PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[mikebarbaro]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Ugh. Really, really bad. So cheap. Obviously fake brick stick on panels, that yes, don't match. I mean what are those white seams - caulking? They don't even attempt to convey brick, but more like siding. And those done-to-death awful roof overhangs that jut out here and there. I guess those are the 'style' elements in lieu of actual design. They look like buck teeth. And then they put an 'olde timey' light over the side entrance as if mixing poor imitation 19th century with totally generic current crap is a 'look'.

I'd just like to know when the restaurants/bars are going to open so there's at least something exciting to come out of those buildings.

[photoLith]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Ugh. Really, really bad. So cheap. Obviously fake brick stick on panels, that yes, don't match. I mean what are those white seams - caulking? They don't even attempt to convey brick, but more like siding. And those done-to-death awful roof overhangs that jut out here and there. I guess those are the 'style' elements in lieu of actual design. They look like buck teeth. And then they put an 'olde timey' light over the side entrance as if mixing poor imitation 19th century with totally generic current crap is a 'look'.

The suburban Yinzers and Johnstownians will love it though, especially when they can listen to Toby Keith music at his bar.

[Jonboy1983]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Ugh. Really, really bad. So cheap. Obviously fake brick stick on panels, that yes, don't match. I mean what are those white seams - caulking? They don't even attempt to convey brick, but more like siding. And those done-to-death awful roof overhangs that jut out here and there. I guess those are the 'style' elements in lieu of actual design. They look like buck teeth. And then they put an 'olde timey' light over the side entrance as if mixing poor imitation 19th century with totally generic current crap is a 'look'.

I don't think I'd want that in my community -- and I live in Valley Township, PA, which is the absolute western most part of the Philadelphia urban area...

It is rather dense, you know, for something suburban, but it is rather half-assed in terms of design. This is for part of the North Side that could be considered as an extension of Downtown, and this is how we're developing that part of the city? Wow, the necessary literature in both the comprehensive plan and the zoning ordinance are severely lacking...

If I were on the planning commission and zoning task force out there, I'd be all over a rezoning of the North Side, Strip, and Lower Hill, proposing a CBD extension district, which would include minimum height restrictions as well as design standards to ensure that future developments are providing the best uses for the land they'll occupy...

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It certainly seems ideal for that sort of project.

Is there an existing master/vision plan for this area? Off hand, it seems to me like if they could do bigger projects on the largely empty blocks between Madison and Turtle Way, then infill with smaller projects in the next few blocks to the east, that could be nearly ideal. The new stuff along Madison could be designed to more or less handle the noise etc. from the freeway, and those interior blocks could end up quite pleasant.

I'd also love to a see a deck park over I-279 from around Suismon up to North Street/Spring Garden Avenue. That would further control noise etc. from the freeway, and also serve to help integrate the eastern and western neighborhoods at least a bit better.

Forumer Evergrey is actually a huge Turtle Way fan.

[Muckk]

Originally Posted by photoLith

The suburban Yinzers and Johnstownians will love it though, especially when they can listen to Toby Keith music at his bar.

A friend of mine works at the Bettis grill or whatever it is and he told me Toby Kieth's crap shoot bar pulled out and won't be opening at this location. Of course, none of this changes the fact that the project looks like crap. Sell the wall space to local artists and allow them to paint murals. That's they only way to salvage this blunder.

[photoLith]

So is that moronic Toby Keith bar going in anywhere else? I sure hope not. It will attract the likes of the idiots who attended the Kenny Chesney concert and laid waste to the north side.

[Topher51]

Originally Posted by Johnland

Ugh. Really, really bad. So cheap. Obviously fake brick stick on panels, that yes, don't match. I mean what are those white seams - caulking? They don't even attempt to convey brick, but more like siding. And those done-to-death awful roof overhangs that jut out here and there. I guess those are the 'style' elements in lieu of actual design. They look like buck teeth. And then they put an 'olde timey' light over the side entrance as if mixing poor imitation 19th century with totally generic current crap is a 'look'.

That is not fake brick. It is a steel building with a brick facade. The vertical joints are control joints that are aligned with the ends of the lintels so that when the lintel deflects, the facade does not crack. The control joints are typically filled with a silcone sealant with a backing rod. It's caulk-ish. As for the difference in mortar color... yeah, that looks bad. Someone screwed that up.

[Topher51]

AIA Pittsburgh - 2014 Design Pittsburgh Nominees

http://aiapgh.org/aia-programs-event...-choice-award/

You can cast a vote for the People's Choice Award... I shamelessly voted for one of my own projects, but won't try to persuade you all.

[BrianTH]

It was hard to tell in the original pictures I posted, but those are in fact two entirely different brick mixes. Here is a blowup that makes that a little more clear:



The bottom mix has a variety--some of the bricks are more greenish, others more pale, others a bit darker.

The top mix is all one color, all the same shade. And I don't think they match any of the bricks below--it is a slightly more purple red, to the more orange red below.

The mortar color might be different too, but in person, it is the two different brick mixes that really stand out (in a horrible way).

By the way, you can download higher quality versions of those photos from the links above and pick out a lot more awfulness. Warning--you might not want to eat right before you do that.

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Topher51

That is not fake brick. It is a steel building with a brick facade. The vertical joints are control joints that are aligned with the ends of the lintels so that when the lintel deflects, the facade does not crack. The control joints are typically filled with a silcone sealant with a backing rod. It's caulk-ish. As for the difference in mortar color... yeah, that looks bad. Someone screwed that up.

