Quote:
Originally Posted by fredinno
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I think that I have repeated my opinion a few times on the idea of Street-Level LRT for Vancouver so I do apologize if I sound like a broken record. I almost feel like the idea of streetcars in Vancity should be a thread of its own.
So this the thing... With that map that I quoted I do honestly like the idea of streetcars (for lack of a better term) for the downtown peninsula and for the areas that it proposes the streetcar for. In fact I included this kind of surface LRT into a fantasy of my own. However I find that I have a hard time finding an argument for street-level LRT whereas it could just be replaced with more frequent trolley-buses
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In the context of this map, I would assume that everything within the downtown peninsula is all SLGI LRT except for some small bits like maybe by Waterfront station (?).
Point 1 - Capacity
For me, street-level and grade-integrated (SLGI) LRT is a way to address
capacity. An LRT train should be able to carry significantly more people than a standard bus. Just doing basic google searches, the
new Toronto LRT train can hold up to 181 passengers (standing) whereas
an articulated bus can hold up to 98 people (standing)
So already we have our first counter argument against which is PPHPD where I think that it was mentioned on here that buses would out-do LRT for PPHPD? And the point of transit is to move as many people as efficiently as possible.
Please someone correct me about the PPHPD.
Point 2 - Speed
Again, for me, SLGI LRT should address capacity and not speed. I know that SLGI LRT is not going to be faster than a bus and that is fine with me so long as we are all on the same page and understand that LRT is not a
rapid transit solution
(nightmares of the Surrey LRT come to mind here...).
Next counterpoint - why not spend the same amount of money on BRT? The only problem that I personally have with BRT is that I don't think that it has ever been executed well in Canada. Winnipeg's BRT is a disaster and the Rapid Bus program in Vancouver is just a bunch of money to paint some articulated buses with fancy signs. I think that BRT is totally feasible to implement but Canada has a pretty bad track record of doing BRT adequately which isn't a good enough reason to be against BRT but it is something that I do keep in mind.
Point 3 - Route Logistics
With SLGI LRT, the route of the tracks is extremely important since LRT collisions are insanely high. London just had its first fatal collision with LRT and Edmonton and Calgary each have plenty of fatalities of their own as well.
If we were going to go ahead with SLGI LRT in the downtown peninsula then I would personally like to see some grade separation at intersections that have a high collision potential.
My counterpoint against LRT is that if we need LRT grade-separated anyways for safety concerns then why not just build Skytrain?
Point 4 - More Bus Inventory
Trust and believe, once we see the Millennium extension to UBC, we are going to see some great things happening with bus routes across Metro Vancouver.
With an LRT system, it would free up even more inventory so that Translink is able to provide more frequent and better services to further out areas like South Surrey and Langley.
Point 5 - Land Values
There are studies to show that land value go up if LRT tracks are set. And then there are other studies and articles that show that the process of construction is so grueling that it drives away businesses.
Overall, I feel like LRT does make sense for downtown Vancouver and for the Arbutus greenway but it is incredibly hard to make a case for it. I think that it would all come down to the design of it for me. Thankfully we have Toronto to compare to when it comes to a successful streetcar system. And if Vancouver was to go ahead and build a streetcar system (like the one I quoted or the Arbutus Greenway) then I would also expect the system to expand like Toronto's has. I personally think that LRT can address capacity issues where we couldn't build Skytrain to like to the West End
(sorry, but I don't think that a West End Skytrain station is ever going to happen) or through OV up to Senakw.
Sorry to give you guys such a wishy-washy reply. I am definitely in the grey-zone with LRT for downtown Vancouver.