HARRISBURG-LANCASTER-LEBANON-YORK | South Central, PA | Regional Development Thread

[chuikov]

Zwifka pointed out that city development has long been guided by an unstated rule not to detract from or obscure the dominance of the Capitol dome on the city skyline.

"That was the tradition," he said. "They did not want the Capitol to disappear behind office towers."

Oh boy, here we go! The old NIMBY "can't do" attitude. I run into it alot.

The long standing unwritten rules guiding city planning should be re-thought because there seems to be many long standing problems that aren't being addressed.

The waterfront is a perfect place for hotels, restaurants etc.

And I don't know how long it's been since the Capitol Bldg has dominated the skyline:

[chuikov]

Dave,

Is Penbrook planning to unincorporate? I may have missed some details in previous posts, but jut wondering if it would become part of Susquehanna Twp or the City.

[EastSideHBG]

chuikov, I couldn't agree more! "Unwritten rules" are meant to be broken eventually and our waterfront could do soooo much more! This will certainly give it that opportunity.

And like you eluded to, the Capitol dominates only from certain angles. Are we going to fuss about a few certain angles?!? And nice pic of a rarely seen angle!

RE: Penbrook, it has been bankrupt for YEARS and wanted to join Susq. Twp. many moons ago. Susq. didn't want them, though, so the deal never happened. The City did at one time but the citizens of Penbrook fought that tooth and nail so that never happened either. But now with all of the hassle on Penbrook's council and them STILL being in tough financial shape after all of these years (among other issues) I really don't see them being around much longer. IMO it is inevitable for these smaller, cash-strapped municipalities in PA to disappear. In this day and age I say, "GOOD RIDDANCE!!"

Just imagine if the City was able to absorb them, increasing the City's size, population and tax base. Sure it's not much but every little bit helps...

[wrightchr]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

chuikov, I couldn't agree more! "Unwritten rules" are meant to be broken eventually and our waterfront could do soooo much more! This will certainly give it that opportunity.

And like you eluded to, the Capitol dominates only from certain angles. Are we going to fuss about a few certain angles?!? And nice pic of a rarely seen angle!

i agree Dave, but i have to add one point on this. the only angled view of the capitol and the skyline that should be preserved is directly west of the complex to the susquehanna river. it's probably the cities most famous and historicaly significant building and the view from oposing side of the river is definately one the city is known for. if there is anywhere in the city that is deserving of a height limit, it's the area of DT between the capitol complex and the river. anywhere else and it could 1,000 ft IMO.

RE: Penbrook, it has been bankrupt for YEARS and wanted to join Susq. Twp. many moons ago. Susq. didn't want them, though, so the deal never happened. The City did at one time but the citizens of Penbrook fought that tooth and nail so that never happened either. But now with all of the hassle on Penbrook's council and them STILL being in tough financial shape after all of these years (among other issues) I really don't see them being around much longer. IMO it is inevitable for these smaller, cash-strapped municipalities in PA to disappear. In this day and age I say, "GOOD RIDDANCE!!"

Just imagine if the City was able to absorb them, increasing the City's size, population and tax base. Sure it's not much but every little bit helps...

well, we all know how conservative the area is, so i doubt we'll see the annexation or merging of penbrook or paxtang boroughs anytime soon. IMO they should both become part of Harrisburg...along with Suquehanna, Lower Paxton, and Swatara townships. that would definately improve the tax base and create a constituency of nearly 140,000 residents...as opposed to the cities current population of about 50,000.

what i would really like to see is the creation of a regional government authority that would basically overlap the current boundaries of midstate counties and include all local municipalities. it's objective would be to share resourses and limited assets. maybe even create a joint regional/metro police force and park system. there are many cities with type of regional government cooperation. it could work here as well. but with dumbasses like the cumberland county commissioners, who refuse to back a regional rail initiative, this type of progressive thinking may be light years away.

[wrightchr]

Originally Posted by chuikov

that's a great shot chuikov

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by wrightchr

i agree Dave, but i have to add one point on this. the only angled view of the capitol and the skyline that should be preserved is directly west of the complex to the susquehanna river. it's probably the cities most famous and historicaly significant building and the view from oposing side of the river is definately one the city is known for. if there is anywhere in the city that is deserving of a height limit, it's the area of DT between the capitol complex and the river. anywhere else and it could 1,000 ft IMO.