Yeah, I watched them lay bricks everyday as I sat in traffic on the lower level of the Fort Duq bridge. The brick will look better after a few years of weathering but that mortar is sloppy looking.

[eschaton]

To me one of the worst elements of North Shore place is that "cutout" blank panel space above the windows on the first floor. I know contrasting materials are "in" now as a thing, but it looks more like they fucked up and decided to make the windows lower after the fact than something they actually planned to do.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The classic Art Deco approach would be horizontal, symmetric, and might involve metallic lettering directly applied to gray stone, and/or lit decorative awnings. . . .

Then they are calling for a canopy over the openings to the garage, where the main entrance would be located, so on that canopy you could do some more prominent lit signage. . . .

Of course maybe a real architect/designer could do better, but that is the sort of general approach I think would be appropriate for a building like this.

Random addendum, but I realized I did not necessarily need to go quite as far as New York and China for examples. Namely . . .







Koppers has the same elements I previously identified, and I still think that could be the way to go.

But the Gulf Tower is an interesting variation. I've seen similar signage (which I would describe as metal letters bound by metal rails) on a variety of Art Deco buildings, and using that approach would give you more options.

[Muckk]

Originally Posted by photoLith

So is that moronic Toby Keith bar going in anywhere else?

Surprisingly, I've done little to no research in that regard. I bet a Primanti Bros. would do ok at that location though. I don't have any problems with that eatery. It'll probably end up a frickin' Applebee's.

[RespectCondor]

Originally Posted by Topher51

That is not fake brick. It is a steel building with a brick facade. The vertical joints are control joints that are aligned with the ends of the lintels so that when the lintel deflects, the facade does not crack. The control joints are typically filled with a silicone sealant with a backing rod. It's caulk-ish. As for the difference in mortar color... yeah, that looks bad. Someone screwed that up.

Topher51 is completely correct. I used to lay brick, those are not fake brick panels and his description of why they are there is also correct. As his opinion that it isn't the best look.

I have noticed a number of people talking about mixed materials being "in" right now this is one of the reasons. Personally I think putting a contrasting material in that spot looks better than the brick with silicone solution example on the Northside.

Now how the hell they managed to mess up the order of brick is inexcusable. That shit should get someone fired. Im amazed the continued to work on the building without first getting the correct brick. that makes me think the contractors fucked up the order and not the supplier. amateur hour.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by RespectCondor

Now how the hell they managed to mess up the order of brick is inexcusable. That shit should get someone fired. Im amazed the continued to work on the building without first getting the correct brick. that makes me think the contractors fucked up the order and not the supplier. amateur hour.

As I recall, they originally planned for this to be a two-story building, and then added a third story in response to criticisms. I wonder if that caused their mistake--although that is still completely inexcusable.

Just to make myself madder, here is a fun quote from Continental's page on the North Shore:

http://www.continental-realestate.co...rth-Shore.aspx

At the end of the day, though, perhaps the most important aspect of our responsibility as developer of record for this project is our role as trusted advisor. Much like the 2.4-million sf Waterfront project we developed on the site of Andrew Carnegie’s Steel Works, the North Shore neighborhood is steeped in Pittsburgh history and has a long future ahead. Our collaborative work with the stewards of the real estate involved is a matter of trust and responsibility – as important to us as providing great returns.

And even older:

http://old.post-gazette.com/localnew...hore0529p1.asp

Continental Real Estate Chairman Frank Kass, selected yesterday as the developer for the land between Heinz Field and PNC Park, vowed that the $200 million, 1.2 million-square-foot project would look nothing like The Waterfront. . . . Instead, the 25-acre North Shore project will be built to resemble a tight-knit neighborhood, Kass said, with six- and eight-story buildings of brick and stone to match the architecture of PNC Park. Offices and apartments would fill the buildings' upper floors, retail on the ground floors and parking underneath.

"The best way I can describe it to you is to come back and see it 10 years from now, when it finished and matured," Kass said. "It will look like it has been there for 80 years. That is the feeling we would like to have. . . . We really feel people will cross the bridges day and night to shop and eat and wait for the ball game to start and just be part of the integral life of what is going to be Pittsburgh in the 21st century." . . .

Kass predicted that work on the first building would start next summer and be ready for occupancy by mid 2004. He also predicted Continental would be able to build the entire North Shore project in five years. "What we say we are going to do, we will do," Kass said.

[RespectCondor]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Just to make myself madder, here is a fun quote from Continental's page on the North Shore:

Man that makes my blood boil, but sadly I don't find it surprising that the project devolved.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by RespectCondor

Man that makes my blood boil, but sadly I don't find it surprising that the project devolved.

I was willing to cut them some slack due to the recession, but failing to live up to the building quality you would expect of a new CVS in the suburbs is a bit much to take.

[Minivan Werner]

How does a mistake like that even happen... Most people would be jacked if the brick was wrong on their detached garage.

Can't help but think about Continental originally proposing a 2 story building, and then saying they were feeling "bold" or "ambitious" or whatever the word was, and added a 3rd story. I think they're trolling us.

[Brentsters]

Just rubbing it in, the article about alco's proposed buildings mention how they wanted to buy that land for a higher price and build a tower...and the stadium authority rejected it.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

I think they're trolling us.

It sure feels that way. At a minimum, it is sheer arrogance--they are apparently assuming, probably correctly, that no public figure will dare to call them out, since ultimately criticism of them is criticism of the Steelers and Pirates.