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  #321  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 2:26 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Originally Posted by macgregor View Post
I think that the situation in New York City is worth noting, especially since that city has similar geography to Halifax. The NFL Jets football team was trying to build a new “West Side Stadium” in Manhattan but failed for several reasons. Both their existing and future stadiums are not in a central location, but in another state. But realistically, the stadiums in East Rutherford, New Jersey are quite close to Manhattan. I went to a basketball game at the Izod Centre (just beside the football stadium) and found that the city had set up convenient event buses from the main bus terminal downtown. However, from what I could tell, there were no nearby locations for pre/post game food or drinks (excepting tailgates).

For my two cents, I would prefer to see the stadium on the peninsula. It appears that Young/Windsor is the best choice for transit links, highway access and nearby “amenities”. However, a lot of the other proposed locations could me made to work quite well. In some of these locations there may be traffic woes or there may be no amenities. No location will be perfect. We should be pragmatic and work to ensure that Halifax builds a stadium. I think proponents like us can help the city by brainstorming the many possibilities of locations. Even if the stadium isn't in our preferred location, I and many others will still be thankful when it is built.

Also, I think that 15,000-25,000 seats would be sufficient. I support starting small and expanding later.
What do you think of this site close to the harbour in the Via Station area? I think that it is owned by the Halifax Port Authority and a stadium would fit with room room spare. Part of it has already been paved over. I like it. Hopefully a developer won't speak up for this land and then sit on it for 10 - 15 years.


Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 29, 2009 at 3:15 AM.
     
     
  #322  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 4:05 PM
BravoZulu BravoZulu is offline
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Fenwick that is the exact site I was thinking of, but discounted as being too small. You've proven me wrong (I'm quite happy about that). This is now the number one spot in my mind. Love the idea of a train bringing out of towners in too, you could start in NB and finish right at the stadium, with a hotel nearby seems perfect to me!
     
     
  #323  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 4:22 PM
terrynorthend terrynorthend is offline
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I tried the grain elevator location but there wasn't enough room. The Salter Street site is also too small. However, how about the area close to the Via Station?
...
The stadium can be built to accommodate Marginal Road, or Marginal Road can be slightly reconfigured.

Again, cold, damp and miserable much of the time. If we look past the weather aspect then Shannon Park is still the ideal location. It has the best mix of accessibility- easy for cars and transit, open usable space, and "curb appeal" (ie. it would be a nice addition to the waterfront, and look great coming over the bridge... as opposed to something out in suburbia.)
     
     
  #324  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 4:26 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Fenwick that is the exact site I was thinking of, but discounted as being too small. You've proven me wrong (I'm quite happy about that). This is now the number one spot in my mind. Love the idea of a train bringing out of towners in too, you could start in NB and finish right at the stadium, with a hotel nearby seems perfect to me!
Thank you for the input BravoZulu. This is my new number one spot also. It should be noted that there is enough room to position a stadium at a number of different angles. Here is an altered map with Marginal Road re-routed so that the stadium could be right next to the water (I did this with the Windows Paint program, I really need a better Graphics program for this). This would save what appears to be a large cargo warehouse next to the Via Station.

     
     
  #325  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 4:30 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Again, cold, damp and miserable much of the time. If we look past the weather aspect then Shannon Park is still the ideal location. It has the best mix of accessibility- easy for cars and transit, open usable space, and "curb appeal" (ie. it would be a nice addition to the waterfront, and look great coming over the bridge... as opposed to something out in suburbia.)
I agree about the damp comment. However, I think any stadium in the Halifax area should have a roof covering the stands. During the summer months the waterfront seems to be a very popular location for buskers and tourists so it can't be too bad as far as being cold and damp.
     
     
  #326  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 5:13 PM
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Originally Posted by fenwick16 View Post
I agree about the damp comment. However, I think any stadium in the Halifax area should have a roof covering the stands. During the summer months the waterfront seems to be a very popular location for buskers and tourists so it can't be too bad as far as being cold and damp.
I agree fenwick16 I like this spot too. It would even line up with a proposed third Harbour Crossing which it sounds we are going to need by 2016. Thanks for trying the Jager stadium I was just curious on how it compared to McMahon since it looks like it might be a fairly cheap design.

