West End Redevelopment

[polishavenger]

I cant agree with the removal of the 14th street interchange. I think it would cause too much of a traffic head ache, especially with a future LRT line going through the area.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by polishavenger

I cant agree with the removal of the 14th street interchange. I think it would cause too much of a traffic head ache, especially with a future LRT line going through the area.

yep, with you on this one as well. im not a "build more roads" guy by any means, but i think taking out the interchange will just lead to more stalled cars, clogging up the streets and polluting the air. arterial roads are called that for a reason...they need to move traffic in a pretty continous pace....clogging them up even more will only lead to a stroke.

besides, those interchanges arent huge behemoths anyway, they can be worked into a streetscape. stick a around building in the middle!

[Doug]

The ramps off 14th could be reconfigured to take up less space - ex. more of a diamond configuration vs. cloverleaf.

[polishavenger]

Originally Posted by Doug

The ramps off 14th could be reconfigured to take up less space - ex. more of a diamond configuration vs. cloverleaf.

Reconfiguring might be a good idea, but I would have to see a real benefit to justify the cost and inconvenience of the work that would be required. The set up I suggest doesnt involve anything other than building a new flyover for bow trail west bound, and some new bridges over 14th for the c-train (sunk cost that will be incurred one way or the other) and bow trail east bound. All that could be done without disruptions to traffic.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by josh white

Agreed. In regard to the open space. I do think at least something big enough to be able to toss a frisbee or play a game of soccer is necessary. Linear paths are nice, but don't leave very many options for active recreation. I think that is important too.

I agree that there should be such an area, but not as a focal point to a community. All too often such sites are empty 75% of the time. A small square or central park is more fitting in my mind, something about the size of a small city block. The larger fields can be beside the river or on the outer edges.

[Surrealplaces]

I like Polish's plan. Whatever we do, we need to get rid of those 'pseudo freeways' no question, and take out the bus depot. It's such a useless set up anyway.

The only thing I would do differently is have the parkland strip along the river a bit slimmer and have the road fronting the condos wider, with a tree lined boulevard. Have a central are park that borders along Bow Trail.

Great Job Polish.

[unibrain]

I'd like to see that plan swing into action.. it would bring nice density to the otherwise traffic and non-residential west riverbank.

However, the possibility of GSL Chevy moving are slim. The City could potentially expropriate part of the property, but being that GSL just did some major renovations to their building, it's unlikely they'll be moving any time soon..

Renfew Chrysler on the other hand, albeit some new renovations, the land is actually owned by the City. I believe there is a potential for a new ramp to get onto crowchild in the future, plus the addition of a ctrain bridge up alongside the bow trail bridge. This lrt leg will probably run beside the greyhound station, and then through, or beside the used car lot portion of GSL chevy.

[polishavenger]

The public good that could be achieved through reclaiming this part of downtown for better uses far outweighs personal interests of the land owners in this part of town. As a last resort, expropriation is in my opinion a legitimate option.

[shappy]

interesting stuff. Is the city currently planning on doing something with this part of town or are you guys just having fun?

Hope you guys don't mind but I thought I'd post some images from a PDF of the West Donlands development in Toronto. It actually has some interesting similarities to the West End like the interchange/on-ramp, the river and the compact land area. This part of town is currently an industrial wasteland. Site prep has actually started on this development. Also a international design competition has been recently announced.

Anyway, here are the images. I think this plan is excellent and perhaps Calgary can do something similar...

a rendering of the West Donlands (the Don River is just below the park)


building heights and massing


renderings of the various mini-neighbourhoods that would make up the development

[tokama]

^Wow. That is very nice. I like the use of lower towers to create an almost "european" type look and feel.

Polish - would your plan extend all the way to Crowchild Trail?

[mersar]

The area will be undergoing some changes in the near future due to the LRT line, which may facilitate needing to realign Bow Trail and its connecting roads (which like the LRT itself was originally planned for 20+ years ago). Nothing as drastic as what we're talking here, but its nice to dream of how things could be a perfect world.

[Boris2k7]

I have been starting my own model in Sketchup... note: none of the streets are quite straight... it's more of a quick mock-up...



I'll be continuing to work on this for a few days...

