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  #8501  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 1:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
I don't agree. The ROM Crystal addition is a part of Toronto's current boom, and I would guess that more people in Toronto would recognize it than the fountain:



https://www.azuremagazine.com/articl...0-years-later/
Another one that I just thought was older, I guess. A lot of the Gehry/Libeskind/etc-designed stuff is pretty iconic. I was just thinking of these as being perhaps "one boom ago". I'm not exactly sure when a lot of these buildings were built or when the "current boom" is considered to have started.
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  #8502  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 1:22 AM
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Definitely think of this one as iconic, didn't think of it as being "of this boom" (not very familiar with OCAD's/this building's history)
It's been a very long boom. This was completed in 2004, when boom was well underway (though the 200+ metre stuff didn't start coming online until 2009).
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  #8503  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 1:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
Another one that I just thought was older, I guess. A lot of the Gehry/Libeskind/etc-designed stuff is pretty iconic. I was just thinking of these as being perhaps "one boom ago". I'm not exactly sure when a lot of these buildings were built or when the "current boom" is considered to have started.
The ROM Crystal was completed in 2007. "One boom ago" implies there was a break somewhere in between. The boom has actually been accelerating steadily since 2003. The city brushed off the Great Recession without skipping a beat. See here: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=82234901 (100 metre towers only)
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  #8504  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 1:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ramako View Post
"One boom ago" implies there was a break somewhere in between. The boom has actually been accelerating steadily since 2003. The city brushed off the Great Recession without skipping a beat. See here: http://skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?searchID=82234901 (100 metre towers only)
Isn't it nevertheless a bit odd that the most exceptional examples are from 2004-2008 though? You said that the boom has been accelerating, so there should be more examples like the ROM crystal or the OCAD building from more recent years.

I think we are in a period with a private-sector real estate gold rush but relatively little public direction and vision. Vancouver is the same as or maybe worse than Toronto; maybe somewhat better urban design but similarly lacking public investment. Not zero public investment but not commensurate with the amount of money sloshing around in the real estate market.

Rather than comparing cities, maybe we should compare time periods. Look at, say, the 1960's or the 1970's and you will find that nearly every city built something more ambitious during those past decades, even the cities that have grown a lot in the past 50 years. We might not like the 60's brutalist office complexes and public buildings but modern projects are much more conservative.
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  #8505  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 1:42 AM
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Is something iconic simply because it has received fame, or because it's deserving of fame?
I'd argue yes if it's also emblematic.

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Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
And is something that's deserving of fame iconic even if it isn't famous?
I'd argue no. Being well known is a pre-requisite imo. I'd qualify that by saying that I consider the Banff Springs Hotel iconic even though it's not well known beyond our borders.
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  #8506  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 1:50 AM
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Isn't it still a bit odd that the most exceptional examples are from 2004-2008 though? You said that the boom has been accelerating, so there should be more examples like the ROM crystal or the OCAD building from more recent years.

I think we are in a period with a private-sector real estate gold rush but relatively little public direction and vision. Vancouver is the same as or maybe worse than Toronto; maybe somewhat better urban design but similarly lacking public investment.

Rather than comparing cities, maybe we should compare periods. Look at, say, the 1960's or the 1970's and you will find that nearly every city built something more ambitious during those past decades, even the cities that have grown a lot in the past 50 years.
There are only so many large public institutions like museums that can be the beneficiaries of these kinds of ambitious philanthropic campaigns, so it's no surprise that these additions came early in the boom. The Sick Kids office building on Bay and the Four Seasons Centre for the Performing Arts are other examples.

I think we're seeing some of the private money at work with the The One, Mirvish + Gehry, the Bjarke Ingels project on King West, CIBC Square, One Yonge, 160 Front, The Hub, Yonge Street Living, One Yonge, Mirvish Village Redevelopment, etc. These are all very prominent and very expensive projects, almost all by star international architects.

But I agree on the whole, it seems like the '60s and '70s saw more ambitious everywhere generally. I can only begin to speculate on why that is.
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  #8507  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 5:24 AM
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  #8508  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 12:56 PM
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  #8509  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2018, 11:20 PM
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  #8510  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 12:31 AM
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  #8511  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 12:54 AM
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  #8512  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 1:28 AM
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Just the sign... the store is gone.
There is still one in Belleville.
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  #8513  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 6:06 AM
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Vancouver's only gotten a couple iconic towers in this boom (Vancouver House and Trump Tower), but will be quickly tripling its roster with Kengo Kuma, the Butterfly, the jenga tower, and 400 W Georgia. Also has it pretty good in terms of getting architecturally significant tower additions (West Pender Place, Jameson House, Woodwards, Carina/Callisto, the Flatiron, Shangri-la, and MNP which was a treat since it snuck up out of nowhere, for a plaza no one thought anything could fit on, and was finished 3 years after the first render came out.

