MLS Season 2012

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

A Canadian soccer league would be a HUGE success.... Oh wait.....[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_League_(1987%E2%80%931992)

Can't argue with history, but the real question is: why would Canadians necessarily be worse at running their own soccer league than Uruguayans or Croatians? Or worse at running their own hockey league than the Swiss or the Finns?

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Can't argue with history, but the real question is: why would Canadians necessarily be worse at running their own soccer league than Uruguayans or Croatians? Or worse at running their own hockey league than the Swiss or the Finns?

I don't think its a matter of being worse or better at running their own league but rather facing reality that we are a sparsely populated vastly spread out country that shares a border with the largest pro sports market on planet earth. Those other countries don't have to overcome such obstacles.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

I don't think its a matter of being worse or better at running their own league but rather facing reality that we are a sparsely populated vastly spread out country that shares a border with the largest pro sports market on planet earth. Those other countries don't have to overcome such obstacles.

Scotland shares an island with a country that has 10 times more people that also happens to have what is probably the best soccer league in the world, and yet there is still a Scottish national soccer league that is very much alive.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

I don't think its a matter of being worse or better at running their own league but rather facing reality that we are a sparsely populated vastly spread out country that shares a border with the largest pro sports market on planet earth. Those other countries don't have to overcome such obstacles.

You mean sparsely populated over a huge land mass like Australia? They have leagues in Australian football, soccer, basketball, rugby, and baseball. Those are just the ones I know of. Canada has 8 million more people than Australia and New Zealand put together.

Having the US next door has been the only obstacle that I can see, but one that Canada has never managed to over come except in football.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by isaidso

You mean sparsely populated over a huge land mass like Australia?

...ya except sans sharing a border with the largest sports market on the planet

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Scotland shares an island with a country that has 10 times more people that also happens to have what is probably the best soccer league in the world, and yet there is still a Scottish national soccer league that is very much alive.

Apples-Oranges. Canada is vastly spread out.
Scotland is smaller than Nova Scotia. If all of our major cities were located in as small of an area things might be different.

[Acajack]

It's always the same excuses, based on conditioning and old habits more than anything else.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's always the same excuses, based on conditioning and old habits more than anything else.

That very well might be true however they are still reality and almost impossible to reverse.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

That very well might be true however they are still reality and almost impossible to reverse.

Like I mentioned in the last part of my post (which you didn't see), we do have a domestic league in football. It was established a century ago, but it does show that a domestic league can be maintained in this country despite having the US next door. Kudos to the NBL for attempting the same thing in basketball. I'm not sure if it will work, but at least they're trying.

[EastVanMark]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Like I mentioned in my post, we do have a domestic league in football so it shows that it is possible.

Certainly is. All you need is a time machine that takes you back 100 years ago when all N. American sports leagues were in their infancy (or didn't exist outright) and Canadian Football was 10X wealthier & reigned supreme over this unpopular experiment known as American professional football with their sparsely attended teams located in tiny towns that needed sponsorship from local factories to remain above water.

In other related news, the Montreal Canadiens used to be the second most popular NHL hockey team for a short time in Montreal. So does that mean that a new team would be able to compete with the Habs today?...cause they would be battling forces that didn't exist long ago.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sweden (same population as Quebec) has a pro hockey league with at least a dozen teams. Finland (half the population of Quebec) has a pro hockey league with at least a dozen teams as well.

You are aware of the Canadian Hockey League, right?

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Scotland shares an island with a country that has 10 times more people that also happens to have what is probably the best soccer league in the world, and yet there is still a Scottish national soccer league that is very much alive.

Um, no it isn't. The Scottish Premier League has all of two competitive financially-viable teams, one of which is in the middle of huge ownership headaches. Go to the UK and you'll find that most people think the SPL ought to just outright disband and merge Celtic and Rangers into the English system.

Just because these places happen to have soccer leagues dosen't mean that the product they put out is any good or that it's financially-secure. Why you would want Canada to piss money down the drain to put together a league nobody would want to watch confuses me, honestly. As relatively small as MLS is compared to other North American leagues, it offers the financial stability and relatively-decent talent pool needed to grow interest in the game that simply would not exist if Canada tried to do something like this on its own. If that means 'sharing' a league with the US, I'm more than willing to accept it - sports are hardly the only thing Canada relies on the US for anyway. Intentionally putting out a bad product simply out of nationalism isn't going to get people interested in soccer, full stop.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

You are aware of the Canadian Hockey League, right?

It's not pro.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

If that means 'sharing' a league with the US, I'm more than willing to accept it - sports are hardly the only thing Canada relies on the US for anyway. Intentionally putting out a bad product .