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by shappy

interesting stuff. Is the city currently planning on doing something with this part of town or are you guys just having fun?

Hope you guys don't mind but I thought I'd post some images from a PDF of the West Donlands development in Toronto. It actually has some interesting similarities to the West End like the interchange/on-ramp, the river and the compact land area. This part of town is currently an industrial wasteland. Site prep has actually started on this development. Also a international design competition has been recently announced.

Anyway, here are the images. I think this plan is excellent and perhaps Calgary can do something similar...

Looks like a good plan. It would be great if Calgary could do something along those lines. Thanks for the input.

I see you're a Ricky Gervais fan. I take it you've watched the British version of 'The Office'?

[Wooster]

Originally Posted by shappy

interesting stuff. Is the city currently planning on doing something with this part of town or are you guys just having fun?

Hope you guys don't mind but I thought I'd post some images from a PDF of the West Donlands development in Toronto. It actually has some interesting similarities to the West End like the interchange/on-ramp, the river and the compact land area. This part of town is currently an industrial wasteland. Site prep has actually started on this development. Also a international design competition has been recently announced.

Anyway, here are the images. I think this plan is excellent and perhaps Calgary can do something similar...

a rendering of the West Donlands (the Don River is just below the park)


building heights and massing


renderings of the various mini-neighbourhoods that would make up the development

That is a great comparison. you are right it does have a similar kind of context. I'd love to see something similar for the West end area in Calgary.

[CorporateWhore]

Is it too early to bulldoze the west end and start over again? Those condos sure helped start a revolution, but damn, they that area is too good to just leave it filled with that crap.

[Lee_Haber8]

Originally Posted by CorporateWhore

yep, with you on this one as well. im not a "build more roads" guy by any means, but i think taking out the interchange will just lead to more stalled cars, clogging up the streets and polluting the air. arterial roads are called that for a reason...they need to move traffic in a pretty continous pace....clogging them up even more will only lead to a stroke.

besides, those interchanges arent huge behemoths anyway, they can be worked into a streetscape. stick a around building in the middle!

Slowign down cars will reduce the demand to use them, fewer people will drive and there will actually be less pollution. Besides, I thought we planned for pedestrians first and then cars? You can not make an interchange fit into a streetscape.

[shappy]

Originally Posted by Surrealplaces

I see you're a Ricky Gervais fan. I take it you've watched the British version of 'The Office'?

yes, I certainly have (I own the DVD). I'm a big fan... the guy is a genius. Extras is also excellent.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by Lee_Haber8

Slowign down cars will reduce the demand to use them, fewer people will drive and there will actually be less pollution. Besides, I thought we planned for pedestrians first and then cars? You can not make an interchange fit into a streetscape.

Ah, so we are going to go down the "let's force people into changing" route again? Yeah, that always creates happy citizens who love coming into the inner city.

Face it guys, you can't just completely create chaos for cars and think that it will magically turn Calgary into this walkable superland. There will always be a need for private transportation in the city (even in the most walkable cities, decent arterial routes are always needed to move goods and services around), so there has to be a wholistic approach to city planning that mixes both public and private transit. Shifting the majority of resources to transit is fine, but don't go out and blatantly try to make life worse for people.

Maintaining a road on 14th street that hundreds of thousands of people use is not the problem. Wasting money on roads way out in the fuck of Tuscany that about 50 people use, is. Sprawl is a much bigger detriment to pedestrian friendliness than making sure that there is decent flow in a medium sized arterial road in the inner city.

[jeffwhit]

I would like to see some improvement with the 14th St Intersection, it think it could take up less overall space with a more efficient layout.
As for all that land, I'd actually like to see a major park, fully landscaped with a band shell/amphitheatre and something like a Children's Museum. Line it on the south side with mixed use buildings and connect it to Millennium Park over 14th. As part of this I'd also like to do something about encouraging Development on the south side of Bow trail and creating connections over Bow Trail.

I don't like Polish's facts regarding this.. but I'm wondering, what would the minimum amount of residential needed to make this all viable?

[polishavenger]

I think the plan from Toronto is a great comparison except that I would like to see more density. I think what the city has on the go for the East Village is more comparable to what should happen in the west end.