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  #61  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2019, 6:03 PM
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Aaamazarite Aaamazarite is offline
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Originally Posted by Londonee View Post

i mean...they also own (or are in partnership with) what's now the most conspicuous lot in Center City - the lot 80ft off Rittenhouse Square at 20th/Walnut. Almost across the street from the Laurel...
They don't own that lot, just manage it. It's owned by a real estate group that never sells anything and I doubt they need the money. If it ever sells, Parkway will probably buy it. Usually when parkway manages a lot and it comes up for sale, they find a way to be the buyers. Found this out the hard way, unfortunately.
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  #62  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 1:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Aaamazarite View Post
They don't own that lot, just manage it. It's owned by a real estate group that never sells anything and I doubt they need the money. If it ever sells, Parkway will probably buy it. Usually when parkway manages a lot and it comes up for sale, they find a way to be the buyers. Found this out the hard way, unfortunately.
Why do these owners want to leave this as a service lot? They could make a lot more money by selling or partnering with someone and developing it. Not that I want to see a garage here, but even a multi-story garage would make more sense. This is a prime example on whey we need tax reform to make it unprofitable to run a surface parking lot on valuable land and prime real estate. More of a land-based tax. Or up the tax on surface lots to more than 22% of gross receipts if the value of the parcel exceeds a certain value.
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  #63  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 1:14 AM
Londonee Londonee is offline
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Originally Posted by Aaamazarite View Post
They don't own that lot, just manage it. It's owned by a real estate group that never sells anything and I doubt they need the money. If it ever sells, Parkway will probably buy it. Usually when parkway manages a lot and it comes up for sale, they find a way to be the buyers. Found this out the hard way, unfortunately.
Good info, thanks. I included (in partnership with) b/c i vaguely remember that story. It's a shame the city can't do something to push this along...like create the "Rittenhouse Square improvement tax" and mark a few lots up that fall within a designated "zone." I'm sure that's possibly illegal to do. What do other city's do in this context (my gut is Philly is the last place to have a progressive incentive package for lots like this)?
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  #64  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 4:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jsbrook View Post
Why do these owners want to leave this as a service lot? They could make a lot more money by selling or partnering with someone and developing it. Not that I want to see a garage here, but even a multi-story garage would make more sense. This is a prime example on whey we need tax reform to make it unprofitable to run a surface parking lot on valuable land and prime real estate. More of a land-based tax. Or up the tax on surface lots to more than 22% of gross receipts if the value of the parcel exceeds a certain value.
In theory, yes they would make a lot more money partnering, developing, or even selling it. However that would mean they would have to get off their butts and do something-- these owners barely maintain the many many valuable apartment holdings they have.

There has already been some tax reform that has helped push surface parking owners to sell/develop-- the change in land's proportion in property taxes and the stormwater charge being the most recent. The big companies just started charging more to make up for it. One infamous parking lot owner once told me that 20 years ago he profited like .85 per dollar spent by his parking customers, and now it's like .50 per dollar.
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  #65  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 10:09 PM
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A year ago or so the owner? of Parkway in a interview said something like you can't make money in parking any more, that real estate development was the forward for his company (easy to say when you own all those lots). He mentioned the increase in the City's parking tax and less demand as his basis for his statement. I can think of 3 garages that have been torn down with a couple more planned and maybe 5 or more lots then have been built on, and apparently theres still an excess of spots. Hopefully that isn't a indication of less interest in CC. In any case the lot the I can't figure out is at 17th and Pine; any type residential built in that area would bring in piles of cash.
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  #66  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2019, 10:19 PM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
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Originally Posted by City Wide View Post
A year ago or so the owner? of Parkway in a interview said something like you can't make money in parking any more, that real estate development was the forward for his company (easy to say when you own all those lots). He mentioned the increase in the City's parking tax and less demand as his basis for his statement. I can think of 3 garages that have been torn down with a couple more planned and maybe 5 or more lots then have been built on, and apparently theres still an excess of spots. Hopefully that isn't a indication of less interest in CC. In any case the lot the I can't figure out is at 17th and Pine; any type residential built in that area would bring in piles of cash.
I remember that article. I wanted to scream when I read it.

