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  #61  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2018, 1:35 PM
Crawford Crawford is offline
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
brownstone brooklyn is 'middle class' in the new york context
As a resident of such an area (Park Slope, near Grand Army Plaza), I would not consider brownstone Brooklyn remotely middle class. My neighbors tend to be quite wealthy or poor/subsidized.

I have a number of very high profile celebrities within a few blocks, as well as subsidized housing for the very poor. Doesn't sound like typical middle class America. In brownstone Brooklyn your kids are potentially playing with the kids of Daniel Craig and Matt Damon, as well as the kids of the poorest of the poor.
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  #62  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2018, 1:50 PM
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I would not consider either to be traditionally urban. They have wide streets, large building footprints, extensive parking accommodations, and the like.

Urban neighborhoods need fine-grain. Obviously all vibrant cities have "new urban districts" like Pearl, Mission Bay, Boston Harbor, etc. but they aren't traditionally urban. They're blocky buildings, quiet streetscapes, and suburbanized retail serving a homogenized demographic. There are no corner shoe repairs or tenement holdouts.
you can’t have tenement holdouts in new districts unless i’m not understanding what you mean, and shoe repair is only a thing (that i know of) in long established office districts or wealthier urban or old suburban neighborhoods in unrenovated commercial storefronts. the economics rarely line up for new construction.
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  #63  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2018, 1:52 PM
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lots of huge, miles wide new construction neighborhoods with walkable from scratch commercial across the us, even in missouri...


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  #64  
Old Posted Aug 12, 2018, 10:37 PM
memph memph is offline
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I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Certainly Toronto and Vancouver do not have typical middle class Canadian families living in city cores. It tends to be affluent or subsidized households as in U.S.

How is this meaningfully different from Canada?

I think you're wrong about Europe too. In major European cities, the cores tend to be very affluent, with few regular families and fewer children than the norm. I doubt the profile of residents in the cores of say, Paris, Vienna and Rome, are meaningfully different than those in prime U.S. cities.

Of course you see some kids in such centers. You see lots of kids in Manhattan and Brownstone Brooklyn too. But still not as common as in some typical McMansion sprawlburb, and the kids in Manhattan will tend to be in affluent or subsidized families.
I think Canada's big cities still do ok. In Toronto's core, low income families aren't all subsidized, some of them just live in older apartment buildings that are less appealing than rowhouses or new condos, there's tons of familiar in St James Town. The historically Italian and Portuguese areas west of downtown Toronto still have a decent amount of middle class families. East of the Don River leans somewhat affluent but it's still mostly upper middle class, definitely not as affluent as North Toronto.

Vancouver has probably the lowest (spatial) income segregation of any major Canadian city. I'm not sure what still qualifies as the core with Vancouver but the east and south of the city proper are about as middle class as it gets in the Vancouver area.

The mid-sized Canadian cities have more segregated cores. Outside downtown, Calgary is pretty wealthy throughout. Hamilton's core is mostly low income, same with Winnipeg, with a few higher income pockets. Ottawa is a mix of low and high income neighbourhoods with little in between. Edmonton is similar though not quite as extreme as Ottawa.

In the US it does seem like Portland, Seattle and even the Bay Area work. Maybe Denver too.
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