Transit Fantasies

[trofirhen]

Interesting work. Your system is comprehensive without being too pie-in-the-sky. I really think it's feasible, but still, I would have liked to see a line from East Hastings, through the West End, then going under the bay to Arbutus.

[DKaz]

Nice. I had something similar except I made the line separate from Expo Line and made it a Yamanote Line style loop, looping on Arbutus. Also, I brought the line up to near Metrotown Station.

[TransitJack]

Arbutus from Cornwall to 4th and onwards to Broadway has a fairly steep grade to climb.

[DKaz]

Unless you follow the existing rail ROW from Arbutus to Granville and then tunnel to Burrard downtown, or just tunnel straight from around Broadway and Arbutus to Burrard downtown.

[jbrizzy]

I wouldn't omit a station at fraser st.. Fraser is a busy shopping street in that area plus there's a high school right on the corner. Knight is the street that doesn't really have a lot going on.

[Tfreder]

Originally Posted by theho

Google Map Project

This idea makes so much sense. I could definitely see something like this working in the future. What was the reasoning on not having the Expo Line go all the way to Langley Centre?

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Okay so I guess this isn't really a true "transit fantasy", and I don't think many people here can relate to these bus routes, but I've always been irritated by the Hwy 99 Peak Hour/Peak direction coach bus routes that serve South Surrey and South Delta. There's definitely room for improvement with the current routes.

Hwy 99 Bus Routes Idea

608/606 -> Combined into single route name + combined with short run 601's from Bridgeport <-> Ladner Exch.

Both of the routes either start as/continue as 601's that run from Bridgeport and Ladner Exchange. It would just make more sense to have the route number stay with the bus for the duration of it's trip. Also, having different route numbers for the AM and PM trips is pretty much pointless. 606 would be the official route number.

604/603 -> 603 routing discontinued. Buses distributed between other routes.

Really translink? You have 2 bus routes that have the exact same route operating, but the only difference is the direction they travel in Tsawwassen (Clockwise loop/Counter-clockwise loop). This is definitely an overkill.

602/601 -> Current peak direction 601 would be renamed 602 during rush hour, and would route down Hwy 17 to 56th st (Much like the current 602)

By bypassing Ladner Exchange, it shaves about 12 minutes off of the commute. The Ladner areas would already be serviced by the 606. Because this would be a different routing than the 601, it would have to be under the route number 602 to prevent confusion. The 601 would still be running against rush hour. (And in both directions in off-peak hours)

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354/352 -> Combined into single route that now has the 352 portion of route travel down 24th instead of 16th.

These 2 routes currently have a small ridership outside of the P&R and areas that they duplicate service with the 351. By combining them into one route, it would give translink the option of using the extra buses to increase frequency on the heavier used routes, like the 351. It would also be better to have this new route go down 24th instead of 16th, which is currently not served by transit.

351 -> No changes

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311 -> Continues from Scottsdale Exchange and runs down 124th and 68th and terminates at Newton Exch.

Compared to the previously mentioned bus routes, the 311 doesn't really service any areas in Newton outside of Scott road (Which already has other bus routes operating along it). It would be interesting to see how much ridership the 311 could pick up if it traveled from Scottsdale to Newton via 124th and 68th (Which currently have no transit service).

[WBC]

Originally Posted by DKaz

Nice. I had something similar except I made the line separate from Expo Line and made it a Yamanote Line style loop, looping on Arbutus. Also, I brought the line up to near Metrotown Station.

Agreed - BC line needs to go to Metrotown or else Derek Corrigan will not be happy. Even if it goes to Metrotown he would still vote against the line at least 3 times claiming that it puts too much burden on Burnaby to have so many Sky Train stations and tunnels. :-)

I love the idea of the loop line connecting all the other lines around Vancouver and Burnaby, but that line is probably 30 years away...Politically selling this to all the other cities would be a tall order.