No new iconic towers in Toronto besides Absolute world, but I like EY tower, Rivercity 3, the Selby, and, am a huge fan of E-condos. I want to like Harbour Plaza, but the balcony-patterns market is beyond saturated now.
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  #8514  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Hali87 View Post
Would it be wrong to suggest that the Dog Fountain is more iconic than any single building built in Toronto during the current boom? Or maybe the TORONTO "letters"? The Regent Park redevelopment is one example of a development there that captures part of the current zeitgeist (for better or worse), although I'd hesitate to call it "iconic" in the sense of "recognizable structures".

In Halifax the current boom has resulted in the Central Library and the Nova Centre, both of which are actually pretty iconic in both the "recognizable building" and "captures part of the zeitgeist" ways. Before these buildings we had Purdy's Wharf and the Citadel/Town Clock, but that was about it as far as icons go. I'm not sure the Nova Centre would be considered iconic if we were starting with the kind of cityscape Toronto has, although I think the library still would be.

Across Canada, we've also got the CMHR and True North Square in Winnipeg, Remai Modern and River Landing in Saskatoon, new arena in Edmonton, The Bow, Peace Bridge, and Telus Sky in Calgary (not sure whether their new library and that big new music centre are considered iconic, but I'd lean towards yes), the BC Place overhaul, Vancouver House, and Woodward Building in Van, as well as a few others I'm probably forgetting. I'm sure some of these would be considered iconic if plunked down in Toronto but others would not. There are probably Toronto equivalents of some of these projects that get lost in the noise. The "highrise with a small Edwardian house as part of its podium" is what I think of as being iconic of today's Toronto as far as architecture goes, but more the general concept than any specific building.

Montreal has a disproportionate number of iconic buildings from the mid-century, like Habitat, the Olympic Stadium, and all the weird relics left over from Expo.
With the exception of CMHR and the Vancouver buildings you listed, I've never heard of any of these "iconic" buildings you sounded off on. In the meantime, you're completely forgot about the ROM, AGO, OCAD, Dundas Square and probably a few others in Toronto.

You are right about things getting lost in the noise - I go back to Toronto only once a year now, and it seems like every year there's a dozen new high rises of note that have gone up. A good chunk of them are just as noteworthy as anything else that goes up in Canada.
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  #8515  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 9:38 AM
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With the exception of CMHR and the Vancouver buildings you listed, I've never heard of any of these "iconic" buildings you sounded off on. In the meantime, you're completely forgot about the ROM, AGO, OCAD, Dundas Square and probably a few others in Toronto.

You are right about things getting lost in the noise - I go back to Toronto only once a year now, and it seems like every year there's a dozen new high rises of note that have gone up. A good chunk of them are just as noteworthy as anything else that goes up in Canada.
Again:

- I was thinking mostly about things that have been built within the last few years (how long is a "boom" before it's just "the new normal"?). Depending on the timeframe yes Toronto has built tons of iconic stuff. For example everything you just mentioned there. Yup I'd consider those all iconic.

- I'm not super familiar with the construction dates of most buildings in Toronto (I'd honestly thought that OCAD building was from the 90s - not in a bad way).


I'm surprised that you've never heard of any of these other buildings. I learned about all of them through SSP, they all come up pretty often in the forums. They're probably worth checking out if you haven't heard of them. Maybe L Tower or whatever is "better" than some of them but I was thinking more about how they relate to their own cities, how they stand out, the amount of attention they get in architectural circles, etc. For example the Halifax Central Library is widely considered one of the best buildings built that year in the world. It won national and international awards and was included in various architectural top-10 lists over the past few years. Maybe these things don't get much attention outside Halifax though. The Peace Bridge is also quite famous (I'd be very surprised if it hasn't been nominated for any major awards). Remai Modern maybe a bit less so, but as far as recent buildings from Saskatoon go it seems like a fairly big deal (edit: just noticed you're from there lol)

I also tend to read the Canada threads but not the Toronto/Ontario subforums so there's that too.

Last edited by Hali87; Aug 14, 2018 at 9:54 AM.
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  #8516  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 1:08 PM
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  #8517  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 1:34 PM
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  #8518  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 2:27 PM
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  #8519  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 9:24 PM
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  #8520  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2018, 9:26 PM
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This is the most impressive picture I've seen of the Ice district and Stantec.
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