I think we are starting to nail down some real possibilites:
  • Marginal Road
  • Willow Park
  • Dartmouth Crossings
  • Shannon Park
     
     
  #327  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 5:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BravoZulu View Post
Fenwick that is the exact site I was thinking of, but discounted as being too small. You've proven me wrong (I'm quite happy about that). This is now the number one spot in my mind. Love the idea of a train bringing out of towners in too, you could start in NB and finish right at the stadium, with a hotel nearby seems perfect to me!
The train aspect could have a lot of potential. A train could feed from parking lots at HFX shopping Ctr., Bedford & Sackville plus have designated stops. This is the corridor that should have a pilot LRT. The VIA site was considered for a Metro Centre II. There are current plans for that area called the Seawall. I think it is slated for retail and hotel uses. That doesn't mean it can't change. There would be only one route by car in and out so that may be a factor even though 75% would be hoffing it or taking the train, bus, water taxi or new stadium ferry. In New York the Port Authority has a huge transit terminal on the west side of Manhattan. From there you can take trains buses or the subway. They run a return stadium shuttle to Giants Stadiun and then Izod Ctr. about 15km away in East R. New Jersey. Everyone seems to manage and expect good transit. What were some alternate stadium sites for the Commenwealth Games?
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Last edited by Empire; Nov 28, 2009 at 11:47 PM.
     
     
  #328  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 5:42 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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The train aspect could have a lot of potential. A train could feed from parking lots at HFX shopping Ctr., Bedford & Sackville plus have designated stops. This is the corridor that should have a pilot LRT. The VIA site was considered for a Metro Centre II. There are current plans for that area called the Seawall. I think it is slated for retail and hotel uses. That doesn't mean it can't change. There would be only one route by car in and out so that may be a factor even though 75% would be hoffing it or taking the train, bus, water taxi or new stadium ferry. In New York the Port Authority has a huge transit terminal on the west side of Manhatten. From there you can take trains buses or the subway. They run a return stadium shuttle to Giants Stadiun and then Izod Ctr. about 15km away in East R. New Jersey. Everyone seems to manage and expect good transit. What were some alternate stadium sites for the Commenwealth Games?
I really like this site. One big difference with regards to the Commonwealth Games site is that the committee looking into it was selling the bid based on having the athlete's village, stadium and an aquatics centre all at the same location. A location for the stadium alone will require far less land.
     
     
  #329  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 8:20 PM
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I agree about the damp comment. However, I think any stadium in the Halifax area should have a roof covering the stands. During the summer months the waterfront seems to be a very popular location for buskers and tourists so it can't be too bad as far as being cold and damp.

Unfortunately a stadium needs to be usable 12 months of the year, not just the 3 months that there are people on the waterfront. Aside from the possible train connections, this is an atrocious location. You have placed it on the site of the parking lots for the Cunard Center if I am reading this right, which makes it a non-starter. In addition the traffic down there is ridiculous at normal times; at times when there are events at the CC it is totally hopeless. Multiply that by a factor of 10 and you have a recipe for disaster.

If you are insistent on having spectators shivering and freezing in the cold and damp, put it in Shannon Park. That is also a poor location for traffic and transit, but at least has the potential for improvement. The Windsor St site remains superior to all alternatives IMO.
     
     
  #330  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 8:59 PM
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Oh Keith, you're the only person I know who thinks a location immediately next to a major highway is a poor location for traffic and transit.

That said, I do agree with you on the Marginal Road site. That would just never work no matter how I look at it.
     
     
  #331  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 9:39 PM
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Unfortunately a stadium needs to be usable 12 months of the year, not just the 3 months that there are people on the waterfront. Aside from the possible train connections, this is an atrocious location. You have placed it on the site of the parking lots for the Cunard Center if I am reading this right, which makes it a non-starter. In addition the traffic down there is ridiculous at normal times; at times when there are events at the CC it is totally hopeless. Multiply that by a factor of 10 and you have a recipe for disaster.

If you are insistent on having spectators shivering and freezing in the cold and damp, put it in Shannon Park. That is also a poor location for traffic and transit, but at least has the potential for improvement. The Windsor St site remains superior to all alternatives IMO.
I agree that the Windsor St site is a good location and possibly the best location. However, it is owned by the DND and is still in use. So it might not be available in the foreseeable future.

When I lived in Halifax, most of the buses crossed the MacDonald Bridge as opposed to the MacKay bridge (next to Shannon Park) and there didn't seem to be many buses traveling to Shannon Park. So with Shannon Park it seems like it will be difficult to get to except by car.

