Homicide stats in Canadian Cities - Page 183

suburbanite · #**3641** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 3:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by niwell

That's a good question. Aside from paid duty at construction sites there's a noticeably smaller police presence that's blamed on "funding". For an anecdotal example, a friend of mine who works at a bar called 911 after someone came in and was actively threatening customers. The police didn't even bother showing up for several hours and they were told to file a report online. Because the guy "didn't have a weapon".

I wasn't sure if this was a recent thing, or if I just noticed it, but the number of officers working construction definitely seems high. I swear there was one at York and Wellington a month ago supervising two guys going down a manhole.

Acajack · #**3642** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Tougher punishment is not the answer. It never is. We need to strengthen the social safety net and mental health care systems to ensure that poverty and mental illness, the root causes of all crime, are reduced.

Include in that better and more affordable post-secondary education and training for young people from all income levels.

Even community colleges in Ontario are insanely expensive and likely out of reach for many kids from lower income families. Yes I know that there are loans and scholarships, etc. but that doesn't beat cheap(er) tuition in terms of providing greater access to social mobility.

Learning a trade over a couple of years in a public community college can cost anywhere between 10 to 20 times more in Ontario when compared to the cost in Quebec.

wave46 · #**3643** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Include in that better and more affordable post-secondary education and training for young people from all income levels.

Even community colleges in Ontario are insanely expensive and likely out of reach for many kids from lower income families. Yes I know that there are loans and scholarships, etc. but that doesn't beat cheap(er) tuition in terms of providing greater access to social mobility.

Learning a trade over a couple of years in a public community college can cost anywhere between 10 to 20 times more in Ontario when compared to the cost in Quebec.

I'm aware that university education tuition was significantly cheaper in Quebec - less than half of Ontario, but I'm shocked that a community college program is only 1/10th to 1/20th of Ontario's.

A technical program in an Ontario college might run $4,000-$5,000 per year (without grants). Are the programs in Quebec really $200-$500? That's shockingly low.

begratto · #**3644** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 6:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

I'm aware that university education tuition was significantly cheaper in Quebec - less than half of Ontario, but I'm shocked that a community college program is only 1/10th to 1/20th of Ontario's.

A technical program in an Ontario college might run $4,000-$5,000 per year (without grants). Are the programs in Quebec really $200-$500? That's shockingly low.

Cegep programs are free. Basically you only pay registration /student fees (between $30 and $300, depending on the program and cegep) plus the material you use (between $200 and $600, depending on the program). Average cost for 1st year students (in French) at Cegep Maisonneuve

Djesus777 · #**3645** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto

Cegep programs are free. Basically you only pay registration /student fees (between $30 and $300, depending on the program and cegep) plus the material you use (between $200 and $600, depending on the program). Average cost for 1st year students (in French) at Cegep Maisonneuve

I have family members who go to Dawson (Cegep in MTL for those who don't know) and they pay $170 in fees a semester, tuition is free. They don't buy books though since taking notes are sufficient.

wave46 · #**3646** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by begratto

Cegep programs are free. Basically you only pay registration /student fees (between $30 and $300, depending on the program and cegep) plus the material you use (between $200 and $600, depending on the program). Average cost for 1st year students (in French) at Cegep Maisonneuve

That is a spectacular deal. I also agree with the point that providing a low-cost way for low-income people to 'get ahead' in life via a technical education is probably one of the best yields on a per-dollar basis for improving quality of life.

As a bonus, a gainfully employed person making more money will pay more taxes over the course of their life and use social services much less, probably making it a overall net revenue generator. This seems to be a point lost of many people.

Acajack · #**3647** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:15 PM**

Yeah, I wanted to make sure I wasn't talking out of my hat so I picked a trade off the top of my head, and looked on the page of the organization that certifies electricians in Quebec, and it says that for the college diploma you need, expect to pay about 700 bucks in total over a couple of years for your studies.

Acajack · #**3648** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

That is a spectacular deal. I also agree with the point that providing a low-cost way for low-income people to 'get ahead' in life via a technical education is probably one of the best yields on a per-dollar basis for improving quality of life.

As a bonus, a gainfully employed person making more money will pay more taxes over the course of their life and use social services much less, probably making it a overall net revenue generator. This seems to be a point lost of many people.

Due to the generalized unionization of building trades under (what some call a convoluted and stifling) competency cards system run by the Commission de la construction du Québec, wages for the various trades are also higher in Quebec than most anywhere in the country.

1overcosc · #**3649** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Include in that better and more affordable post-secondary education and training for young people from all income levels.

Even community colleges in Ontario are insanely expensive and likely out of reach for many kids from lower income families. Yes I know that there are loans and scholarships, etc. but that doesn't beat cheap(er) tuition in terms of providing greater access to social mobility.

Learning a trade over a couple of years in a public community college can cost anywhere between 10 to 20 times more in Ontario when compared to the cost in Quebec.

I sometimes wonder what the 2017 reforms to the student loan system in Ontario will do over the long term, assuming they survive the Ford government. They had the effect of creating free tuition for low income people (by creating a means-tested system for replacing loans with grants, which for low income people was sufficient to make tuition free). This did result in an increase in college enrollment among low income people (so much so that the program actually had to get a significant budget boost last year to keep is sustainable).

If this system can survive going forward, I think it will go a long way to easing poverty and crime in the province.

1overcosc · #**3650** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Due to the generalized unionization of building trades under (what some call a convoluted and stifling) competency cards system run by the Commission de la construction du Québec, wages for the various trades are also higher in Quebec than most anywhere in the country.

Which means higher construction costs, though. Not necessarily a good thing.

Acajack · #**3651** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I sometimes wonder what the 2017 reforms to the student loan system in Ontario will do over the long term, assuming they survive the Ford government. They had the effect of creating free tuition for low income people (by creating a means-tested system for replacing loans with grants, which for low income people was sufficient to make tuition free). This did result in an increase in college enrollment among low income people (so much so that the program actually had to get a significant budget boost last year to keep is sustainable).

If this system can survive going forward, I think it will go a long way to easing poverty and crime in the province.

True. I had forgotten about that move by the Wynne Liberals.

Acajack · #**3652** Posted **Jul 4, 2018, 7:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Which means higher construction costs, though. Not necessarily a good thing.

In order to get something you have to give something.

For renos and stuff unrelated to the price of land I guess it ends up costing more, but anything that involves land in the equation will still be cheaper overall than a project in similar surroundings in any of the bigger provinces, given that land (apples to apples) is almost always cheaper in Quebec.

kwoldtimer · #**3653** Posted **Jul 5, 2018, 1:50 PM**

More human remains found at the Toronto property where the dismembered remains of seven other men were found in the McArthur investigation. No word if this means additional victims.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...arch-1.4734659