HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 9:27 AM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,986
[Halifax] RBC Waterside Centre | 37 m | 9 fl | Completed

This thread might be a little premature but there has been speculation that the Armour Group will be building an 80,000 sq foot addition on top of some existing historic buildings along Lower Water Street similar to Founders Square.

This cluster of buildings is currently known as Privateers Passage and is currently 50,000 square feet. Founders Square has 230,000 square feet of office space:

__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 9:32 AM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,986
The Armour Group has requested a demolition permit for 1870 Lower Water Street, the small green building shown above:

http://www.halifax.ca/boardscom/hac/...aterStreet.pdf
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 4:57 PM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
This thread might be a little premature but there has been speculation that the Armour Group will be building an 80,000 sq foot addition on top of some existing historic buildings along Lower Water Street similar to Founders Square.

This cluster of buildings is currently known as Privateers Passage and is currently 50,000 square feet. Founders Square has 230,000 square feet of office space:

Hereing this as well, but the site is within the view planes and it could never be built as high as Founders Square. I believe the height limits put it around 9 stories. Regardless, this will be an excellent addition to the area and hope it actually comes true.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 7:25 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,986
The 80,000 square feet implies that it would only in the end be half as tall as Founders Square. I'm guessing they estimated that based on whatever height limitations exist.

I wonder if this development would be heavily fought by the Heritage Trust, etc? They definitely don't want the little wooden building to come down. Presumably that is where the entrance for the new development would go. On top of that, there is the issue that the other buildings are probably going to be reduced to facades.

I'm mixed on the facades but I don't think the wooden building is worth saving, particularly given the fact that it's already surrounded by an empty lot (not sure if the Armour Group owns this or not).

I'm also wondering how the triangle lands idea is coming along.
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 8:12 PM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
The 80,000 square feet implies that it would only in the end be half as tall as Founders Square. I'm guessing they estimated that based on whatever height limitations exist.

I wonder if this development would be heavily fought by the Heritage Trust, etc? They definitely don't want the little wooden building to come down. Presumably that is where the entrance for the new development would go. On top of that, there is the issue that the other buildings are probably going to be reduced to facades.

I'm mixed on the facades but I don't think the wooden building is worth saving, particularly given the fact that it's already surrounded by an empty lot (not sure if the Armour Group owns this or not).

I'm also wondering how the triangle lands idea is coming along.
The Armour Group owns the whole block, including the parking lot.

For sure heritage will stick its foot in, which sucks because it would be nice to see another founders type development seeing how we can;t go up.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2008, 12:52 AM
Wishblade's Avatar
Wishblade Wishblade is offline
You talkin' to me?
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 1,322
Theres too much of a need for office space downtown, and this wouldnt be very tall. I can't see how it wouldn't go through.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2008, 1:24 AM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishblade View Post
Theres too much of a need for office space downtown, and this wouldnt be very tall. I can't see how it wouldn't go through.
Very true, but knowning how the heritage people act around here i can see this being challenged.

Which reminds me, armour had proposed something like 170,000 square feet of office for Queens Landing project, yet that seems to be a dead file.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Jan 28, 2008, 3:06 AM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,986
From ArmourGroup.com:

McCREA PLANS DOWNTOWN HIGHRISE AT HISTORIC PROPERTIES (Nov26/2007 Allnovascotia.com)
Nov. 26, 2007

By Andrew Macdonald

Prominent developer Ben McCrea is looking at building a second Founders’ Square office complex at Historic Properties.

The proposal is mentioned in one paragraph of a five-page report from HRM’s director of community development, written last summer, which recommends against allowing for the demolition of one property on the planned redevelopment.

Paul Dunphy wrote: “Armour Group has stated that it is considering a Founders’ Square type of redevelopment of the adjacent buildings, which have been vacated by NSCAD – and this would require demolition of 1870 Upper Water Street (which Armour owns) because it is an obsolete, wood-framed building that cannot be viably incorporated into the redevelopment.” He said no formal application for a development agreement has been made.

Armour is the major landowner of most of what is considered Historic Properties.

The plans will be controversial. In the early 1970s dozens of historic properties along the waterfront were saved, after a public brouhaha over plans to build a super-highway to the South End container terminal.

McCrea’s ambitious plans would provide new downtown office highrises, which many observers have said are necessary to deal with an influx of financial firms from Bermuda.

Last summer, Armour requested the Heritage Advisory Committee not hold a public meeting over its demolition application, because it would pursue the matter in the courts.

In his report on the proposal Dunphy said that Armour’s rationale that the building at 1870 Upper Water Street does not fit with its redevelopment plans should not be sufficient to justify it being torn down, given it’s in “an important historic area like Historic Properties.”

