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  #3221  
Old Posted Aug 16, 2017, 3:54 PM
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There is no and. It's a problem even aboriginal people admit to having, though they put it (correctly) within the context of settler-colonialism and the negative affects of the Residential School System. Almost all of the aboriginals involved in severe substance abuse and homicides in Thunder Bay are residential school survivors, or the children of residential school survivors.
It's interesting because we don't see that effect with the generations of Holocaust survivors. There is no doubt that it's all tied to resiliency and whether there are cultural differences in how we approach with and deal with problems and more specifically, trauma. That's why there is an exploding research base on this topic and to study why some people seem to be more resilient (and in the context of races, cultures and communities) while others languish.
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  #3222  
Old Posted Aug 17, 2017, 1:46 AM
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It's interesting because we don't see that effect with the generations of Holocaust survivors.
The only study on intergenerational trauma that I'm aware of, the one that claimed to have "proven" it exists at a genealogical level, was a study of holocaust survivors. The study was flawed, sample sizes were too small and it focused primarily on the genetics of a small and specific group of people in a single specific time and place, but there are some serious issues among the survivors of the holocaust and their descendent, made worse by the conflict in Israel and Palestine. You can't look at Likudniks and tell me that Holocaust survivors and their descendents are "alright".

We also see similar affects among people who have been colonized in other parts of the world, such as Africa, Australia, South America and parts of Asia. To a degree, you see similar effects in some Germans and Japanese as well as a result of their role in WWII.

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There is no doubt that it's all tied to resiliency and whether there are cultural differences in how we approach with and deal with problems and more specifically, trauma. That's why there is an exploding research base on this topic and to study why some people seem to be more resilient (and in the context of races, cultures and communities) while others languish.
But we also exist within a system where an entire group of people has been pushed onto our northern margins and made to live without access to basic health care, let alone "luxuries" (services not funded by OHIP) like mental health.

Society is broken in those communities, and how did it break? By severing an entire generation of kids from their parents and grandparents through the systemic eradication of language and culture at residential schools, combined with the forced isolation of Canada's reserve system and the restrictions to mobility rights they faced in the past.

If you raise a kid without the skills to raise children, and then they raise children without the skills to raise children, those children will not only be neglected, but they'll also go on to raise children without the skills to raise children. Neglect, self harm and despair get passed down from generation to generation while privileged white people constantly tell them its their own fault for being shitty. It's no wonder native children in Canada are the most likely group of people in the world to kill themselves. Look at the quality of live they've been born into. Look at the world we expect them to thrive in, and fault them when they don't.

This is a cycle that has been created. You break this cycle by giving the people in those communities the mental health and addictions treatment they need. If 95% of a community is self medicating because they're traumatized you can't have a society. Instead of trying to lay blame or make ourselves look innocent why don't we put some effort into fixing the problem?
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  #3223  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 10:42 PM
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  #3224  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 2:12 PM
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  #3225  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 3:03 PM
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Interesting how with a fairly high murder and crime rate, most Canadian seem to think Edmonton is safer than Calgary. Most Canadians probably aren't aware of statistics like we are on here, but given how things are going in Edmonton the last few years, I do find this quite surprising.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...rime-rates-dip
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  #3226  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 3:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Interesting how with a fairly high murder and crime rate, most Canadian seem to think Edmonton is safer than Calgary. Most Canadians probably aren't aware of statistics like we are on here, but given how things are going in Edmonton the last few years, I do find this quite surprising.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...rime-rates-dip
That's interesting. My impression would have been that for people who even remotely pay attention to such things, Prairie cities (Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary and Edmonton) are all lumped together as fairly equivalent in terms of crime. And are all seen as slightly "dangerous", at least by Canadian standards.

Of course there is a racial element to these perceptions as well, unfortunately.
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  #3227  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 3:55 PM
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That's interesting. My impression would have been that for people who even remotely pay attention to such things, Prairie cities (Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon, Calgary and Edmonton) are all lumped together as fairly equivalent in terms of crime. And are all seen as slightly "dangerous", at least by Canadian standards.

Of course there is a racial element to these perceptions as well, unfortunately.
I think another factor is how Edmonton flies under the radar for most Canadians. It always amazes me how much more attention we get in Calgary as opposed to Edmonton, and being extremely similar cities that are basically the same sze, you would expect some degree of parity.
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  #3228  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 4:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Interesting how with a fairly high murder and crime rate, most Canadian seem to think Edmonton is safer than Calgary. Most Canadians probably aren't aware of statistics like we are on here, but given how things are going in Edmonton the last few years, I do find this quite surprising.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...rime-rates-dip
Concur, although there has been much/SIGNIFICANT improvements in Edmonton's national perception and appeal in the last few years.
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  #3229  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 4:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
I think another factor is how Edmonton flies under the radar for most Canadians. It always amazes me how much more attention we get in Calgary as opposed to Edmonton, and being extremely similar cities that are basically the same sze, you would expect some degree of parity.
Haha I was going to say, perhaps the reason Edmonton isn't percieved as being as dangerous is that we aren't necesarily percieved at all...
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  #3230  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 4:36 PM
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Haha I was going to say, perhaps the reason Edmonton isn't percieved as being as dangerous is that we aren't necesarily percieved at all...
Yup that's pretty much it I think
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  #3231  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 6:00 PM
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Going to go off topic a bit, but are people in Edmonton ok with flying under the radar and always being in Calgary's shadow?
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  #3232  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 6:19 PM
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Going to go off topic a bit, but are people in Edmonton ok with flying under the radar and always being in Calgary's shadow?
How is Edmonton 'flying under the radar' anymore and hard in your shadow these days. This is not ten or twenty years ago.