It has almost nothing to do with the parking tax and everything to do with ride sharing services.

Most people simply don't want to deal with the hassle of driving in and out of the city anymore, especially if there is any chance that they'll be drinking. You can get to Center City from most points on the Main Line, Delaware, Montgomery and Lower Bucks for less than $40 each way via uber etc. If you're splitting it with 1 or 2 people, it's even cheaper...and far less money than a DUI, especially considering you're not paying the $30 to park in the garage for the night.
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  #67  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 4:23 PM
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Parkway Corp. buys 7-Eleven site on Market Street block eyed for new tower

https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...et-street.html

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Parkway Corp. has purchased a building housing a 7-Eleven at 2200-2202 Market St., a sliver of a parcel that adds to the other portions of the Center City block that the company already owns.

Parkway paid 2200 Market Street Associates $4.75 million for the 3,456-square-foot corner property.

With the acquisition of the building that houses the 7-Eleven, Parkway now owns most of that block including a surface lot and the structure housing a Chinese restaurant called Golden Lake at 2206 Market St.

There is a holdout to Parkway controlling the entire block.

The owner of the building housing Liberty Bar & Grill at 2204 Market St. has decided not to sell to the real estate company. The land area totals 912 square feet and a structure on it totals 2,160 square feet, according to Philadelphia property records. Nicholas Pananos, the owner listed on property records, couldn’t be reached for comment.

“We could never get anywhere close to a deal on the small bar,” said Rob Zuritsky, CEO of Parkway Corp. “So, they won and will have that bar forever.”

Parkway is in the early stages of planning to develop a 308,000-square-foot office building at what is being referred to as 2222 Market St. for Morgan Lewis, a Philadelphia law firm. The project would rise on most of the site. The Chinese restaurant will be razed to make way for the office building, which would also be built upon the surface parking lot. Though the 7-Eleven won’t be part of the development, Parkway felt it was better the company owned it, Zuritsky said.

Earlier this year, Morgan Lewis said it was working on negotiations with Parkway on the development of the new office building at 2222 Market.

"As we maintain a constant focus on client service, we believe this new development will provide creative space design infused with cutting-edge technology that will increase collaboration and operational efficiencies,” the law firm said at the time.

The location is on the western edge of the Central Business District and is an area of the city getting more interest from developers and office tenants. That activity is helping to close the gap between Center City and University City.

Most recently, Brandywine Realty Trust proposed a 23-story mixed-use project at 2120 Market St. that would total 533,000 square feet of which 326,000 square feet would be office space. The remainder would be filled by 147 residential units and retail space. Erdy McHenry is the architect. Brandywine will begin construction once it secures a certain amount of office leasing.

PMC Property Group has two residential projects under development in that part of the city. One project at 60 N. 23rd St. will have 291 apartments and a second tower with 321 apartments will be built at 2301 John F. Kennedy Blvd. Aramark Corp. relocated its headquarters to 2400 Market St. That building also houses the Fitler Club, a lifestyle club that has a range of amenities including dining, coworking, fitness and overnight rooms.
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  #68  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 4:41 PM
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Wild^ who ever owns that dive bar was probably offered a couple mil ... and said, Nope!
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  #69  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 5:00 PM
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That bar owner's a jackass lol. I know for a fact Parkway offered him $2M for that bar property. Now, he just guaranteed himself he'll never get more than $600K for it. Congrats dude!
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  #70  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 5:04 PM
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Nice. I was walking by this with my family the other day, and we were remarking how incongruous these structures would be with the new tower. The 3 parcels collectively would have made for a nice midrise replacement. Seems like Parkway can't build much with the bar in between, but I guess they can renovate the structures and bring in new tenants. I bet the descendants of the bar owners will eventually sell it. Unless it's prohibited in a will or something or such a strong position by the owners that the next generation respects their wishes once they are gone.
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  #71  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 5:07 PM
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^
Market St. on the up and up. Are people really going to patronage a dive bar? Unless the owner plans to upgrade the appearances and cash in on the new folks in the neighborhood, or don't care (probably the latter), then it is what it is...

