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  #101  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:01 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is offline
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
thank you for your informed opinion.

you actually lived in all 3 cities. i don't imagine there are many people who can make that claim.

your opinion is worth FAR more than the other yahoos in this thread mostly talking out of their ass.
I've lived in 2 out of 3

Not LA, though...
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  #102  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:04 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
I've lived in 2 out of 3
oh yeah, you can find LOADS of people who've live in 2 of the 3, but all 3 would be much more rare, as that's a more unusual regional spread than your typical person makes in life.
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  #103  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:11 PM
Chisouthside Chisouthside is online now
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I can also imagine 9-11 also making alot of blue collar/city worker whites in the NYC more jingoistically conservative.
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  #104  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:13 PM
IrishIllini IrishIllini is offline
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I don’t necessarily agree LA is more liberal than either NYC or Chicago. More voters in LA and Chicago may have voted for Clinton than in NYC, but that may just be because Trump is from NYC. LA is heavily Latino and Latinos tend to be astute Catholics, which aren’t a very liberal bunch. The community in LA be more secular these days, but I’d suspect it trails NYC and Chicago in that regard. The GOP has alienated most minority voters and has recently been particularly vitriolic towards Latino immigrants. I’d suspect that pushes a lot of them to vote democratic despite having traditionally conservative “family values” or beliefs.
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  #105  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:26 PM
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What?

LA Latinos voting democratic isn't a recent thing. You might be getting them mixed up Florida Cubans or something. Anyway, LA's massive creative population is very liberal, and always has been.
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  #106  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:26 PM
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I could only speak as a random tourist. I've visited NY and LA, and only saw O'Hare in Chicago, cause there was a stop there on my way to SF from Paris.

I have no idea what town is the most conservative or liberal or libertarian or whatever.
There are rich and poor people everywhere over there anyway.
And this is all we know about:

1 - the rich usually don't want things to change too much, so they remain the better off in society.

2 - the poor are pissed off, upset. They downright want a revolution, so they can kick the rich butts and replace them.

And 3 - the so called middle class that hardly cares about the mess. They just want to raise their kids in a decent condition.

That's all. You've got 1, 2 and 3 everywhere in what is still called the developed world.

Generally speaking, it seems very touristy places tend to grow motionless, because tourists want to see quaint local things. And tourism is big business these days. I'm from Paris, I can tell. I suspect they're going to face some bad difficulties in NYC as well in that respect.
This may well be an advantage to Chicago in a longer run, cause it's not been so touristy yet.
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  #107  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:36 PM
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Chicago seems very establishment liberal not progressive liberal.

I don't know anything about how liberal NYC is but they seem to have the most conservative/racist Italian community in the country.
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  #108  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishIllini View Post
I don’t necessarily agree LA is more liberal than either NYC or Chicago. More voters in LA and Chicago may have voted for Clinton than in NYC, but that may just be because Trump is from NYC. LA is heavily Latino and Latinos tend to be astute Catholics, which aren’t a very liberal bunch. The community in LA be more secular these days, but I’d suspect it trails NYC and Chicago in that regard. The GOP has alienated most minority voters and has recently been particularly vitriolic towards Latino immigrants. I’d suspect that pushes a lot of them to vote democratic despite having traditionally conservative “family values” or beliefs.
I don't necessarily agree with your assessment of LA, Latinos, or Catholics.

Traditionally, Catholics in the US have actually been the more liberal group compared with Protestants. A lot of them got involved in civil rights issues, social justice issues, and labor issues/workers' rights. Catholics were a persecuted group in the US historically after all, yet that doesn't seem to really be talked about in US history classes. A lot of the discrimination Polish and Irish immigrants went through in the US during the 1800s was not only because of their ethnicity, but a lot of it also had to do with the fact that they were Catholic. Where conservative Catholics today would have issues with are gay marriage and abortion, which not surprisingly, the Catholic church doesn't support. But many if not most Catholics in the US are for marriage equality and are pro-choice.

Not all Latinos are Catholic; it's been my experience that the conservative ones tend to be Evangelical Protestant/Born Agains, and Jehovah's Witnesses. Those seem to be the ones who kick their kids out of the house for being an unwed teen mother or being a gay son. The Latino Catholic families I know seem to be more forgiving or accepting of their gay son or daughter who is an unwed teen mother.

There are conservatives in LA, and many of them tend to be in some of the wealthier suburbs of LA County, like the Palos Verdes Peninsula and San Marino. But San Marino is changing because its demographics have been changing; it's far less white and maybe even less Christian than it's been owing to Chinese immigrants that have been moving there (but then it seems a lot of Chinese have been converting to Evangelical Protestantism, no doubt because of missionaries and possibly the desire to feel assimilated into the US).