[bardak]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

602/601 -> Current peak direction 601 would be renamed 602 during rush hour, and would route down Hwy 17 to 56th st (Much like the current 602)

As someone who lives in Ladner this seams like it would be a mistake. I understand what you are getting at but removing a regular service bus during rush hour messes with the simplicity of the network. It would also remove service from the densest (I use this term relatively) area of Ladner along Ladner trunk and it would make the simple trip from Ladner to Tsawwassen much harder during the rush.

[theho]

Originally Posted by Tfreder

This idea makes so much sense. I could definitely see something like this working in the future. What was the reasoning on not having the Expo Line go all the way to Langley Centre?

I only included a rough sketch of the north shore and Surrey/Langely to help me think about the context that this BC line would exist in. So yes it should extend Langley Centre.

Originally Posted by jbrizzy

I wouldn't omit a station at fraser st.. Fraser is a busy shopping street in that area plus there's a high school right on the corner. Knight is the street that doesn't really have a lot going on.

My original thoughts placed a station on Knight as I was thinking that bus service that extended over the Knight St Bridge would be good. However that service could easily run out of Victoria (via Argyle) or Fraser station. So after mulling it over I agree that Fraser make much more sense given the concentration of retail.

Originally Posted by DKaz

Also, I brought the line up to near Metrotown Station.

The first sketch I had in my head ran through Metrotown but after looking at a map it is really a sharp turn to go to Metrotown and come back up through BCIT. I figure that Metrotown is already reasonably well served and that running along the line already there would duplicate more service then connecting through Joyce. Going through Joyce also cuts not a small number of km and therefore cost and time.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

but still, I would have liked to see a line from East Hastings, through the West End, then going under the bay to Arbutus.

I agree that it would be cool to continue the line around back up to Broadway or even back the beginning to make a full loop, but I think that would be a longer term expansion on top of this network improvement. The west end downtown already has excellent transit and walk share so putting stations there is more about making good service better then providing service that does not exist.

[akaJoska]

http://goo.gl/maps/zJJ8t

That's my try. To be honest, it was very hard to do the South of the Fraser lines because, as a tourist (hard to use that word, because I would have to say my knowledge of Vancouver runs much deeper than a tourist), I don't pay much attention to Langley or Surrey (sorry )

Obviously this cannot be completed, probably ever, considering the costs associated with some of these projects, as well as how developed they are. For a High-Speed train to run to LA, it will take a long time in development, before it's physically, and financially feasible for the governments involved. Likewise with the passenger ferries to Victoria. I would want those ferries to take an hour, an hour and a half max, but in order for that too happen, there will need to be substantial ridership (which there won't be) in order for the government to decide that the vessels need to be fast.

I aimed for shorter routes, in comparison to some on this forum, because I was thinking that it would shorten the time it takes for the trains to return to the station, despite the fact that you could just use many trains on the same tracks.

The Pacific Spirit Mag-Lev train would be composed of 5 trains, each bearing the name, and art or pictures of, one of the 5 cities on the route (Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, LA). I was just spitballing, thinking that the times would be:
Vancouver - Seattle: 1 Hour
Seattle - Portland: 1 1/2 Hours
Portland - San Francisco: 4 Hours
San Francisco - LA: 2 1/2 Hours


Vancouver - LA
6AM 5PM (Vancouver train)
7AM 6PM (Seattle train)
8AM 7PM (Portland train)
9AM 8PM (San Francisco train)
10AM 9PM (Los Angeles train)

The trains would run in a continuous loop, stopping in a certain location for an hour during the quiet hours, where they would be inspected. They would most likely have a driver (mind you who knows, in fifty to one hundred years, the technology could certainly be there).

On the Skytrain and LRT routes, I only included the Terminus Stations, because with all the extra stations added, Google was forcing me to put them on multiple pages. Therefore, along the route, stations could be added where seen fit.