Also, as of 2019, Calgary will be in Edmonton's shadow by about .6 of a meter
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  #3233  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 6:33 PM
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How is Edmonton 'flying under the radar' anymore and hard in your shadow these days. This is not ten or twenty years ago.

Also, as of 2019, Calgary will be in Edmonton's shadow by about .6 of a meter
It's purely anecdotal, but I never hear about Edmonton outside sports or politics while Calgary is constantly ranked on the global stage. And we aren't in your shadow by .6m, we are 400m higher above sea level, so we still win
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  #3234  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 6:33 PM
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^^ Edmonton most definitely is still in Calgary's shadow

I know you're paid to shill for the city, and yes it's getting better here, but we ain't no Calgary by any stretch of the imagination
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  #3235  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 7:29 PM
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Going to go off topic a bit, but are people in Edmonton ok with flying under the radar and always being in Calgary's shadow?
From my perspective, I don't think it really matters to the majority of people. I think after Edmonton fell out of being the recognized AB city in the 90s there was a period of self pity and resentment, Calgary comparisons were constant. I do think its still a frustration for those trying to promote the city for business, tourism etc. Otherwise I think the general civic sense in Edmonton has evolved towards indifference to the status game.

Don't get me wrong, I think the City does still like getting some validation from time to time, and generally feels a bit ignored/unappreciated but these days the response is more likely a joke about being ignored as opposed to anger and frustration.
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  #3236  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Interesting how with a fairly high murder and crime rate, most Canadian seem to think Edmonton is safer than Calgary. Most Canadians probably aren't aware of statistics like we are on here, but given how things are going in Edmonton the last few years, I do find this quite surprising.

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...rime-rates-dip
It just shows how stupid these polls are and how they don't reflect reality. Let's ask 2000 Canadians who never travel anywhere and have probably never even visited any of these cities, which cities they perceive as safe and unsafe. Toronto had a negative score despite being one of the safest large cities. It goes to show how much media sensationalism pulls away from reality.
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  #3237  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 7:39 PM
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I have never equated Calgary and Edmonton's crime/murder rates. Edmonton has always had the reputation as being a more dangerous city.
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  #3238  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 8:00 PM
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From my perspective, I don't think it really matters to the majority of people. I think after Edmonton fell out of being the recognized AB city in the 90s there was a period of self pity and resentment, Calgary comparisons were constant. I do think its still a frustration for those trying to promote the city for business, tourism etc. Otherwise I think the general civic sense in Edmonton has evolved towards indifference to the status game.

Don't get me wrong, I think the City does still like getting some validation from time to time, and generally feels a bit ignored/unappreciated but these days the response is more likely a joke about being ignored as opposed to anger and frustration.
Edmonton / Calgary comparisons are inevitable, that's what precipitated the whole discussion here. Just curious how people up there perceive things like this. Thanks for the feedback!

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It just shows how stupid these polls are and how they don't reflect reality. Let's ask 2000 Canadians who never travel anywhere and have probably never even visited any of these cities, which cities they perceive as safe and unsafe. Toronto had a negative score despite being one of the safest large cities. It goes to show how much media sensationalism pulls away from reality.
I agree, just found it relevant to the discussion here based on the tough year Edmonton is having.
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  #3239  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 8:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Calgarian View Post
Edmonton / Calgary comparisons are inevitable, that's what precipitated the whole discussion here. Just curious how people up there perceive things like this. Thanks for the feedback!



I agree, just found it relevant to the discussion here based on the tough year Edmonton is having.
Oh, yes. Interesting for sure. Frustrating too. I'm not a fan of polls to begin with. I was always taught that there is a huge potential for skewed results. I mean, really- who do you think was most likely to respond to this poll? It was likely conducted during the daytime by phone. And who is most likely to: a) be at home; and b) answer their phone. Answer: mostly seniors and stay-at-home parents.
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  #3240  
Old Posted Aug 23, 2017, 9:52 PM
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It's purely anecdotal, but I never hear about Edmonton outside sports or politics while Calgary is constantly ranked on the global stage. And we aren't in your shadow by .6m, we are 400m higher above sea level, so we still win
Just by another metric besides sports or politics, Edmonton is definitely on the stage for world concert tours, we basically get every one now.
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