Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[mcj]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Yeah just imagine how Translink literally dumped a flood of buses on the Broadway Corridor for the B-Line until they had the funding and business case to fund a rapid transit extension.

When the FVX becomes the busiest bus route in North America, then the Valley can wait a few decades after that point to get rail, but only half of it at first, gonna need to wait another decade at least for the second half.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Just for the record, I'm not the one saying that the focus of the Township of Langley's motion is too narrow. UBCM and LMLGA are saying that the focus of the Township of Langley's motion is too narrow. The people who have much more power over this sort of thing than you and I are saying the focus is too narrow.

Of course, UBCM and LMLGA may have their own agenda and against this particular proposal. From how I see it, especially when it comes to the possibility of connectivity, it isn't narrow at all.

Maybe the Unions can't make enough money out of this?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Says the poster siding with the people who oppose the Vancouver Plan, Broadway Plan, UBC SkyTrain, Langley SkyTrains and the Jericho Lands. If they're all on one side of the argument, it's the wrong side for urbanism.

You're so mistaken and misguided here. I'm not opposed to any of those, but want most of those you stated to be even grander. Remember how you opposed buildings of 50-70 stories to be along Broadway Corridor but want to have structures reaching max out at 40? Guess what, this may be a possibility now with the ABC government.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Except GO corridors take people to where they want to go. That's not the case with the Lower Mainland:

This is a lie.

See this:

Originally Posted by Vin

We can create dedicated commuter train lines beside existing freight lines for the busiest routes. It takes commitment.

Also discussed many times: it is not true that "our rail lines travel is not where passengers want to go".

In fact, south of the Fraser, most town/city/industrial centres with high concentration of population or work/services have railway lines that run right through them. Hope, Chilliwack, Abbotsford, Fort Langley, Walnut Grove, Bridgeview (Surrey).

Of course, north of the Fraser, we have Mission, Maple Ridge, Pitt Meadows, Port Coquitlam, Coquitlam Central, Port Moody, Brentwood Town Centre (Burnaby), New Westminster and Vancouver proper. Some of the mentioned are already currently served by WCE but with lots of room for expansion.

I am not even including Richmond, White Rock, Londsdale Quay (North Vancouver) and Ambleside (West Vancouver) which can easily have commuter trains running along non-busy freight lines, as well as stations that can be conveniently located at the town centres.

Therefore, it is an utter lie to say that our rail does not serve where people want to go. Even if passengers want to go further from these town centres, they can always opt to get there with an efficient and reliable shuttle bus service (funding can be transferred from long-distance buses to such services) in the immediate districts, or even via car-share services such as Evo or Modo around the stations. In fact, our railway lines can serve way better than Toronto, but only if we, as well as the politicians, have the heart and will to move this forward.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Yes, I think you're right. In Toronto, they seem to follow the philosophy of Fred Astaire: "Do it big, Do it right, and do it with style." Here, it's the opposite: "keep it small, keep it under-built, and keep it folksy."

Definitely can't disagree with that! You used to live in France and you know what we are talking about here regarding commuter rail.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Of course, UBCM and LMLGA may have their own agenda and against this particular proposal. From how I see it, especially when it comes to the possibility of connectivity, it isn't narrow at all.

Maybe the Unions can't make enough money out of this?

Lol. The UBCM isn't a trades union. They represent all the BC Municipalities. They're saying a theoretical train in the Fraser Valley isn't an issue for the whole of BC to debate.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

They're already planning for the future - it's called the Fraser Valley Express, and its bus lanes are under construction as we speak. Gotta walk before you can run... or in the case of the interurban, limp with crutches.

Oh look! They are expanding HWY 1 such that the median boulevard is almost gone! Well, there goes your "most desirable location for a commuter rail corridor".

It is the dumbest idea to keep widening the highway. In no time, it will be congested once again. with or without the bus lane.

Originally Posted by Changing City

Lol. The UBCM isn't a trades union. They represent all the BC Municipalities. They're saying a theoretical train in the Fraser Valley isn't an issue for the whole of BC to debate.

Thanks for the correction but our topic is about the connectivity of the proposed Fraser Valley railway by Township of Langley. A project always starts off from a theory or concept. It involves the whole of BC if funding comes from the Provincial government or various municipalities.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

- snip -

Condon and Vander Zalm don’t want any of them at all. They want cute little villages and toy streetcars, the opposite of "grand." If they’re on your side, maybe it's the wrong side.

