Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Bishop will also be getting extended to Plessis I'm sure

I wonder how that will play out... with the current angles of the rail line and Plessis, that would likely be a very awkward connection.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by esquire

I wonder how that will play out... with the current angles of the rail line and Plessis, that would likely be a very awkward connection.

I don't think there is a rail line between lag and plessis where Bishop would connect with it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dmacc

I don't think there is a rail line between lag and plessis where Bishop would connect with it.

But extending Plessis south puts it in an awkward conflict with the rail line.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by esquire

But extending Plessis south puts it in an awkward conflict with the rail line.

Plessis already runs south to the perimiter

[esquire]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Plessis already runs south to the perimiter

It doesn't link directly with Plessis north of the tracks. They share a name but they are effectively two completely separate roads.

[MG922]

The current Plessis road south of Fermor is local (gravel, i believe) and it wouldn't be hard to extend Bishop there. The issue is where do you go from there? From what I recall, the long term plan is to replace the interchange of TCH (Fermor) and Plessis going North, and somehow connect Bishop Grandin in the new interchange with Plessis and Fermor.

This would definitely require a sizeable study, as Bishop is a City road, and TCH (including the bridge) is Provincial, and the whole interchange would most likely be relocated southeast due to the many CN rail lines at the current location.

It would be a massive project.

[dmacc]

Originally Posted by esquire

It doesn't link directly with Plessis north of the tracks. They share a name but they are effectively two completely separate roads.

Hopefuly they think about that while they fix the over pass at #1, plessis and the rail yard. Pretty sure that bridge is barely clinging to life at the moment.

[MG922]

Originally Posted by dmacc

Hopefuly they think about that while they fix the over pass at #1, plessis and the rail yard. Pretty sure that bridge is barely clinging to life at the moment.

^perfect description. disturbingly accurate

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by WildCake

Agreed as well. Seems like the city did prevent perimeter problems for the time being. There is no street access to plessis from the Sage creek development. Warde is a dotted outline on Sage Creek map where it will link up in the future.

Perimeter between Lag and Hwy 1 probably will merit two diamonds if it will be completely developed into residential.

The current standard suggests Perimeter access every 2 KM. I haven't driven that stretch recently and clocked the distance exactly but memory and gut feel is that it is over the 6 KM mark meaning the target would likely be three connections. Primarily residential roads to the Perimeter as the perfect scenario for diamonds with the Perimeter being free flowing. Put those it at St Marys, St Annes and Pipeline and call it a day.

Gunn Rd is a special case as it will be replaced with a connection route between the Perimeter and the proposed high speed/limited access inner ring road network. Those connections should all be interchanges if they don't already exist. That would be HWY 3/Bishop at the Perimeter would also be an interchange. Kennaston and the Perimeter would also be an interchange as it will be the connection point to the Perimeter for the St Norbert by-pass by great great grandchildren will still be discussing as some far future event.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The current standard suggests Perimeter access every 2 KM. I haven't driven that stretch recently and clocked the distance exactly but memory and gut feel is that it is over the 6 KM mark meaning the target would likely be three connections. Primarily residential roads to the Perimeter as the perfect scenario for diamonds with the Perimeter being free flowing. Put those it at St Marys, St Annes and Pipeline and call it a day.

Quick google maps 'measure distance' function shows its 6.75 km between Lag and HWY 1 (from dead centre of the interchanges).

That would mean a target of two interchanges to allow about 2 kms on either side of the interchanges

2kms from Lag
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/49%...!4d-97.0210104

4 kms from Lag
https://www.google.ca/maps/place/49%...!4d-96.9929475

Sorry about the long URLs

Unless those farm houses get bought out by a developer, it would likely be cheaper to build the plessis one a bit east to avoid expropriation and then the second interchange in between the current symington and murdock roads. Too close to murdock road places the interchange fairly close to the perimeter curve which I believe is something that should be avoided if possible.

[buzzg]

Went to try and find an update on the Fort/Garry cycle project. Appears that the Garry portion has pushed back to 2019, and the Fort part cancelled. The McDermot/Bannatyne connections from Waterfront to West Alexander, along with Princess and Notre Dame improvements will happen this year.

That means that the first proper N-S cycling route will have to wait another year, and will have taken 3 years from concept to completion. Three years for a 5 block bike lane.