Last edited by iheartphilly; Dec 19, 2019 at 6:56 PM.
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  #72  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 6:16 PM
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Why?

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Originally Posted by summersm343 View Post
That bar owner's a jackass lol. I know for a fact Parkway offered him $2M for that bar property. Now, he just guaranteed himself he'll never get more than $600K for it. Congrats dude!
Just curious, why do you think he will never get more than 600k? If the area appreciates due to the tower/development couldn't he sell it in the future for more? Also he still has air rights over his building correct? So he could theoretically build taller, or sell to someone who could build taller in the future right?

Also, why the hate for dive bars from others? Last I checked there are still quite a few dive bars in Center City still.
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  #73  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 6:24 PM
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Also, why the hate for dive bars from others? Last I checked there are still quite a few dive bars in Center City still.
Just for the record, I love dives.

This one doesn't really even have that special divey-early 70s, authentic vibe like Oscar's, for example. It's just blah. IMO, turning down $2 mil for that place is crazy.
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  #74  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 6:33 PM
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The existing renderings do show the dive building there so I am hoping it won't effect the design. Or, perhaps they were looking to expand the design.

2222 Market Street
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  #75  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 6:53 PM
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I think it's great the bar owner turned them down, one of my favorite things about philly is seeing the old low rise buildings right next to modern high rise buildings.
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  #76  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by el don View Post
Just curious, why do you think he will never get more than 600k? If the area appreciates due to the tower/development couldn't he sell it in the future for more? Also he still has air rights over his building correct? So he could theoretically build taller, or sell to someone who could build taller in the future right?

Also, why the hate for dive bars from others? Last I checked there are still quite a few dive bars in Center City still.
Parkway's offer was $2 million because they own the two parcels on either side and could have done something complementary to the big development if they could get all 3. Just the bar parcel is a very tiny lot. Any potential buyer that isn't Parkway and doesn't own the adjacent parcels can't do much with it. It will not be worth much more than $600K in the foreseeable future unless he sells to Parkway and they are still interested. Or there is another buyer that also want the two remaining parcels that Parkway owns to do a larger project and who buys all 3.

I don't personally hate dive bars at all. I generally like them (I don't really consider this one; it's just a dinky bar, but it's fine). I do think another development with the two adjoining parcels would have made sense here.
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  #77  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 7:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry King View Post
I think it's great the bar owner turned them down, one of my favorite things about philly is seeing the old low rise buildings right next to modern high rise buildings.
I generally enjoy this too. It works really well on places like Walnut. Just not really feeling the vibe of these 3 next to that tower render.
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  #78  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 8:15 PM
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I generally enjoy this too. It works really well on places like Walnut. Just not really feeling the vibe of these 3 next to that tower render.
I agree to an extent but regardless, it’s a 19th Century building whose exterior is in good shape that won’t meet the wrecking ball.

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  #79  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2019, 8:16 PM
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I think it's great the bar owner turned them down, one of my favorite things about philly is seeing the old low rise buildings right next to modern high rise buildings.
+1

This forum is so weird.
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  #80  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2019, 4:06 AM
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Originally Posted by el don View Post
Just curious, why do you think he will never get more than 600k? If the area appreciates due to the tower/development couldn't he sell it in the future for more? Also he still has air rights over his building correct? So he could theoretically build taller, or sell to someone who could build taller in the future right?

Also, why the hate for dive bars from others? Last I checked there are still quite a few dive bars in Center City still.
If the lot size is 912 sq.ft. the owner would lucky to be about to get 5 stories built there.
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