To be honest, I never lived in that part of Halifax by the waterfront, so you could be right. There seems to be people living close to that area so it would be good to hear from people who live in the surrounding area to see if they think that it will be a miserable location during the fall. However, the stadium could be designed with a roof over the stands and built so that wind is not whipping through the stadium. Unless a stadium is completely enclosed (a dome) then it likely will not be used 12 months of the year. Most outdoor stadiums in Canada probably are not used very much during the winter months. So it will likely be used mainly from April until November. But if it is built with covered stands then it might even be used at times during the winter if people bundle up warmly.

Looking at the Cunard Centre website, it is Pier 23 which in the one image I had partly removed to get the stadium to fit east-west which is as you say a non-starter. However, there is enough room to have it fit in a south-north direction.

I think that the best option is to look at various locations and look at all of the advantages and disadvantages. One advantage of this location is that it is within walking distance of SMU so they might offer financial support. Also, it is close to the downtown which will bring people to the downtown and help to keep it a vibrant location.

I would suggest having 4 to 5 potential sites and then list the advantages and disadvantages of each. For all those who are really serious about getting a stadium built and have it become a successful venue then it is worth the time to consider each location. Not everyone will agree with each location.

Last edited by fenwick16; Nov 29, 2009 at 7:02 AM.
     
     
  #332  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 9:42 PM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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Oh Keith, you're the only person I know who thinks a location immediately next to a major highway is a poor location for traffic and transit.

That said, I do agree with you on the Marginal Road site. That would just never work no matter how I look at it.
Could you elaborate on your reasons. A stadium seems to fit and it seems like these lands might be available.
     
     
  #333  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 9:44 PM
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Keith makes some great points. I think many of these site choices like Marginal, the Wanderers grounds, and maybe even Windsor (depending on what becomes of the DND lands) are far too small.

We are really trying to shoehorn a stadium into place, by using just a field and sidelines stands as a template. There is no allowance for a "landing zone" around the stadium for people, vehicles, service, emergency, etc., an events plaza, gates and concessions, a field house for the team and offices, surface parking or parkade (even with transit, a dedicated amount will be required if only as a requirement for permit) and a practice field, which i've observed at most other stadium facilities across Canada (or US).

Just bing-map the area around McMahon, or Commonwealth in Edmonton, or even little Taylor field in Regina. In each case, the stadium itself (excluding the support grounds and parking) has a functional footprint of approx. 200m x 200m (Commonwealth was almost 300m square!) They have gobs of surface parking, practice fields, adjacent ball diamonds, soccer pitches, fieldhouses, aquatic centres, etc. They are true multi-purpose facilities. At Marginal, if we ever managed approval to fit a small stadium in place, there would be absolutely no room for future expansion.


Having said all that about size, ironically I still feel the most (promising) and likely thing to happen in the near-mid term for Halifax would be an upgrade of Huskies Stadium. This would allow for the Uteck Bowl to stay put, and give us a chance at attracting a CFL franchise, possibly an international calibre athletics event too, which may free up some government funding dollars (Moncton got some for its new Stadium to host the World Jr. Track and Field Championships).

Yes it would be a small, specialized stadium custom built into place, parking is an issue that may need to be addressed and it would never become a multi-function park. But think of Molson Field at McGill as inspiration. As you can see in the comparison photo, they are strikingly similar. The Tower Fitness Centre would need extensive renovation to incorporate the main stands, and the building to the north (is it a rink?) would be realigned slightly into the parking lots beyond and redesigned maybe as a new wing of the "Tower". The west sideline offers room for quite a large grandstand like at McGill. Molson really is an amazing stadium, and has a great intimate feeling.

     
     
  #334  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2009, 11:29 PM
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All of the councilors have and email accessible through the HRM site. A group address could be made with all of their addresses and then the letter can be sent to them so they all receive it at the same time and are all on the same page. There have to a couple of councilors who want this to happen.
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  #335  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2009, 1:03 AM
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The Tower Fitness Centre would need extensive renovation to incorporate the main stands, and the building to the north (is it a rink?) would be realigned slightly into the parking lots beyond and redesigned maybe as a new wing of the "Tower".
You are correct, the building to the north is the SMU rink, and conveniently last I heard it was scheduled to be replaced. Might not be that hard to convince them to move it at that point.