“This building is an important part of the historical evolution of the Historic Properties waterfront area and is an asset that contributes to the historic character of the area.”

Now, Armour is asking the Nova Scotia Supreme Court to force HRM to lift the heritage designation and order HRM to provide a demolition permit.

If the as yet unscheduled Chambers hearing grants the request, it would mean a public meeting to delist would not be called.

Armour alleges that 1870 Upper Water Street, which it has owned since 1972 via a former interest with FS Industries, had been incorrectly designated a heritage property in 1981 by the old City of Halifax.

The two and a half storey building is known as the P Martin Liquors Building, and is currently home to Sweet Basil, a restaurant owned by Unni Simonsen, part of the Scanway Group.

McCrea was hunting yesterday and not available for comment.

At one point, HRM suggested the developer ask for the deregistration via a public meeting, or wait one year for a demolition application to be heard.

The issue dates to 2006, when McCrea, founder of Armour Group, wrote HRM with what he thought was a mistake in registering the 1870 Upper Water Street property.

“Our company owns a number of registered heritage properties which we treasure and maintain. We do not consider that this property falls into that category,” wrote McCrea in a July 11, 2006 letter to HRM’s municipal clerk.

“Our analysis of the building construction determined that the building, except for the basement, was of recent construction.

“We have indications that the building on the property was significantly changed some time in the early 1900s, and this confirms our opinion that it is more recent construction.”

In an affidavit, McCrea said that he was informed by Maggie Holm, an HRM planner, in the spring of 2006, that the registration of the building was in error.

But last February, Bill Paskett, another HRM planner said the 1981 registration would stand.

“Between 1981 and 1985, all of the buildings in the recommended Historic Properties conservation area were registered as heritage properties, either on their own architectural or historic merit or because they were part of a recommended heritage streetscape or conservation area” wrote Plaskett. He said a representative of the owner, lawyer Hugh Smith, who represented then-owner of the property FS Industries, assented to the heritage designation.

An HRM document from last summer says that FS Industries was aware of the heritage designation, and that it sought council’s permission with renovations it carried out on the property in 2001, including installing new windows.

Armour purchased some of the FS holdings in 2002, while NSCAD University acquired other surrounding properties.

In court documents, Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia president Phil Pacey wrote to McCrea pledging to work with the developer in maintaining the building.

George MacDonald of McInnes Cooper, is representing Armour.
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Jan 29, 2008, 12:06 AM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
from the sounds of that article it looks like a fight is looming. Come on, lets see even 1 new building downtown, regardless of its size. We need new office spaces

Last edited by sdm; Sep 15, 2008 at 6:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2008, 8:19 PM
Haliguy's Avatar
Haliguy Haliguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Halifax
Posts: 969
I read in the paper yesterday that details for this project may be released this week.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2008, 3:09 AM
Jonovision's Avatar
Jonovision Jonovision is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,600
Really?! that would be awesome news!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2008, 3:21 AM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,986
This project is small but could turn out to be really attractive and is exactly what the downtown needs - new office space and adaptive reuse of historic buildings.

I hope we also hear something about the triangle lands eventually.

Another project in the area is the Morse's Teas renovations.
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 11:41 AM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
Plan will fuse history, business
Armour Group chairman outlines redevelopment of heritage buildings
By STEVE PROCTOR Business Editor
Sat. Feb 9 - 6:43 AM

The man behind the creation of Historic Properties and Founders Square is planning a $16-million redevelopment of another series of historic buildings in downtown Halifax.

Armour (Ben) McCrea, chairman of Armour Group, said Friday he hopes to restore and incorporate four heritage buildings in the block between Historic Properties and the Granville Mall into a new 80,000-square-foot eco-friendly office building.

"This will help meet the demand for more office space downtown but at street level still offer the opportunity for retail and food outlets," he said. "It fuses Halifax history and our collective sense of place with the requirements of modern business."

The company has been working with the city on the project for the last 18 months, he said, and the development complies with all city planning standards. The proposal is for nine storeys, which respects the height restrictions under view plane regulations.

The building and lands involved were purchased by Armour Group in 1972 as part of the Historic Properties development. Parts have been occupied by restaurants, but most of the space has been used in recent years by the NSCAD University.

With the college moving to a new home on the waterfront on Terminal Road, Mr. McCrae said the time is right to give new life to the property.

