When will Canada get a supertall???

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Investcan at UT posted the sales figures.

Wow sounds super legit.

Cal how about this for an exercise.

Given that we know net rents are $19.50 and GLA is 600,000sf how about you show me how that building is worth 88 million??

I honestly really want to see you think about this and explain how that number makes any sense to you.

[caltrane74]

Well, he could have pulled the figure outta his ass like a couple of people here.

I'm pretty sure, he wouldn't have posted those numbers as final sales figures, unless he had some credible inside information.

[LeftCoaster]

Well he might have had inside informaiton, but I can tell you this, he got the numbers backwards.

Anyway if you're game I'd love to see a valuation that makes sense of purchasing an asset that generates annual cashflows of 12 million dollars for only 88 million...

[rbt]

.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Well he might have had inside informaiton, but I can tell you this, he got the numbers backwards.

Anyway if you're game I'd love to see a valuation that makes sense of purchasing an asset that generates annual cashflows of 12 million dollars for only 88 million...

It would depend on the useful life of the building "Senor" MBA. Toronto buildings a lot newer than that piece have shit, have already seen the wrecking ball, or are about to face it.

Once the leases are up, and the discounted value of those future cash flows have been taken into account, that's all this bad boy is worth. Time to say "Bye-Bye" to the old Toronto Star Building, just like Daddy at King and Bay.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by rbt

Is it possible for tax reasons they've purposfully moved most of the price to the vacant land?

Immediate writeoffs against the new development versus lower depreciation on the office.

Well that would be nice unfortunately the taxman is pretty sophisticated these days so wouldn't allow them to do that or else they could just put it all on the land they are about to sell and value the office at nothing.

Originally Posted by caltrane74

It would depend on the useful life of the building "Senor" MBA. Toronto buildings a lot newer than that piece have shit, have already seen the wrecking ball, or are about to face it.

Once the leases are up, and the discounted value of those future cash flows have been taken into account, that's all this bad boy is worth. Time to say "Bye-Bye" to the old Toronto Star Building, just like Daddy at King and Bay.

Honestly Cal if you're not willing to have a grown up conversation about this then I'm not going to keep wasting my time.

For the rest of the fourmers here who actually want to have a constructive discussion about this:
Valuing the building at $88 million is akin to saying that the building will last for 8 more years at 12 million dollars of income then you wouldn't be able to rent it out for free and the land is worth 0 dollars.

Seems kinda stupid right?

Well that's what Caltrane thinks is the most sensible valuation for this property...

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Honestly Cal if you're not willing to have a grown up conversation about this then I'm not going to keep wasting my time.

Oh, com'on, if I wasn't here to play with, who else would you have to kick around?

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

For the rest of the fourmers here who actually want to have a constructive discussion about this:
Valuing the building at $88 million is akin to saying that the building will last for 8 more years at 12 million dollars of income then you wouldn't be able to rent it out for free and the land is worth 0 dollars.

Seems kinda stupid right?

Well that's what Caltrane thinks is the most sensible valuation for this property...

What will happen is, when the leases are up, the building will be destroyed and the property redeveloped. The $88 million covers both the discounted cash flow, and the value of the land below.

[LeftCoaster]

So what you're saying is that the cashflows are worth even less?!?!?

Jesus.

Let me explain it this way:
If the land is worth the same per square foot as the other land (why wouldnt it be?) it should be worth about $150 million as it's square footage is slightly smaller than the adjacent parking lot.

Then what youre saying is that the 88 million dollar office building is worth $150 million except that there is an office building on it generating 12 million dollars a year in proft that makes it worth 60 million dollars less?

That makes so little sense it is mind blowing.

Honestly think this through bud. Its not rocket science. I'm pretty sure a 5 year old could have figured this out by now.

[caltrane74]

Well soon enough well find out if a 5 year old brokered this deal.

If what you're saying is right, then that's exactly what it looks like.

[caltrane74]

It's gonna be ICONIC!!!

Toronto Star office parking lot set to succumb to city’s condo craze

The Toronto Star parking lot is about to become the latest piece of land to succumb to the city’s condominium craze, according to multiple sources.

A deal is expected to close in the coming days that would see Vancouver-based Pinnacle International Realty Group develop the project which is expected to include up to three towers. The existing office tower at One Yonge St., home to the Toronto Star which has a long-term lease for its space, will not be impacted by the development.

“The actual Toronto Star building will not be touched,” said a source close to the deal, who did not want his name used. The newspaper has options which could extend its lease another 20 years.

“I’m sure it will be something iconic,” said a source. “They are planning multiple towers. It will be a major Yonge Street address with great water views.” The revitalization of the waterfront near Yonge has made the area ripe for development, said the source. “Investors are looking for more triple A projects than just run-of-the-mill projects. It makes sense to locate close to transit, close to the subway.”

One industry developer said the land could be worth as much as $70 to $75 per buildable square foot in today’s real estate market. “It’s a big lot, so we are talking very big numbers,” said the developer.
http://business.financialpost.com/20...craze-sources/

[caltrane74]

Hi Andrew Lafluer, where did you get the price of $255M (source?) if that is true then assuming 3 towers at 50 floor each with 10 units at an average of 750sq = 3*50*10*750= 1,125,000 sq or about $225 per sq just in land value, either they plan to build more square footage (i.e. much taller say 100 floor) or as you said this will be
"most lucrative land development deal" but TorStar clearly not for Pinnacle, as it will be way off the $75/sq suggested by this "one industry developer"

[LeftCoaster]

Cal can you please stop spamming the Canada section with this crap.

I understand you are excited but this is a month old newspaper article that has absolutely no new information in it, then you post a comment from the comment section that makes absolutely no sense.

[caltrane74]

Deleted.

[Chadillaccc]

I'm pretty hopeful that the redesign of Herald Square will be a supertall, just as The Bow was originally intended to be.

[caltrane74]

I hope Aura gets 15 extra floors.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Hi Andrew Lafluer, where did you get the price of $255M (source?) if that is true then assuming 3 towers at 50 floor each with 10 units at an average of 750sq = 3*50*10*750= 1,125,000 sq or about $225 per sq just in land value, either they plan to build more square footage (i.e. much taller say 100 floor) or as you said this will be
"most lucrative land development deal" but TorStar clearly not for Pinnacle, as it will be way off the $75/sq suggested by this "one industry developer"

75/sqft * 1.5Msqft (large podium like Maple Leaf Square) is about $115M; the right ballpark for the vacant. Don't forget the $250M sale price includes a $140M office building with it.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I hope Aura gets 15 extra floors.

How awesome would that be!?!

[Surrealplaces]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I'm pretty hopeful that the redesign of Herald Square will be a supertall, just as The Bow was originally intended to be.

I hoping ...not holding my breath though. If there's any chance of Calgary getting a supertall, HS would be that chance.

[TallBob]

Nobody on this forum likes tall buildings more than me, however, unfortunately it isn't gonna happen in Calgary. I wish it would but just won't happen for at least many years down the road. (10-15 years min) Hope I'm wrong

[Chadillaccc]

If you hope you are wrong than why are you speaking in absolutes?