Lines:
Expo - Waterfront - King George
Millenium - Waterfront - VCC-Clark
Canada - Waterfront - YVR - Terminal (Tsawassen Ferry Terminal)
Evergreen - Lougheed - Douglas College
Broadway UBC - Commercial - UBC
Western - Waterfront - Burrard-Broadway
Hastings - Waterfront - Burquitlam
Marine - UBC South - 22nd Street
North Shore - Sperling - Dundrave
South Fraser West - Ladner - King George
South Fraser East - King George - Langley Town Centre
Fraser - Coquitlam Central - Maple Ridge
Boundary Bay Line - Newton - Promenade

Tunnels:
Canada - Waterfront to Marine
Millenium / Expo - Waterfront to Stadium-Chinatown
Evergreen Line - Burquitlam Station to Barnet Hwy
Hastings Line - Waterfront to Clark Dr., Duthie Ave. to Burquitlam Station
North Shore Line - Low Level Rd. to Keith Rd., Park Royal Shopping Centre to Dundrave (Terminus) Station
Broadway UBC Line - Alma St. to Main St.
Boundary Bay Line - Sehmiahmoo Shopping Centre to Promenade (Terminus) Station
Fraser Line - Pitt River Rd. to Mary Hill Bypass


PS. The further away from Vancouver you get on my map, the less well-positioned the lines get.

[WBC]

Maybe we should get a few of these until that UBC SkyTrain line is built. I always felt that having BRTs holding a fort for future SkyTrain is a better option then building trams. Besides this monster is basically a tram with the ability to change the route.




http://www.thelocal.de/sci-tech/20120823-44535.html
Published: 23 Aug 12 10:30 CET

[trofirhen]

Great, but difficult turning corners in a grid-street pattern city such as Vancouver, I would think.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Great, but difficult turning corners in a grid-street pattern city such as Vancouver, I would think.

According to the article that should not be a big problem:

"Thanks to this patented multiple axis steering, the vehicle can manoeuvre just as easily as a 12-metre bus, forwards as well as backwards," an institute statement said.

[dleung]

it's longer than the canada line trains (shakes head)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by dleung

it's longer than the canada line trains (shakes head)

Or more graphically: our Canada Line "trains" are shorter than an articulated city bus!

[nname]

Actually, Canada Line trains are still 11m longer.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by WBC

this monster is basically a tram with the ability to change the route.

Or, as actual users would call it, basically a skytrain that gets stuck in traffic.

[Alon]

Is it feasible to railstitute SeaBus? If it's at all feasible given its depth, it would be interesting to extend the Canada Line under the Inlet and have it stop at Lonsdale Quay and Central Lonsdale. Given adequate development at the North Vancouver stations it could be a bigger priority than some of the relief lines proposed in this thread.

[logan5]

If we ever get another bridge crossing with a priority bus lane, say from around Lonsdale to the foot of Main St., I'd be pretty happy with that. Considering that there would be a 3 km stretch over the inlet with no stops, you would get downtown pretty quick. The Seabus travels at 9 mph.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Alon

Is it feasible to railstitute SeaBus? If it's at all feasible given its depth, it would be interesting to extend the Canada Line under the Inlet and have it stop at Lonsdale Quay and Central Lonsdale. Given adequate development at the North Vancouver stations it could be a bigger priority than some of the relief lines proposed in this thread.

I suppose it is technically possible, if money were no object. It is deep across the water, but not unfeasibly deep. However, for the price of directly replacing the Seabus with a rail link (IE Lonsdale to Downtown directly), you could do a lot in Vancouver. The entire North Shore has 1/3 the population of just the City of Vancouver. For the same amount of money it would take to tunnel under Burrad inlet, you could build multiple high capacity LRT lines throughout the city, that would serve a population of 600,000; vs building to Lonsdale that would serve an immediate population of 50,000.

Or you could build subterranean Skytrain to UBC (for the same price) and directly affect many times more people than in Lonsdale, and you would be exposing land to redevelopment (instead of water). Or you could build Skytrain to both Langley AND White Rock, and pass within a few km to double the people who live in the entire North Shore. Downtown, Kits, and South Granville deserve a subway loop before we built one out to the North Shore.

The North Shore will get a subway after I see New York build one to Staten Island. Way after.