Speaking of, I wonder why the City never started the State St. project, where they were going to rip out the parking islands and replace them with trees and a grassy area, exactly how it was in the early 1900s? That would then create an unobstructed view from the Capitol steps to the river (the trees were going to border the grass). It was approved, all of the funding was in place and it was supposed to be done by this Spring yet they never started it?!? I am REALLY confused by that one b/c there was a lot of hype with the project.

well, we all know how conservative the area is, so i doubt we'll see the annexation or merging of penbrook or paxtang boroughs anytime soon. IMO they should both become part of Harrisburg...along with Suquehanna, Lower Paxton, and Swatara townships. that would definately improve the tax base and create a constituency of nearly 140,000 residents...as opposed to the cities current population of about 50,000.

what i would really like to see is the creation of a regional government authority that would basically overlap the current boundaries of midstate counties and include all local municipalities. it's objective would be to share resourses and limited assets. maybe even create a joint regional/metro police force and park system. there are many cities with type of regional government cooperation. it could work here as well. but with dumbasses like the cumberland county commissioners, who refuse to back a regional rail initiative, this type of progressive thinking may be light years away.

I agree and this is where we need the state to step in. Oh wait, that only happens in PROGRESSIVE states.

[chuikov]

Thanks Wright! I like taking photos in association with work that also apply to my other interests. This one is from Towne House.

Also, thanks for the regular Harrisburg updates Dave. I've only been here for a year and a half, but it seems like 50% of the articles or subjects that you post here are in some way related to something I'm involved in or heard of - it's almost like a small town.

Also Wright, I agree that a view from the river should be preserved to the Capitol and, when possible, some of the old mansions should be kept in tact on up Front st as well - maybe some swank restaurants, or high priced yuppie apts. I don't want the waterfront to turn into Vegas, but I'd hate to see missed opportunity due to a few obstructionists. A 'scene' could easily be created down there with some open minded city planning and some willing investors.

BTW: My dealings with the planners etc at H'burg city hall have been great.

[EastSideHBG]

Nevermind, a quick search on the City's site gave me my answers. I think this is a GREAT project and the answer to what you were saying, Chris; there will be no obstruction from the Capitol to the west and vice versa:

Sate Street Promenade

The Project involves comprehensive streetscape improvements to the one and two hundred blocks of State Street in Harrisburg, PA, one of the most significant, historic and aesthetically important boulevards in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which links the Pennsylvania State Capitol Building and Capitol Complex to Front Street, Kunkel Plaza and Riverfront Park.

In particular, plans call for removal of the trees from the mall down the center of the street, which presently block the axial vista of the River and the Capitol Building, and the return of grass to the mall, as it was originally. In addition, the north and south sides of the street are to have new sidewalks with brick pavers for historic consistency, the planting of trees, installation of period street lights and the placement of benches and informational kiosks. Diagonal parking presently situated along the center mall, will be relocated toward the street’s north and south curb lines.

This project will return the promenade between the Pennsylvania State Capitol and the Susquehanna River to a grand vista that distinguishes the relationship of Pennsylvania’s Capital City to its stunning setting on the riverbank. It will also compliment the surrounding Harrisburg National Register District, the four architecturally significant church edifices which face the street and the pedestrian and vehicular linkage of this corridor to the Central Business District and neighboring tourist-oriented destination.

The City ha s received a grant for 1,000,000 through PennDOT’s “Hometown Street Enhancement” Program. The Project is scheduled for a let date of mid-November 2005 with a Start date of mid-March, early April. The project is scheduled for completion early September.

http://www.harrisburgpa.gov/governme...promenade.html

[EastSideHBG]

I think this is an awesome plan for the Harrisburg Malll and I am excited about it because the theatre is the focul point, but not the entire project (FYI if you go to the mall you can see the HUGE rendering on one of its walls; it looks really nice, and it gives the mall a section that gives somewhat of an outdoor feel). But I think the HBG area has reached saturation of movie theatres and this should be the last one.


Harrisburg Mall to add 14-screen movieplex

Wednesday, February 22, 2006
BY TOM DOCHAT
Of The Patriot-News

A 14-screen movie theater complex will be the centerpiece of a second round of renovations at Harrisburg Mall.

Feldman Mall Properties Inc., owner of the 900,000-square-foot Swatara Twp. mall, announced yesterday that it has reached an agreement with Aliance Management Inc. to operate the theaters.

The theater complex will be in a 60,000-square-foot addition behind the mall, between the Boscov's and Hecht's anchor stores. Patrons will have access to the theater complex through the front or rear entrances to the mall. Plans show no direct outside entrance.

Construction is expected to start before the end of June pending final approval by the Swatara Twp. commissioners. The theater complex is scheduled to open by the first or second quarter of 2007.