While I still like the marginal road site, I think you are right that the SMU location makes the most sense for a number of reasons:

1. Huskies stadium needs replacement or major repairs.
2. A joint venture by the university and the city/new CFL owners would be easier to finance.
3. Still reasonably close to downtown.
4. Good transit service for the universitys could be extended to weekend days when games are on.

I have a friend who works at SMU, I'll see if he has any insight into what their plans are for the stadium as well as the rink replacement.
     
     
  #336  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2009, 1:38 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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All of the councilors have and email accessible through the HRM site. A group address could be made with all of their addresses and then the letter can be sent to them so they all receive it at the same time and are all on the same page. There have to a couple of councilors who want this to happen.
This would be good. I also think that this group, Advocates of an HRM Stadium should actually start having meetings and have a mailing address and phone number. It would be best to have an address in the HRM area. The group should also have a spokesman or spokesmen. If the group is successful then news outlets and councilors will want to contact the group which would likely mean contacting the spokesmen. Right now it is just a name but to really be successful then it will have to become an actual organization.

I am not the type to be a spokesman since I have a face that nobody would take seriously and I really dislike public speaking. However, I can do some of the organization. I suggest that we start by communicating through email and continue expressing ideas on this thread. To start with, anyone interested could send their email addresses to me through the private message function on this thread. Then we could communicate through group and individual emails. How many people are interested in this? This would mean disclosing names and some information to one another, and actually having meetings both in person and web-conferencing. To start with I can organize the names and disclose names to others involved in the group. Once there are enough people interested we could start by having a web-conference (either voice-audio or as a message board). This is the sort of thing that I am thinking of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_conferencing . This is best for those of us who are not in the Halifax area (I am in the Toronto area). This way we can organize a website, advertising and send letters to councilors.

Anyone interested please send me your email using the private message function of this forum (upper right hand corner). I would strongly suggest that people do not disclose their email directly on this forum since it will leave you open to all types of spam email.
     
     
  #337  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2009, 1:56 AM
BravoZulu BravoZulu is offline
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Tried to repost the petition link on facebook and got this message:

"Some content in this message has been reported as abusive by Facebook users."

it won't let me post it, worked fine the other day, anyone else having this issue?
     
     
  #338  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2009, 1:58 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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You are correct, the building to the north is the SMU rink, and conveniently last I heard it was scheduled to be replaced. Might not be that hard to convince them to move it at that point.

While I still like the marginal road site, I think you are right that the SMU location makes the most sense for a number of reasons:

1. Huskies stadium needs replacement or major repairs.
2. A joint venture by the university and the city/new CFL owners would be easier to finance.
3. Still reasonably close to downtown.
4. Good transit service for the universitys could be extended to weekend days when games are on.

I have a friend who works at SMU, I'll see if he has any insight into what their plans are for the stadium as well as the rink replacement.
The more that I think about it the more that I think that this will be the easiest way. That is by getting SMU involved. However, it is possible that they might be interested in an off-campus site. That way they have the means to expand their campus. It might be cheaper for them to buy land off-campus and build from scratch than to try to squeeze a large stadium onto their current site and start rearranging their campus. One point with Montreal is that they have the Olympic Stadium also. So CFL games that will attract a large crowd can simply be moved to the Big O.

If SMU is involved then they will be able to set up a trust fund that can be tax deductible for charitable purposes. Universities do this to fund new buildings. They could set it up so that people who are not alumni can also contribute. I would rule out the Marginal Road site. SMU might actually be interested in building a stadium on that site. It is fairly close to their campus and it is also downtown so it would attract people to games that normally would not go.
     
     
  #339  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2009, 4:04 AM
fenwick16 fenwick16 is offline
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There is a lot more space one block away from SMU at Robie and Inglis. I copied and pasted the SMU field on this location. I also showed it in bird's eye view of Bing maps. Being right on Robie, this should have fairly good transit.



     
     
  #340  
Old Posted Nov 29, 2009, 3:48 PM
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There is a lot more space one block away from SMU at Robie and Inglis. I copied and pasted the SMU field on this location. I also showed it in bird's eye view of Bing maps. Being right on Robie, this should have fairly good transit.
Yes... but hell would freeze over before you could get the city, community, counsellors, neighbours, etc. to agree to put a stadium in Gorsebrook Field... and in the backyards of so many residents. And perhaps that's the proper thing. I don't think there is any appropriate location in the South End... personally.
     
     
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