm not knocking the events) but whoop and holler, calling Vancouver "The Best Place in The World to Live!!!"

True, our quality of life (cleanliness, safety, public facilities, etc) put us right up there, but other cities are very close: Melbourne, Sydney, Copenhagen ...

A "world class" city can often be judged on the way its citizens dress. Been to Montreal? Need I say more?

World class cities usually have a diverse economic base, and exert a certain economic and/or political clout on the world stage. Does Vancouver? (rhetorical queston: you decide).

Being a "world class" city isn't everything, obviously. But what isn't good is PRETENDING to be a world class city, when one is not. That's rather the equivalent of adolescent boasting.

In the first post, the one by Mr. X, with the remarks of the German tourist, much of what was said was, alas, true.

Some of it we cannot change (like the climate), but some of it we CAN, like getting down off our high-horse, ceasing to be "full of ourselves" (another adolescent characteristic), and getting down to studying other great cities, both big and small, learning from them, and incorporating the best they have to offer wherever and whenever we can.

(Pardon the length of this soliloque, but I had to say what I had to say. Thank you all.)
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  #14  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:00 AM
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Yes. That is the way I see it too.
Me too.

the guys from Berlin, a very upbeat and interesting place with a million more people and history to boot.

For it size and location we are an exceptional city in many ways. Night life is lacking as are some cultural institutions but i don't agree that you can our outdoors activities anywhere - I'm from the UK and when compared to similar sized cities we are much, much more livable here, and most in the US for that matter.

Anyone from New York, London or Berlin etc, will judge Vancouver by a different stick, they do anywhere. When I lived in the UK it was always london this and london that. And as anyone knows, visiting a place is very different than calling it home - good or bad.

Vancouver is on the edge of great things. She's growing up fast. But she's only a teenager is now just being allowed to stay out a bit later and wear makeup.

I know where I'd rather be Berlin or Vancouver.........
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  #15  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:00 AM
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And personally, I don't get the whole nature and recreation thing as our main thing. You can do that ANYWHERE in the world..
No, actually you can't. You can however build nightclubs and galleries etc. anywhere in the world.

I'd be curious to know how old the Berliner in question was? Drinking your face off at some arty undergound club might be fun when you're 25..when you're 35 its a bit sad...when you're 45 its downright pathetic. As to our sprawl..it might seem more attractive to that Berliner when he's trying to raise a family and a yard becomes a little more important than subsisting in a rented 2 room flat (@80-90% of Berliners still rent I believe).
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Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by mr.x View Post
On another forum, I asked what people thought of our city as a tourist destination. This is one Berliner's response, and sadly I couldn't agree more.


- relies on natural setting to sell itself as the standalone city is rather generic and unexceptional
- thinks it's world class (it's not)
- laid back (i.e. boring, if vibrant urban culture is your thing)
- nightlife, art scene, culture, urban vibrancy distinctly lacking or underdeveloped
- bland, uninspired architecture (with a few exceptions)
- sprawling suburbia, low population density outside of downtown peninsula (yet some people, apparently, find Vancouver "crowded"...?)
- green...lots of parkland, urban forests etc. and surrounded by nature (the mountains and ocean the city is known for)
- summer brings out the best in people
- the rainy fall/winter season can be depressing
- home to wreck beach (swimming nude in the ocean in the summer can be very therapeutic)
- gay friendly
- an abundance of restaurant/eateries serving good food from every corner of the world
- multicultural
- xenophobia/intolerance has increased in recent years
- poverty and homelessness increased dramatically during the last decade

- generally, as a place to live, rather boring, overrated and full of itself
- a few saving graces that make living here bearable (provided, of course, one leaves the city for at least one month each year...this is a non-negotiable necessity)



That basically sums up the city as an attraction...


And personally, I don't get the whole nature and recreation thing as our main thing. You can do that ANYWHERE in the world.

Sure, we market ourselves as a destination where you could "ski, golf, and sail" all on the same day. But how many people actually go golfing and skiing all in one day?

If you really want a quality skiing experience, go to the interior or Whistler (which btw is NOT a "Vancouver destination").

Basically, we're far too reliant on our natural environment.
don't let the door hit you on the way out
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  #17  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Yume-sama View Post
So, in other words, Vancouverites are miserable self-deprecating creatures who wish they lived in Copenhagen.

Tell me something I didn't know

Vancouver is a fun city, if you interact mostly with people who weren't born here.
There is a bit of truthfulness to this, but then again people who move countries and cities tend to be more adventures, outgoing, fun and interesting soooo. That is why although I agree with this, I have a feeling most people from anywhere else in the world would also think the same way about their city/country.

I also think the NA culture is sterile and bland which doesnt help.
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Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:07 AM
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No, actually you can't. You can however build nightclubs and galleries etc. anywhere in the world.

I'd be curious to know how old the Berliner in question was? Drinking your face off at some arty undergound club might be fun when you're 25..when you're 35 its a bit sad...when you're 45 its downright pathetic. As to our sprawl..it might seem more attractive to that Berliner when he's trying to raise a family and a yard becomes a little more important than subsisting in a rented 2 room flat (@80-90% of Berliners still rent I believe).
very true - as much as I say the night life is lacking, I in the bottom end of your age range scale

As a grown up, vancouver ticks all my boxes. there are things I would change but it's freaking beautiful here, even if the pubs are crap. I also like being part of a city that is constantly improving and re-inventing itself.

As a side note, home ownership is very rare in Germany.
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  #19  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:11 AM
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don't let the door hit you on the way out
If it did, it would be from the shockwave of the city imploding deeper into smug....

Nature and recreational activities are great, but that's all we're really known for because that's where we put all our attention into while ignoring "man-made" attractions. Not everyone loves the whole natural and recreation scene, not everyone is a die hard outdoors lover. Again, this city severely lacks a variety in attractions (on top of quality and quantity).
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  #20  
Old Posted Jul 23, 2010, 12:26 AM
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As a side note, home ownership is very rare in Germany.
I heard you have to pretty much inherit a home to own one.
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