The theater complex will have the latest bells and whistles in movie viewing, including stadium seating, digital surround sound, high-back chairs that rock and a high-ceiling lobby with concessions and a cafe.

Aliance operates as the Great Escape Theatres and has 20 theater complexes, mostly in the Midwest. Its closest property to Harrisburg is a 12-screen theater in Williamsport.

Larry Feldman, CEO of Feldman Mall Properties, said in a statement that the theater complex "is guaranteed to add more than just excitement. This theater will bring a level of luxury that Harrisburg theater patrons have been craving."

Feldman said last summer that he hoped to attract a movie theater to the mall to take the property "to the next level." He could not be reached for comment yesterday.

Feldman Mall Properties bought the mall in September 2003 and began a major renovation that brought in a Boscov's department store and a 200,000-square-foot Bass Pro Shops store as anchors. The mall's other anchor, Hecht's, will be renamed Macy's in the fall.

Aliance, which was formed in 1997, operates 203 movie screens. It has 48 screens under construction this year and an additional 68 under development for 2007. Anne Ragains, Aliance president and CEO, did not return calls for comment yesterday.

To complement the theater complex, Feldman said he expects to announce one or two smaller anchors at the mall before the end of June. He also said other restaurants are planned for the mall property, which is just west of the TecPort Business Center along Paxton Street.

The occupancy rate at the mall is about 80 percent.

Harrisburg Mall is less than two miles from a 300,000-square-foot shopping center being built along Lindle Road, near the Route 283 intersection. High Pointe Commons, which will have a Target and a J.C. Penney store, is to open in October.

[wrightchr]

^ that's awesome. i definately thought the market was reaching saturation with the Hoyts/Regal complex...but with another stadium seating multiplex being planned on the west shore and now this, it's just incredible. the amount of development going on is just crazy. i'm glad to see this thing attached to the mall which will force people to go through the mall to get to the theater. it's definately something different for this area and hopefully it will make the mall more of an antraction. i would like to see more development focused around the mall instead of building new big box stores further outside the urban area.

in relation to the state street project, i drove downtown on my way to my parents the other day and noticed that nothing was different. i thought for sure that this project would be on it's way to completion by now. i guess the city has pushed it back for one reason or another...but funding is in place, so i think we can count on something happening this spring.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by chuikov

Thanks Wright! I like taking photos in association with work that also apply to my other interests. This one is from Towne House.

Also, thanks for the regular Harrisburg updates Dave. I've only been here for a year and a half, but it seems like 50% of the articles or subjects that you post here are in some way related to something I'm involved in or heard of - it's almost like a small town.

No problem at all and I am glad you enjoy them! And it's not like a small town, it IS a small town.

Also Wright, I agree that a view from the river should be preserved to the Capitol and, when possible, some of the old mansions should be kept in tact on up Front st as well - maybe some swank restaurants, or high priced yuppie apts. I don't want the waterfront to turn into Vegas, but I'd hate to see missed opportunity due to a few obstructionists. A 'scene' could easily be created down there with some open minded city planning and some willing investors.

BTW: My dealings with the planners etc at H'burg city hall have been great.

I TOTALLY agree and have been saying for years that HBG is missing the boat with its waterfront. Yes it's nice but it could be so much more IMO.


I agree on all points, Chris!

[wrightchr]

^ definately the waterfront Dave. i've always thought the city/county should extend riverfront park north along the river from its demise at the city limits to fort hunter park...about 2 1/2 miles. it would create so many more recreational opportunities and greatly expand the areas trails/park system. i would also like to see a stretch of parkland on the western side of the river in wormleysburg...between dukes (old G-man) restaurant and the conodoguinet creek bridges. we could call it Riverfront Park West

[EastSideHBG]

I agree, Chris, and there are plans in the works for the West's waterfront. Funding was secured and everything, and an engineering study is being done. I have no clue as to when construction will start, though. I have a feeling they are waiting on (see my next comment below):

I am STILL waiting on Bridgeport's construction to take place over there (this is the project on Front St. in Worm-town that has the huge parking garage, the office and entertainment complex, etc.). Come on already!!!

[EastSideHBG]

Besides the dismal articles we have been reading as of late, I have a sneaking suspicion that HIA is in financial trouble (and if you look at the last paragraph, I may not be far off). They MUST lower the fares somehow and add more airlines if they want to compete, it's that simple. It's very sad to see that brand new terminal going to waste; every time I go to HIA, it is always a ghost town.