But why would it necessarily be a "bad" product? This is a good example of the mindset (inferiority complex) I am talking about.

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

simply out of nationalism isn't going to get people interested in soccer, full stop.

I am not exactly a Canadian nationalist, just so you know. I just think it is dumb to run a country's pro sports this way, and I think it has a negative effect on the development of talent to have so few pro teams across the country in so many important sports .

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EastVanMark

In other related news, the Montreal Canadiens used to be the second most popular NHL hockey team for a short time in Montreal. So does that mean that a new team would be able to compete with the Habs today?...cause they would be battling forces that didn't exist long ago.

I know it will never happen, but I think the Canadiens, the Maple Leafs, and the other existing NHL clubs should be part of an all-Canadian league along with other cities like Quebec City, Halifax, Hamilton, London, Victoria, etc.

BTW, I do know this will never happen, but it's not because of a greater, inexorable force, but rather as I said before, because of habit, conditioning, mindset and national inferiority complexes.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Acajack

But why would it necessarily be a "bad" product? This is a good example of the mindset (inferiority complex) I am talking about

Who exactly is going to play in this hypothetical league? Where's the deep talent pool of soccer players in this country that is going to fill out the rosters? Considering the kind of international performances put up by the absolute best starting XI the country has to offer, the quality of the talent that would be needed to fill up X number of teams would be atrocious. To say nothing of the virtually-nonexistant financial offerings compared to the States, anyone with a decent amount of talent is just going to go elsewhere for a larger paycheck anyway. Even MLS' on-field product is considered weak by European standards, trying to source talent on a national level for an all-Canada league would be exponentially worse. Who is going to want to pay to watch godawful soccer?

You can talk about inferiority complexes and whatever all you want, the money and the talent to make it anywhere close to workable do. not. exist.

I am not exactly a Canadian nationalist, just so you know. I just think it is dumb to run a country's pro sports this way, and I think it has a negative effect on the development of talent to have so few pro teams across the country in so many important sports .

Development of talent comes from growing interest in the sport to convince younger players to stick with the game instead of moving over to something different. That's not going to happen when you have teams of players who are barely good enough to avoid tripping over their own cleats being paid so little they need to take up second jobs playing in front of a few dozen people a night. You grow interest in the sport by having a reasonable level of talent and above all recognizable figures to promote as a major draw. You also do it by marketing it in the areas where there's the greatest potential to develop interest - that is to say, large cosmopolitan (and I stress cosmopolitan) urban centers like Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto. If nobody in Calgary or Saskatoon cares enough about soccer to make any kind of grassroots effort to acquire a team, what's the point of trying to force a soccer team onto them? People aren't just going to magically tune in because the content happens to be Canadian, if it worked that way the CBC would be the most successful station in the country right now.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Who exactly is going to play in this hypothetical league? Where's the deep talent pool of soccer players in this country that is going to fill out the rosters?

Where did I say that the players on the teams would all be Canadian?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Development of talent comes from growing interest in the sport to convince younger players to stick with the game instead of moving over to something different. That's not going to happen when you have teams of players who are barely good enough to avoid tripping over their own cleats being paid so little they need to take up second jobs playing in front of a few dozen people a night. You grow interest in the sport by having a reasonable level of talent and above all recognizable figures to promote as a major draw. You also do it by marketing it in the areas where there's the greatest potential to develop interest - that is to say, large cosmopolitan (and I stress cosmopolitan) urban centers like Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto. If nobody in Calgary or Saskatoon cares enough about soccer to make any kind of grassroots effort to acquire a team, what's the point of trying to force a soccer team onto them? People aren't just going to magically tune in because the content happens to be Canadian, if it worked that way the CBC would be the most successful station in the country right now.

We should talk in 20 years (when Canada will certainly still have just the three MLS clubs in the three largest cities) and see how many World Cups Canada has taken part in by then.

[CorbeauNoir]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Where did I say that the players on the teams would all be Canadian?

Oh I see. So this is all hinged on being able to magically outbid MLS for remotely-decent foreign talent then.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by CorbeauNoir

Oh I see. So this is all hinged on being able to magically outbid MLS for remotely-decent foreign talent then.

And MLS can't compete with the English Premier League and Serie A

And the Australian A-League can't compete with MLS and the French Ligue 1

And so on, and so on. Where does it friggin' end?

Maybe just the top 10 big cities in the world should join the English Premier League, and everyone else can just be contented to watch soccer on TV?

Although, wait a minute. No one else in the world thinks this way. Just Canadians.

When it comes to pro sports, the U.S. is Spike and Canada is Chester:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgm3-aHwfuY