Other wealthy enclaves in LA/LA County tend to be more liberal or progressive.
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  #109  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 6:37 PM
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I’m not implying LA Latinos are recently voting for democrats and I understand white Catholics have been reliably democratic, but there are cultural differences between those groups and Latinos tend to be more conservative. I’ll leave it at I don’t see any major political differences between NYC, LA, or Chicago. All three are among the most progressive parts of the country.
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  #110  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 7:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Chisouthside View Post
I can also imagine 9-11 also making alot of blue collar/city worker whites in the NYC more jingoistically conservative.
Oh, yes.

A lot of whites in the NYC area/suburbs have become more conservative.

That's why the Northeast trended Republican in 2004 and 2016.

McCain and Romney were not good candidates in the Northeast, Obama turned out a lot of minorities to vote for him in 2008 and 2012.
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  #111  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 9:06 PM
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From I can guess, they all have their conservative sides.

NYC has been historically centrist with its own brand of Republicans, Democrats, and even Independents like Bloomberg. Some neighborhoods are liberal as can be like Greenwich, Tribeca, and other more gentrified areas. Some neighborhoods are also conservative, but not like Southern conservatism. The Orthodox Jewish communities are an example of this. But, until very recently, the city still functioned well with people who held slightly different political beliefs. However, that’s how I saw it appeared.

LA at one point was pretty conservative overall throughout the 20th century until the last few decades in which the pendulum shifted to more liberal means. However, I still see the conservatism here in bits in pieces. Like NYC, it isn’t as bad as Southern conservatism, but it’s there in the outer counties like Riverside and San Bernardino. Latinos, like many have stated, are conservative on many things due to culture and religion. However, they are liberal in other ways, especially the younger generation. A similar thing can be said about Miami


I don’t know about Chicago, but I guess it wouldn’t be that different. All three cities were historically ( and still largely are ) cosmopolitan centers where both conservative and liberal values coexist on a moderate level due to immigrant ethnic communities being alongside communities of Americans from other areas of the country. When you have that many different types of people under one roof, a more middle way is needed to have them all be involved and mostly get along with one another.
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  #112  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 9:24 PM
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^California had a Republican governor as recently as 2011. From 1983 to 2011, there was one Democrat Governor and he was recalled.
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  #113  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 9:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Sun Belt View Post
^California had a Republican governor as recently as 2011. From 1983 to 2011, there was one Democrat Governor and he was recalled.
That means little.

Illinois had a Republican Governor until 2018, but that doesn't change the fact that Chicago is, unfortunately, a one party machine town.
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  #114  
Old Posted Sep 9, 2019, 9:33 PM
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
That means little.

Illinois had a Republican Governor until 2018, but that doesn't change the fact that Chicago is, unfortunately, a one party machine town.
I wouldn't say it means little.

Since 2011, California went hard left and I do mean HARD. It used to be rather centrist for Pete's Sake. It's the Land of Reagan [sort of, he wasn't born heeah, born in the Land of Lincoln! Lol].
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  #115  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 2:11 AM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post

I don't know anything about how liberal NYC is but they seem to have the most conservative/racist Italian community in the country.
There is a certain subset of Italian Americans in a lot of old, northern cities that seems to be rather oddly right wing-y and racist.

You could likely say this about Irish Americans (the racist part, at least) as well, but maybe the Italian American subset is just more outspoken about it?
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  #116  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 2:19 AM
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I know the Irish in New York were historically racist due to having to compete with freed African Americans for jobs in the mid to late 19th century. The Italians who came during the Great Migration also felt the same way.
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  #117  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 5:23 PM
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NYC is closet conservative. Too much money
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  #118  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 6:13 PM
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
NYC is closet conservative. Too much money
ha yes.

at least in manhattan, the rich love having the the poor around, if at arms length, because they are exotic and can be pitied.

and they hate the middle class because being america and nyc being such as driver of people up the ses scale to wealth, the middle class reminds many of the wealthy people way too much of where they came from.


j/k of course, but who knows there may be something to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The North One View Post

I don't know anything about how liberal NYC is but they seem to have the most conservative/racist Italian community in the country.

now yes there is certainly something to that if you look at how the very italian neighborhoods like throggs neck and staten island went for trump.
then again, italian? its like 8% of nyc, so i dk if that reflects anything about the whole city.
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  #119  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 7:07 PM
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Originally Posted by maru2501 View Post
NYC is closet conservative. Too much money
Yeah lets not forget people like Trump are born and bred New Yorkers and there's plenty more of him over there.

I also wonder if Chicago and LA have any or as large extreme conservative communities like New York's Hasidic Jews.
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  #120  
Old Posted Sep 10, 2019, 7:36 PM
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New York is socially egalitarian, and fiscally libertarian. I think this is broadly true of people who live here, regardless of political affiliation. For 20 of the past 25 years, the mayor's office has been occupied by either a Republican, or Republican turned independent. But a New York mayor of any political party is careful not to seem xenophobic, and also careful not to appear fiscally irresponsible.

I can't really speak on this relative to L.A. or Chicago. But New York isn't as one-sided liberal as Fox News would have you believe.
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