Hopefully the bike curb trial results are positive and we can speed this process up. There's a lot of streets that some movable curbs would make a huge difference. Hargrave especially – the street design in front of Glasshouse was not well thought out and people are always stopped loading in the bike lane due to poor design.

[Curmudgeon]

With the exceptions of the Princess/Donald, Smith/King and St. Mary/York pairs, all remaining one-way downtown streets should revert to two-way traffic.

This would reduce traffic speeds and result in more pedestrian friendly downtown area, particularly south of Graham.

There is absolutely no need for streets such as Garry or Carlton to be one way speedways given the relatively low traffic volumes.

[CoryB]

^^ The idea has merit. One challenge I see is the forced closure of three blocks of streets due to Portage Place. This forces a lot of local south bound traffic onto Carlton. There is really no way around that and shrinking the lane count each way isn't going to make it better. Based on that it may be an idea to add Carlton as a southbound only exception.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

With the exceptions of the Princess/Donald, Smith/King and St. Mary/York pairs, all remaining one-way downtown streets should revert to two-way traffic.

This would reduce traffic speeds and result in more pedestrian friendly downtown area, particularly south of Graham.

There is absolutely no need for streets such as Garry or Carlton to be one way speedways given the relatively low traffic volumes.

Completely agree. That, or if they remain one ways – there's no reason for them to be 4 through lanes. Consider pedestrian bump-outs, converting one lane to 2-way cycle track and/or have angled parking on one side. Lots of ways to improve Edmonton and Kennedy.

Originally Posted by CoryB

^^ The idea has merit. One challenge I see is the forced closure of three blocks of streets due to Portage Place. This forces a lot of local south bound traffic onto Carlton. There is really no way around that and shrinking the lane count each way isn't going to make it better. Based on that it may be an idea to add Carlton as a southbound only exception.

I agree to an extent, but I also feel like the block of Carlton between Portage & Ellice is crazy overbuilt. I know they use it for staging of major arena concerts sometimes – but they're already removing the parking lane, and Carlton would be just fine to lose a lane for cycle/wider sidewalks and staging can still take one of the 3 empty lanes. Because Portage traffic can turn onto Memorial from either direction, wouldn't really bother me for Carlton to shrink or become 2-way.

Once all 4 towers at TNS are done, all of a sudden Carlton is going to become a very active, busy street (for pedestrians and more traffic). I think improving the feel of the street and slowing down traffic there will be needed. Donald south of Portage is essentially a two-lane through street with turning lanes (functionally) and way busier – I think Carlton could (and should) easily go on a lane diet.

[esquire]

^ Look at Carlton at rush hour and you'll see why it is the way it is. As CoryB suggested, Portage Place means that a lot of through traffic that would otherwise have taken Kennedy ends up on Carlton.

[CoryB]

^^ Sadly that is exactly what is happening. This giant "no go" zone was stamped in the middle of downtown and the current state of Carlton is a result of that. It also means that Edmonton and Kennedy see a lot less traffic than they would otherwise.

This is the exact type of thinking which is why Winnipeg needs a comprehensive transportation plan in place before it continues to make one off decisions, ie opening Portage and Main to pedestrians. If there is an overall framework in place for how the movement of people is handled more informed decisions can be made. For far too long transportation "planning", included vehicles, transit, cyclists and pedestrians, has basically been slap something up and deal with the consequences later. The state of the road network and the all too common discussion on adding lanes/overpasses/etc and where should rapid transit routes be located is all fallout from that.

[Roger Strong]

Originally Posted by CoryB

... has basically been slap something up and deal with the consequences later.

Admittedly, that's the plan for my pneumatic tube transportation system...

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Originally Posted by Roger Strong

Admittedly, that's the plan for my pneumatic tube transportation system...

[vjose32]

Slowing down traffic to what? It’s already 50 there.

[CoryB]

Just have to say the last little bit has given me some new perspective on the traffic on the Perimeter and the volumes seems crazy on all fronts. The west side, especially between Portage and McGillivray is nuts. The north between Pipeline and Lag had be taking reroutes through the city and the south around St Mary's is bad but pales to the other two. I haven't been over on the east recently to see what it is like near Gunn Rd but last time I was it was just scary.

Pretty much the Perimeter as a whole is nearing a point where something needs to be done and not just on the south from Kennaston to Lag.