HIA deals with drop in traveler numbers

Thursday, February 23, 2006
BY DAN MILLER
Of The Patriot-News

The number of travelers flying into and out of Harrisburg International Airport last month was 9 percent less than in January 2005, HIA officials reported yesterday.

HIA Executive Director Fred Testa said fewer passenger seats were available in January this year. Last October, TransMeridian Airlines filed for bankruptcy and stopped offering nonstop flights from HIA to Orlando, Fla.

Testa also cited the impact of what he called temporary bankruptcy-related service reductions at HIA by Northwest Airlines Corp. and Delta Air Lines Inc. Both airlines are operating under bankruptcy protection.

As of Jan. 3, Minnesota-based Northwest had eliminated its two daily flights out of HIA to Minneapolis, HIA spokesman Scott Miller said. The first of the Northwest daily flights was cut when the airline filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in September, he said.

Northwest spokesman Dean Breest said yesterday that one of the two flights out of HIA to Minneapolis will resume on June 18.

"We're anxious to get the flight back," Miller said, adding that Minneapolis is the fifth most popular destination for travelers flying out of HIA.

Northwest continues to offer four daily flights from HIA to Detroit. Miller said the airline has increased the number of seats available on two of those flights by switching to larger jets.

Testa also reported that US Airways in recent weeks has increased the size of planes used for several of its daily flights out of HIA to Charlotte, N.C.

David McIntosh, a member of the Susquehanna Area Regional Airport Authority that owns and operates HIA, cautioned yesterday against reading too much into the January decline in passenger traffic.

"The way you look at things is over the long term. Over the past six years the totals have averaged out quite consistently. Let's not get into a panic because it was down 91/2 percent," McIntosh said, referring to the difference in passengers using HIA last month compared to January 2005.

The number of passengers using HIA was down 5.9 percent for all of 2005 compared to 2004. Airport officials blamed the decline on the airline bankruptcies, high fuel prices and lower fares available at Baltimore-Washington International and Philadelphia International airports.

But Testa noted that the 1.3 million passengers who used HIA last year is only about 2,000 fewer than in 2000. "It comes to six people a day, and that's the difference" compared to six years ago, he said.

The board yesterday approved a revised 2006 budget that projects about $1.7 million less in revenue due to the decision last month by AirTran Airways to cancel service it had planned to offer at HIA starting in May.

[chuikov]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I agree, Chris, and there are plans in the works for the West's waterfront. Funding was secured and everything, and an engineering study is being done. I have no clue as to when construction will start, though. I have a feeling they are waiting on (see my next comment below):

I am STILL waiting on Bridgeport's construction to take place over there (this is the project on Front St. in Worm-town that has the huge parking garage, the office and entertainment complex, etc.). Come on already!!!

Dave,

Do you know of any more specifics or links on the West Shore waterfront project? I'm looking for someplace to place antennas in that area, and we always prefer to place them on existing strucures rather than build a new pole, so any insight on what's being planned is always helpful.

[EastSideHBG]

Unfortunately, you now have to pay for the old articles in the Patriot so I don't have access to any of that info. I did a quick Google search and came up with nothing too. A few options are:

• Talk to the Wormleysburg officals and see if they can provide any info.
• Gannet-Fleming WAS doing the Bridgeport project the last time I worked with them (late '04) so they may know something.
• I don't think this new forum has a search function yet but I did post some of the info in this thread MANY pages ago. You could always sift through these and see if you can find it.

And if this info helps you out in any way then I expect a cut of the profits if you do find a suitable building to mount an antenna on.

[tranceclubbinphilly]

Hey Guys, as a fellow pilot and having flown through Harrisburg, I was always amazed that HIA only has one runway. HIA is cramed in between urban type areas and the river so I really can't see how they would add another runway or even if thats feasable. If they could somehow figure out some way to cram at least one more runway in that would probably accommodate the traffic for the new terminal. just my opinion.

[HHH]

Here was an interesting article in the 2/15 edition of the Hummelstown Sun regarding "Corridor Two":

Commuter Rail Service For Corridor Two
by Peter Durantine

At the corner of North Hanover Street and West Second Street in Hummelstown an empty lot of about half an acre sits along the Norfolk-Southern Railroad lines. There, says a borough official, is an ideal location for a train station, a block from the square.

"Certainly, it's a logical location," said Borough Manager Michael O'Keefe.

The borough owns the grassy lot across from the Uni-Mart, but O'Keefe said there have been absolutely no official discussions about putting a station there for the proposed regional rail line known as Corridor Two.

