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  #3541  
Old Posted Nov 26, 2019, 12:09 AM
kool-ski kool-ski is offline
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Ground level pic

I'm curious to how this building looks now at ground level. I don't get to Center City often these days. Does someone have a recent photo or can someone get a pic? I would appreciate it
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  #3542  
Old Posted Nov 28, 2019, 12:05 AM
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NELSON Worldwide said the decorative lights could turn on in Q1 2020. Maybe for the grand opening?
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  #3543  
Old Posted Dec 2, 2019, 4:40 PM
PHLJD13 PHLJD13 is offline
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Websites for both hotel brands have opening pushed back to June 2020, so still some time to go on this one.
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  #3544  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 9:44 PM
japmes japmes is offline
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Websites for both hotel brands have opening pushed back to June 2020, so still some time to go on this one.
So this will end up around 5 years for construction. Is that right?
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  #3545  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 9:47 PM
PhillyDreamsReturns PhillyDreamsReturns is offline
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I work directly across the street from the W on the 14th floor. We've been joking here how we hardly see any construction workers on site any given day. Today we noticed two workers building the frame around the pool, and the lights are now on in most floors, but they don't look close to being done. I'd say they're 6 months out at the least.
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  #3546  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 11:25 PM
eixample eixample is offline
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Are the sidewalks open on Chestnut and 15th? I haven't been over there recently, but that development has really been a kick in the teeth for pedestrians who have to use that area -- especially since every stage of this has moved so slowly. I recall Kenney coming into office saying he was going to work to protect pedestrian access through construction sites, but I don't think we've seen anything on that in his first term.
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  #3547  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PhillyDreamsReturns View Post
I work directly across the street from the W on the 14th floor. We've been joking here how we hardly see any construction workers on site any given day. Today we noticed two workers building the frame around the pool, and the lights are now on in most floors, but they don't look close to being done. I'd say they're 6 months out at the least.
Are you in the Land Title Building? I'm on the 22nd floor.
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  #3548  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 1:53 AM
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  #3549  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 1:20 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
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So this will end up around 5 years for construction. Is that right?
More, digging started in 2014 if I'm not mistaken.
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  #3550  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 1:22 PM
cardeza cardeza is offline
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
Are the sidewalks open on Chestnut and 15th? I haven't been over there recently, but that development has really been a kick in the teeth for pedestrians who have to use that area -- especially since every stage of this has moved so slowly. I recall Kenney coming into office saying he was going to work to protect pedestrian access through construction sites, but I don't think we've seen anything on that in his first term.
You cannot force existing permitees to change their sidewalk closures if the law didnt exist at time of issuance. They have changed rules and costs for closures- but this predates all that. There have been recently projects (FDP for example) that have had extensive work done to channel pedestrians into protected cattle chutes during construction. East Market is another example.
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  #3551  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 3:58 PM
PhillyDreamsReturns PhillyDreamsReturns is offline
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Are you in the Land Title Building? I'm on the 22nd floor.
I'm in the Graham Building.

Also, for the sidewalks, it's completely closed down surrounding the building, which is creating a very congested sidewalk across the street.
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  #3552  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 5:46 PM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
Are the sidewalks open on Chestnut and 15th? I haven't been over there recently, but that development has really been a kick in the teeth for pedestrians who have to use that area -- especially since every stage of this has moved so slowly. I recall Kenney coming into office saying he was going to work to protect pedestrian access through construction sites, but I don't think we've seen anything on that in his first term.
Yeah they are still closed. And there are the big orange plastic bollards blocking access at the NW and SE corner of the intersection. They are completely covered in graffiti and filth and used as a cupholder and backrest for panhandlers. This intersection is a disaster zone. Open the f'ing sidewalk already BLENFEST.
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  #3553  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 5:55 PM
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Why didn't they put scaffolding and a roof over it so that sidewalks weren't closed to pedestrians? Did they actually need the sidewalks for staging equipment early on, but after equipment was removed, kept it closed without real justification? And is there any current work being done at the base of the building to warrant further closure.
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  #3554  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 6:03 PM
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Why didn't they put scaffolding and a roof over it so that sidewalks weren't closed to pedestrians? Did they actually need the sidewalks for staging equipment early on, but after equipment was removed, kept it closed without real justification? And is there any current work being done at the base of the building to warrant further closure.
I dunno. Yes. Yes. Not really.