Not without rewriting the Broadway Plan, they’re not. ABC is proving to be much more timid than the Stewart council in this regard.

---

No, THAT’S the lie. You list the aforementioned town centres as if they’re all along one direct railway just waiting for passenger service... as opposed to several crooked ones, each monopolized by freight, many completely out of the way, some not even able to accommodate extra stations (Brentwood, New West, Lonsdale, etc are off the table).

Of the remainder, Richmond doesn’t want to go to New West, Ambleside doesn’t want to go to the Northshore Auto Mall or the grain elevator, and Chilliwack definitely doesn’t want to go to Huntingdon or Matsqui. The freight lines were the answer last century, but now they're just another problem.

Originally Posted by Vin

- snip -

The Langley SkyTrain makes do with an equally narrow strip, and veers off to the sides if necessary - I'm not worried.

And it's an equally dumb idea to spend two highways' worth of funding on a glorified tourist bus pretending to be a commuter train. All the added highway capacity is going to HOVs and buses, which people actually use.

---

Then I suppose all of BC should vote on whether we build the UBC extension?

(crickets)

Didn't think so.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Thanks for the correction but our topic is about the connectivity of the proposed Fraser Valley railway by Township of Langley. A project always starts off from a theory or concept. It involves the whole of BC if funding comes from the Provincial government or various municipalities.

So what did "Maybe the Unions can't make enough money out of this?" have to do with anything?

The Province funds all sort of transit infrastructure across BC without any input from UBCM or LMLGA. You were the one that introduced them into the conversation, based off the Township of Langley suggested motion. You, and the Township of Langley, were not persuasive. The fact that the Province only published the study on rail after a freedom of information request suggests they're not persuaded of the benefits of trying to introduce passenger trains on the freight line either.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

So what did "Maybe the Unions can't make enough money out of this?" have to do with anything?

The Province funds all sort of transit infrastructure across BC without any input from UBCM or LMLGA. You were the one that introduced them into the conversation, based off the Township of Langley suggested motion. You, and the Township of Langley, were not persuasive. The fact that the Province only published the study on rail after a freedom of information request suggests they're not persuaded of the benefits of trying to introduce passenger trains on the freight line either.

And the province is "always right", huh? There is a reason why we are rather backward. If they can't explain why this isn't a good idea, people have the right to continue criticizing their decision. It seems that the best solution right now is to keep expanding and widening roads all over, and doing the "same ol" (50s to present).

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

And the province is "always right", huh? There is a reason why we are rather backward. If they can't explain why this isn't a good idea, people have the right to continue criticizing their decision. It seems that the best solution right now is to keep expanding and widening roads all over, and doing the "same ol" (50s to present).

You're the one hoping the province will do this. They're not. If you can't explain why this is a good idea, people have the right to continue criticizing your decision - zweisystem/Rail For The Valley has been trying for decades, and the rest of BC just keeps laughing.

Originally Posted by Changing City

... The fact that the Province only published the study on rail after a freedom of information request suggests they're not persuaded of the benefits of trying to introduce passenger trains on the freight line either.

This - if it were a thing being considered, they'd've published it right off the bat.

[GenWhy?]

Last time I heard, the Province, TransLink, Fraser Valley Regional District, and BC Transit already approved a transit Vision for express bus and some BRT and will revisit the strategy some time in the 2030s?

The Valley invests (locally) the least in transit and has the lowest ridership numbers in the region, I believe.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by GenWhy?

Last time I heard, the Province, TransLink, Fraser Valley Regional District, and BC Transit already approved a transit Vision for express bus and some BRT and will revisit the strategy some time in the 2030s?

The Valley invests (locally) the least in transit and has the lowest ridership numbers in the region, I believe.

Do you mean the lowest ridership numbers in the Province? The Fraser Valley is it's own region.
Here's the stats though, barely above Whistler & Prince George for ridership and well below Kelowna, Nanaimo, and Kamloops despite having a much larger population than any other BC transit region in BC except Victoria.

Edit: The Fraser Valley would actually need to quintuple it's ridership to reach the ridership of the 99B-Line alone. (Using 2022 numbers since that's what BC transit has listed there still)

[Migrant_Coconut]

It's probably best to also rework Abbotsford and Chilliwack's craptastic bus networks first. Gotta fix transit within the city before you even think about transit going out of it.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by mcj

Do you mean the lowest ridership numbers in the Province? The Fraser Valley is it's own region.

Was thinking but not typing "the Lower Mainland". I paraphrased a report I was reading from those government bodies I listed.