The plan by Andy Lynch of Lydon Lynch Architects calls for the gutting of the interior of the buildings but the preservation of four of five building facades on the block. A new six-storey glass top will be set back from street level to ensure heritage elements are given visual prominence. Infill on vacant lands will incorporate Nova Scotia sandstone

"Right now it is a rabbit warren of empty spaces with varying floor levels that make it impossible to redevelop and offer modern conveniences and meet building code requirements," said Mr. McCrae. "Some people won’t like that I’m only preserving the facades, but the buildings are functionally obsolete and economically unsustainable."

Mr. McRae said the building at 1870 Upper Water St. has to be demolished to make the project viable. Although it is a designated heritage building, he contends it was designated in error. He will try to convince a judge of that in March when he moves to have the designation revoked and get the city to issue a demolition permit.

"It is just something that has to be done in order for us to be able to save the other four buildings."

Stephen Dempsey, president and CEO of the Greater Halifax Partnership, has seen the plans and loves the design.

"There is a debate in the city about the marrying of heritage buildings and commercial enterprise. Mr. McCrae has done it successfully at Historic Properties and at Founders Square, and it looks like he has an opportunity to do it here again."

The project’s 60,000 square feet of office space won’t go a long way to improve the pressing need for more such space downtown, but he speculated tenants would be drawn to the buildings’ heritage nature and green attributes.

Mr. McCrae said energy efficiency is a key part of the design and the project will use seawater for heating and cooling. The target is to use 40 per cent less energy than a conventional project.

Howard Epstein, the Halifax Fairview MLA who joined with several groups last year in appealing city council’s approval of the Twisted Sisters development, said he hasn’t seen the plans but he’s worried such a project might not be in keeping with the character of the area.

"It always depends on the details, but I think something in the six to seven storeys should prevail," he said. "Even if it is nine or 10 storeys, it shows that you don’t need 25 storeys to have a viable development."

The plans have been filed with the city and a development agreement will have to be negotiated before any building begins. Mr. McCrae said he hopes that process can be completed within six months so that construction can begin in spring 2009. He said it will take about one year to complete.

( sproctor@herald.ca)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 12:46 PM
Keith P.'s Avatar
Keith P. Keith P. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,555
I get so frustrated with Howard Epstein and his ilk. To say that the example of a single developent where the owner has held the property for 35 years somehow proves that developments of 6 stories are viable, most certainly does not prove anything about the viability of 25-storey developments on other sites. Every time he opens his mouth Epstein manages to embarass himself and shows how he is unqualified to discuss development.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 7:45 PM
someone123's Avatar
someone123 someone123 is online now
hähnchenbrüstfiletstüc
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 19,986
I can't find a rendering anywhere but the more details I hear the more I like this project. Tearing down 1870 Lower Water and filling in that part of the block up to Morse's Teas is a big net win for the area, and the glass upper floors sound attractive. They'll contrast with the brick and stone lower floors and will tie in with neighbouring buildings like 1801 Hollis.

Let's hope people are able to see the forest through the trees on this one...
__________________
flickr
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2008, 8:08 PM
sdm sdm is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I can't find a rendering anywhere but the more details I hear the more I like this project. Tearing down 1870 Lower Water and filling in that part of the block up to Morse's Teas is a big net win for the area, and the glass upper floors sound attractive. They'll contrast with the brick and stone lower floors and will tie in with neighbouring buildings like 1801 Hollis.

Let's hope people are able to see the forest through the trees on this one...
Haven;t seen the renderings either but know its on target to be first LEED building downtown with a min LEED silver rating and could be the greenest building this side of toronto if they push the building to Gold. Using seawater like historic has is perfect option for a renewable resouce.

Lets hope they allow this project to go, the project meets all mps and height restrictions. Best part is they have a history of doing this type of redevelopment.

However knowing heritage they will fight it. But the project has too many good things to just say no too.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 7:31 PM
Jonovision's Avatar
Jonovision Jonovision is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,600
There was a picture in the paper with the renderings scattered on a table, so they were hard to make out, but they looked promising. Nice and glassy.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 8:03 PM
Wishblade's Avatar
Wishblade Wishblade is offline
You talkin' to me?
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Halifax, NS
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonovision View Post
There was a picture in the paper with the renderings scattered on a table, so they were hard to make out, but they looked promising. Nice and glassy.
Was it part of an article about it? And what paper was it in? I want to look it up.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Feb 10, 2008, 8:04 PM
Jonovision's Avatar
Jonovision Jonovision is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,600
It was part of the article above from saturdays chronicle, but there was no image on the online edition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2008, 1:00 AM
whyteknight's Avatar
whyteknight whyteknight is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 300
sorry to intrude, and I appologize at my crude drawing, but this is what id like to see for that group of beautiful buildings:

Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Atlantic Provinces > Halifax > Halifax Peninsula & Downtown Dartmouth
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 9:36 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.