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You cannot force existing permitees to change their sidewalk closures if the law didnt exist at time of issuance. They have changed rules and costs for closures- but this predates all that. There have been recently projects (FDP for example) that have had extensive work done to channel pedestrians into protected cattle chutes during construction. East Market is another example.
Then explain how the entire perimeter of the Laurel project (which just started a few months ago) - including crazy busy pedestrian sections like Walnut Street, Sansom, and 20th Street - are completely closed to pedestrian access?
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  #3555  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 6:58 PM
City Wide City Wide is offline
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Originally Posted by eixample View Post
Are the sidewalks open on Chestnut and 15th? I haven't been over there recently, but that development has really been a kick in the teeth for pedestrians who have to use that area -- especially since every stage of this has moved so slowly. I recall Kenney coming into office saying he was going to work to protect pedestrian access through construction sites, but I don't think we've seen anything on that in his first term.
There were hearings last year about a City bill authored by Helen Gym that wanted to make sidewalk closings hard to get and much more expensive and I don't know what has happened, if anything, to that bill. The build trades council and some developers spoke against the bill saying it would drive the cost of construction up.

I think this sidewalk issue points out an interesting dynamic that takes place on this forum, most posters are pro development (build it!!!) and sing the blues about red tape and some requirements that make building in Philly more expensive, but then also want to have safety standards tightly enforced and are often for adding more requirements, like open access to sidewalks (if NYC can do it, why can't we?).

The problem is how to have a bill that covers 15th & Chestnut where sidewalk access is dearly needed but not cover other areas where its not such a big deal. The devil is in the details. What about out at 23th & Market, are the sidewalks important out there? And since most new laws don't include a sunset provision once they are passed we are stuck with them.
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  #3556  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 7:34 PM
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The problem is how to have a bill that covers 15th & Chestnut where sidewalk access is dearly needed but not cover other areas where its not such a big deal. The devil is in the details. What about out at 23th & Market, are the sidewalks important out there? And since most new laws don't include a sunset provision once they are passed we are stuck with them.
Why not tie it to the zoning? I don't think the correlation between size of a building and the need for a space to be walk-able is that big of a stretch. The potential next few phases of the CHoP towers in Devils Pocket and some Delaware facing developments could be outliers, but for the most part it should hold true that bigger buildings in Philadelphia are built in places with high density and a greater need for walk-ability. If it increases the cost of construction (and I would assume this would be a fairly fixed cost although I honestly have no knowledge of these kinds of costs), then wouldn't that give developers more incentive to build UP and add more floors and recoup the difference?
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  #3557  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 9:02 PM
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Sorry to interrupt the sidewalk talk, but here's more visuals of the lighting



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Last edited by TK2001; Dec 7, 2019 at 5:49 AM.
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  #3558  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2019, 3:03 AM
eixample eixample is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
There were hearings last year about a City bill authored by Helen Gym that wanted to make sidewalk closings hard to get and much more expensive and I don't know what has happened, if anything, to that bill. The build trades council and some developers spoke against the bill saying it would drive the cost of construction up.

I think this sidewalk issue points out an interesting dynamic that takes place on this forum, most posters are pro development (build it!!!) and sing the blues about red tape and some requirements that make building in Philly more expensive, but then also want to have safety standards tightly enforced and are often for adding more requirements, like open access to sidewalks (if NYC can do it, why can't we?).

The problem is how to have a bill that covers 15th & Chestnut where sidewalk access is dearly needed but not cover other areas where its not such a big deal. The devil is in the details. What about out at 23th & Market, are the sidewalks important out there? And since most new laws don't include a sunset provision once they are passed we are stuck with them.
You are tight about the tension between "build it" and concerns of safety/pedestrian access. I am sure I take contradictory points of view on here all the time (or at least have contradictory thoughts since I'm not a super frequent poster). However, I am always dubious about claims of "red tape making it impossible to build" by contractors in the case of pedestrian access when I think it is often convenience rather than expense (ie they want to close the sidewalks so they can park their cars there), laziness (how often do we see sidewalks blocked for construction when there hasn't been a worker on site for weeks?), lack of forethought, or failure to think outside the box. I realize some sites are really complex like the W, but I know that they could handle it somewhat better.

I will say that the issue is almost as big outside of center city as in it -- sidewalks are important everywhere people go so I am not sure that should be the main determining factor. This arises constantly "in the neighborhoods" and is one of those minor quality of life issues that add up to make the city so much less liveable than it could be. Often, for example, pedestrian access can be maintained simply by moving the pedestrian right of way into a parking lane, but that step is skipped. The city's utter failure to police overzealous sidewalk cafes is another utterly fixable problem in the same vein that the city seems to have no interest in addressing.
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  #3559  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2019, 5:50 AM
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  #3560  
Old Posted Dec 7, 2019, 2:52 PM
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Nice simulation, TK? I wish they would of ran the glass all the way up. It looks unfinished without it.
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