However, things are about to change. State Rep. John Payne (R-Dauphin) who sits on the board of Modern Transit Partnership, the nonprofit group gathering funds to build a regionial rail system, said public meetings are expected to start later this year to learn what communities in the Hershey-Lebanon area want from a system.

"I think what you'll see here in the next couple of months are meetings with local public officials," Payne said.

These meetings would be earlier than anticipated, but Payne said several factors are stepping up Modern Transit's schedule.

One of the most significant is the first leg of this regional system, Corridor One, will apparently run only from Lancaster to Harrisburg because the Cumberland County Commissioners oppose Corridor One, which initially was to go to Carlisle.

High gas prices are another factor and that appears in part to be driving the third factor, the dramatic increase in bus ridership between Hershey and Harrisburg.

In August 2003, when Captial Area Transit started offering cmmuter bus service from Hershey, the ridership was 988 passengers for that month. In August 2005, ridership was 3,584 passengers. The total number of passengers last year was 26,682, compared to 17,690 in 2004.

"We would expect those numbers to grow," said Bill Parkin, CAT's manager of marketing and business development. "There's a need."

Parkin said CAT had to put larger buses on the morning route to accommodate the increased ridership.

One of the route's occasional riders has been Derry Township Supervisor August "Skip" Memmi, who is involved in the township's mass transportation issues. He catches the bus at the Rite Aid on Chocolate Avenue and rides the half-hour to Market Square in Harrisburg, where he works at the county administration building.

"You're not stressed out by honking horns and red lights," he said.

Memmi, as a member of the Industrial Commercial Development Authority, is one of the overseers of an inter-modal station in Hershey, designed to accommodate regional rail service. It will be located along the Norfold-Southern line.

Contract issues are being worked out, but Memmi said it is "hoped" construction on the approximately $14 million facility begins later this year. It will take about 18 months to complete and have 400 parking spaces next to the parking garage finished last year.

Memmi believes Corridor Two, which would run from Lebanon to Harrisburg via Hershey and Hummelstown makes "perfect sense" for economical reasons.

Many of those riding the bus from Hershey are professionals who work in the city and it benefits them economically to use mass transportaion, Memmi said. Commuters will spend less on gas, but also on parking. It costs $110 a month to park in Harrisburg.

Corridor Two, said Payne, would not cost local taxpayers. Funding would come from state funds. He and other central Pennsylvania lawmakers are negotiating with the Rendell administration to make the regional rail part of the state's mass transit budget. User fees would cover the rest of the systems cost.

If planning for Corridor Two starts this year, it would take five to 10 years before trains start running, Payne said. Meanwhile, traffic continues to backup further each rush hour along Route 322 and bus ridership appears to be on the upswing.

"We can't build our way out of highway congestion," Memmi said. "We could see an interesting amount of ridership" on Corridor Two trains.

[wrightchr]

^ great post HHH...i have been foreseeing the corridor two development ever since the orginal regional rail project took off the ground. i definatley see this second leg of the system stretching to hummelstown, hershey, and lebanon....maybe even way out to wyomising to link up with SEPTA's schuylkill valley metro. a corridor three linking harrisburg and york/west york would also be beneficial. regional rail is really the way to go. the rail infrastructure and right of way is already in place and will save taxpayers hundreds of millions. the entire system is supposed to be electrified as well which will cut down on pollution. too bad the cumberland county commissioners just don't have a clue.

[wrightchr]

Originally Posted by tranceclubbinphilly

Hey Guys, as a fellow pilot and having flown through Harrisburg, I was always amazed that HIA only has one runway. HIA is cramed in between urban type areas and the river so I really can't see how they would add another runway or even if thats feasable. If they could somehow figure out some way to cram at least one more runway in that would probably accommodate the traffic for the new terminal. just my opinion.

i used to think the same thing...maybe HIA needed another runway. but the airport terminal is not nearly at the capacity is should be and building another runway wouldn't help with the airports falling passenger volumes. the current runway is over 10,000 ft and can accomodate any commercial aircraft...but it's hardly used really. even with multiple air freight services and military planes regularly using the runway, it still isn't even near capacity. the real problem here is luring low cost carriers to HIA and getting them to open up more markets to compete with BWI and PHL. HIA isn't the only airport having this problem. LVI is in a similiar position. with the recent airline bankruptcies and cost cutting measures they seam to be implimenting, smaller feeder airports like HIA will be hard pressed to compete with larger hubs within an hour and 1/2 away. and with ticket prices sometimes hundreds of dollars cheaper in Philly and Baltimore, it's no wonder why people choose to drive the extra distance.